Oh no....

Huck344

Maybe all you Arizonans should start a little vigilante group in which you patrol the borders while wearing white robes and hoods. You can string up anyone brown who attempts to cross the border.

Just because someone doesn't see things your way does not mean they are any more wrong than you perceive yourself to be correct. Nor does it make them part of the "left."

I am as conservative as they come and disagree with MANY of the racist statements that have been made in the name of "following the law."

steveinaz

So because I believe in securing the border, and actually enforcing laws already on the books, I'm a Klansman? Should I hang the illegals first, or my 2 black children?

If you weren't from California, I'd be genuinely offended.

madmax

I always wonder what part of "illegal" do people not understand.
madmax

nooshinjohn

Huck344 wrote: »

Maybe all you Arizonans should start a little vigilante group in which you patrol the borders while wearing white robes and hoods. You can string up anyone brown who attempts to cross the border.

This is statement is as racist as they come, and reported for that very reason.

Huck344 wrote: »

Just because someone doesn't see things your way does not mean they are any more wrong than you perceive yourself to be correct. Nor does it make them part of the "left."

I am as conservative as they come and disagree with MANY of the racist statements that have been made in the name of "following the law."

If your statements qualify as those of a "conservative" Californian, no wonder they are all messed up out there...

After following the issues for most of my adult life, I can honestly say that FAR more racist attitudes come from the left than the right. This issue is no different. Those that come here illegally are too afraid of our system to stand up for themselves and all to often end up being little more than indentured servants to those that provide them work. Not to put to fine a point on it, but to put a STOP to illegal immigration will also put a stop to what is essentially the remnants of slavery in this country. CONSERVATIVES stood for this in 1860 and were vilified for it. Funny how nothing has truly changed.

F1nut

Only here, The United States Of America, can you be granted ALL of the rights, freedoms and liberties (including becoming Governor of a state!!) that generations of Americans have fought, bled, and died for. To allow these rights to those that come here legally is a gift that should be treasured and honored. To simply give the same rights to those that sneek in under cover of darkness, to give them to those that do not wish to become a part of the fabric of our nation and embrace OUR way of life and follow OUR laws, is nothing more than stealing from those that have earned it, and it deminishes the value of what it means to be an American.

Excellent post, you nailed it!

steveinaz

nooshinjohn wrote: »

If your statements qualify as those of a "conservative" Californian, no wonder they are all messed up out there.

...that one explained alot to me too. :rolleyes:

hearingimpared

From Steve's yahoo link;

"What happened in Arizona proves that racism and anti-immigrant hysteria across the country still exists. We need to continue to fight," said Lee Siu Hin, a coordinator with the Washington, D.C.-based National Immigrant Solidarity Network.

I'm gonna puke! Play the race card and anti-immigrant card when you don't have a leg to stand on.

Activists believe opposition to Arizona's new law — which requires authorities to question people about immigration status if there's reason to suspect they're in the country illegally — could be the catalyst needed to draw record-breaking crowds similar to those four years ago.

That's when more than a million people across the country united to fight federal legislation considered anti-immigrant. Though the bill, which would have made being an illegal immigrant a felony, was unsuccessful, it triggered massive marches across the nation.

Who cares if a bunch of people breaking the law and aren't even citizens protest , it IS NOT their right to do so in our country.

Why don't we let all the convicts loose from all our prisons for one day to protest the fact that they were convicted of a crime they commited. Then put them back . . . same friggin thing! UGH!

steveinaz

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Only here, The United States Of America, can you be granted ALL of the rights, freedoms and liberties (including becoming Governor of a state!!) that generations of Americans have fought, bled, and died for. To allow these rights to those that come here legally is a gift that should be treasured and honored. To simply give the same rights to those that sneek in under cover of darkness, to give them to those that do not wish to become a part of the fabric of our nation and embrace OUR way of life and follow OUR laws, is nothing more than stealing from those that have earned it, and it deminishes the value of what it means to be an American.

Exceptional, thanks for putting it into words so elliquently.

nooshinjohn

Thanks F1 and Steve, I had a great teacher.:)

Huck344

nooshinjohn wrote: »

This is statement is as racist as they come, and reported for that very reason.





