SDA-2B-TL & Recap Completed

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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    Still think you can beat 'em with a grand?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    These speakers are VERY different than they were yesterday.

    I just love when things open up as they break in. Like I said a few posts ago, it amazes me that people think break in is psycho babble. I'm at the point now where I won't evaluate a piece of chewing gum unless I've chewed it at least 200 times :tongue:
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    Still think you can beat 'em with a grand?

    My Magnepan 1.7's ($2,200) don't even come close.

    For the record, I take back ever saying that. I just spent 2 hours listening and not believing my ears. I don't know what to think today. I might be going crazy.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,590
    edited June 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    My Magnepan 1.7's ($2,200) don't even come close.

    I would be glad to take those off your hands free of charge :)
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    I still believe I could find some technically better speakers under a $1000.

    So this statment no longer applies?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    So this statment no longer applies?

    H9

    Correct. The change was is so dramatic from 2 days ago, I don't know what to think. Everything seems balanced, sweet, full. Wow. I'm a very happy camper. I hope nothing else fluctuates!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    My Magnepan 1.7's ($2,200) don't even come close.

    For the record, I take back ever saying that. I just spent 2 hours listening and not believing my ears. I don't know what to think today. I might be going crazy.

    Welcome to Club Polk.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    Depending on the hours it may revert back to worse for a day or two and then settle in even better than now. It's everything we told you it would be, right? :biggrin:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    Welcome to Club Polk.

    :redface:
    :biggrin:
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    Correct. The change was is so dramatic from 2 days ago, I don't know what to think. Everything seems balanced, sweet, full. Wow. I'm a very happy camper. I hope nothing else fluctuates!

    I take it you're a big believer in break in, huh?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Depending on the hours it may revert back to worse for a day or two and then settle in even better than now. It's everything we told you it would be, right? :biggrin:

    H9

    Yes, Brock has has a good point. They can close up a bit during break in and then open up again. In my experience with Sonicaps, 200 hours is the point where you won't see them regress any more, and they'll get a bit more refined between the 200-300 hour point. At 300 hours you are definitely good to go.

    Best thing to do is crank them up, leave for vacation, and piss your neighbors off...
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Depending on the hours it may revert back to worse for a day or two and then settle in even better than now. It's everything we told you it would be, right? :biggrin:

    H9

    YES. This little journey has taught me a lot.

    Have I said thank you all for the help yet? Thank you

    I don't want anything to change! I have about 3 weeks on them. I hope they're done :eek:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    I would say the major change is over. As Neil said, you may notice a bit more refinement, but at 3 weeks of normal to intensive listening you are probably about there. I assume you have been listening daily.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited June 2011
    congrats-- the most "trying" crossover upgrade I did was with a pair of 2.3's,, and just about the time I was gonna go "back in",they settled in,, is's a roller coaster ride for sure.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    congrats-- the most "trying" crossover upgrade I did was with a pair of 2.3's,, and just about the time I was gonna go "back in",they settled in,, is's a roller coaster ride for sure.

    I was really leaning towards the camp that says burn in is more about the listener than the electronics. Now I don't know what to think. I'm positive things are different. Subtle? Well if going from fatiguing and shrill to not fatiguing and silky smooth is subtle, than yea.

    I keep doubting my ears and thinking it has something to do with my mood, but it's so clearly BETTER than ever today that now, I'm doubting my doubts LOL.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    By the way, what are you using for an SDA cable? The original stock cable? You should know that the 2B's, with the pin/blade configuration of the SDA cable, only us a single conductor in that connector. The pin is the live wire, the blade is there only to keep the connection tight. Many of us have replaced the stock SDA connector on the crossover with a speaker binding post, which allows you to use any kind of speaker wire instead of the stock cable. Using a decent speaker wire helps a lot - much better imaging, for one. Add that to your list of things to do when you do your second round of mods to those 2B's. You need to do rings, dynamat, and a custom sda connector now :cool:
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    By the way, what are you using for an SDA cable? The original stock cable? You should know that the 2B's, with the pin/blade configuration of the SDA cable, only us a single conductor in that connector. The pin is the live wire, the blade is there only to keep the connection tight. Many of us have replaced the stock SDA connector on the crossover with a speaker binding post, which allows you to use any kind of speaker wire instead of the stock cable. Using a decent speaker wire helps a lot - much better imaging, for one. Add that to your list of things to do when you do your second round of mods to those 2B's. You need to do rings, dynamat, and a custom sda connector now :cool:

    I see I see. I have done the Dynamat (and JB weld) already, rings are probably next. Does the pin/blade to binding post mod require any drilling? I'm thinking some Canare 4S11 for all of my speaker cable would be sweet.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    Ah you did the Dynamat. Good man, I still need to do mine. Yes, you'd drill a single hole in each of the plastic crossover mounts for the extra speaker post. Check out the photo in post 20 of my 2B thread:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62106

    This is a really good mod. Remember - the speaker cable you'll use will need some time to break-in, I'm sure you remember how important break-in is :wink:
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    My post has a link to DK's thread on this, you should read it, he is the master:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30467
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    Ah you did the Dynamat. Good man, I still need to do mine. Yes, you'd drill a single hole in each of the plastic crossover mounts for the extra speaker post. Check out the photo in post 20 of my 2B thread:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62106

    This is a really good mod. Remember - the speaker cable you'll use will need some time to break-in, I'm sure you remember how important break-in is :wink:

    :biggrin:

    Thanks man. I might save this for the summer.

    I'm glad to report that I'm all smiles again today. I've finally found what I'm looking for. These speakers have played every genre I've thrown at them. I even through some Jay Z at them this morning and they played sooooo nicely. I then popped in some Jimi Hendrix - Band of Gypsys and was so pleasantly surprised. Speakers that can play the blues and keep the electric guitar thick and warm is something hard to find.

    Every single song I play sounds incredible. Everything is drawing me in unlike any speaker or system I have EVER owned or heard. EVER. Period. The ability to draw me in was the absolute priority in every system I've ever built. This system combination is literally pulling emotions out of me. I'm playing songs that I LOVE too, not a McIntosh Audiophile test CD. All of my music is hitting me, I've never had a system that can do this. And by the way, it's doing this to me OUTSIDE of the sweet spot, at my desk, which is unbelievable.

    This is my system:

    PC > Streaming to PS3 via PS3 Media Server > PS3 to Emotiva XDA-1 via Glass Toslink > XDA-1 to Marantz 2245 via Blue Jeans Cable > Marantz to SDA-2B TL's via Canare 4S11> Me Smiling over and over again...

    I'm not using the XDA-1 as a preamp anymore. It was just cold in my opinion, but still amazingly refined and is absolutely a big part of the success of this system. XDA-1 is going to the Marantz Aux input. So the Marantz is the preamp and amp right now (obviously). The Carver TFM-45 will be done next week. I spoke to the owner of the repair shop I have it at and he guarantees it will be working and sounding beautifully when it gets home.

    I really doubt the Carver can add anything to my system right now. I could not ask for anything more. It is finished. My glass is full and overflowing already.

    On top of the Carver TFM-45 coming in, the Emotiva XPA-2 (300wpc @ 8ohms) that will be here either later this month or first week of July. One of them will be sold to cover some of the costs of buying them!

    What are my thoughts on why I'm getting what I'm getting now? On top of believing that the crossovers have finally settled in, the XDA-1 and the Marantz 2245 are unbelievable. The Marantz isn't going anywhere, it will act as preamp once the new amps get in.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    I have to say SDA's are absolutely fantastic with live recorded music. I listen to a lot of live stuff and the SDA's accel with live material better than any speaker I have heard. Not surprising BOG sounded so good. Of course the live material has to be recorded well.

    I listen of some of my favorite material on my 1C's and it makes the back of my hair stand up sometimes I'm so drawn in.

    The Carver will stomp that Marantz, but you really, really need a good pre-amp to get the most benefit. I know the rep of the Marantz as a receiver, but separates are whole other level. That vintage stuff never lives up to a really good set of modern separates.

    Emo gear is very average, so I predict the XPA won;t last very long. I'm still scratching my head as to why you went with such mundane gear in Emotiva.........but it's your journey and you've got to experience it for yourself.

    IMO, using the Marantz as a pre is a mistake, especially if you are dead set on being DONE with your rig. The pre is just as important as anything else. You need a good pre to get to the next incremental level. Trust me on that.


    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited June 2011
    H9 hit the nail on the head. I am sure the Marantz sounds good but separates would open up the sound even more.

    I am also not a fan of the Emo stuff I have heard. Maybe a bit better than average but they don't excel at anything in particular.

    Hook that Carver up to a nice Pre and be done with it. You are in for a suprise.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    Obviously this is just my advice and it doesn't have to all be done at once. My rig as it is took about 3 years to assemble and I have been spending the last 1 1/2 years rolling various tubes to get the sound out my pre-amp that is most pleasing. Still, I roll in a different set of tubes occasionally just for fun, but I always go back to my favorite.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited June 2011
    +1 on the importance of the pre-amp. I just stepped up the pre-amp in a serious way, and boy oh boy was that the right move. And the pre is the perrrrrrrrfect place to stick some tubes in your setup. As I like to say, good equipment will make your SDA's sing. Tubes will make them get up and dance.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    Tubes add Soul

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited June 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Tubes add Soul

    H9

    More like sweet distortion and higher noise floor. :biggrin:
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited June 2011
    megasat16 wrote: »
    More like sweet distortion and higher noise floor. :biggrin:

    James, you know not what you speak. You seriously should get your ears on very good, modern tube piece with a Telefunken or Valvo Hamburg tube running the show. It might change your very broad catagorization of tubes.

    I was EXACTLY the same way, once, then I opened my mind and my ears. :biggrin::tongue:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited June 2011
    Hey guys, thanks for the advice.

    In my previous system, I had NAD separates. C162 pre, and C272 amp. What a solid combo. I really regret selling them.

    I mention this to say that I've experienced separates with my Monitor Audio RS6's and Magnepan 1.7's. I also had a nice NAD SACD player and NAD DVD player. Didn't come remotely close to what I'm experiencing now in a system that cost less than my RS6's!!! Unbelievable.

    I wish you guys lived close, you gotta hear it to believe it. Maybe I should send you the receiver to try out in your system :P

    I might get into tubes one day :)
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited June 2011
    megasat16 wrote: »
    More like sweet distortion and higher noise floor. :biggrin:
    As far as objective measurements that would be true more times than not vs a typical SS design.However the proof is in the listening and a little extra 2nd harmonic distortion may not be sonically objectionable,atleast to some:smile:.I have an SE Mosfet pre that has similar unspectactular numbers to an SE triode yet still manages to sounds quite good IMO.I believe it's a personal taste thing ,musicality vs neurality and sheer accuracy.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited June 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    James, you know not what you speak. You seriously should get your ears on very good, modern tube piece with a Telefunken or Valvo Hamburg tube running the show. It might change your very broad catagorization of tubes.

    I was EXACTLY the same way, once, then I opened my mind and my ears. :biggrin::tongue:

    H9
    I haven't heard a piece of tube gear that you could put your ear to the tweeter and not have any idea if the system was powered on or not. There are some systems out there that come close, but they're far from cheap though!
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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