If your statements qualify as those of a "conservative" Californian, no wonder they are all messed up out there...

After following the issues for most of my adult life, I can honestly say that FAR more racist attitudes come from the left than the right. This issue is no different. Those that come here illegally are too afraid of our system to stand up for themselves and all to often end up being little more than indentured servants to those that provide them work. Not to put to fine a point on it, but to put a STOP to illegal immigration will also put a stop to what is essentially the remnants of slavery in this country. CONSERVATIVES stood for this in 1860 and were vilified for it. Funny how nothing has truly changed.

You are correct. My statement was uncalled for and I apologize. I don't have any problems with the law itself. My comments about racism relates to the arguments on this thread supporting the law.

steveinaz

Huck
I've nothing against you personally, hell I don't even know you. I just disagree with how the whole situation is being handled. No harm done as far as I'm concerned.

We CAN debate these things intelligently, and certainly tempers may flare--I call it passion, and it's never a bad thing. As long as everyone can respect that everyone has a right to an opinion---wether or not we agree with it---the principal right is there.

Systems

Don't you guys think America has done enough already....for all we've done for countries we still are hated...

Don't you think we need to start taking care of our own...

ryanjoachim

Lorthos wrote: »

Don't you guys think America has done enough already....for all we've done for countries we still are hated...

Don't you think we need to start taking care of our own...

We've done just as much (if not more) TO other countries, big or small. It's the nature of any "super power" to exert themselves as they see fit. It happened to all of them: Russia, China, Britain, France, etc. They were all super powers in their days (some still are) and they occupied other countries, started wars over supplies, had their issues with racism/slavery, etc.

nooshinjohn

Huck344 wrote: »

You are correct. My statement was uncalled for and I apologize. I don't have any problems with the law itself. My comments about racism relates to the arguments on this thread supporting the law.

You do not understand the issue then, so if I may help, please pm me and I will give you my number and we can talk.:)


I would like to be so bold as to claim that to a man, there is not a single person here opposed to IMMIGRATION. This is and always has been an essential and welcome aspect of our society. The contributions made to this great land by those that have come from other shores and backrounds is at the core of what makes America the single greatest nation to stand on this earth. The term "melting pot" has been used for decades to describe this experience, but I feel it is more akin to Noah's Ark. The reason for choosing that description is simple. Never before have the Tribes of Man(every creed, color, language, culture, etc) been gathered in ONE LAND and survived without trying to kill one another.

The reason for this is the RULE of LAW and the concept that our rights do not come from the government, but from GOD. That ALL MEN are created Equal and with the unailienable right to life, liberty and the persuit of happiness. We should all know what our founding documents say, but sadly many do not, or do not care.

Illegal Immigration undermines the very essence of what our founders set in place. It creates a permanent underclass that can and is exploited for the purpose of cheap labor and worse. All to often they fall victim to gangs, drugs and the welfare state. They are largely uneducated and do not understand just how horrible their lives are because the country they fled was ten times worse.

In order for us as a nation to welcome those that come here in search of a better life, we have established a means by which the downtrodden can become free and full citizens of the greatest Nation on earth. We are not saying stay out. All we are saying is take a number, fill out a few forms and wait your turn. I have to wait in line a dozen times a day to get what I want. My wife waited 20 years in that line to become a citizen. That process is not an easy one, and as I stated before, with our most precious blood having been spilled for the freedoms we have, it should not be.

Respect our laws and way of life and I will proudly wait in line to shake your hand and say welcome home. Come here ILLEGALLY and don't let the door hit you in the **** on the way out.

steveinaz

Call me whatever you like, but I support my Country and its need to secure the borders, I don't give a rats **** who that offends.

hearingimpared

Wow there are some sig worthy posts in this thread but many are to long! ^^^^^ that one is a keeper.

Kex

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The only radical agenda here is support of the law and the respect of the individual rights of the citizenry of the United States. Show me the hate speech. ...

First of all, I specifically mentioned that my statement had nothing to do with the AZ law. You chose to ignore that, and decided that I support illegal residents in the U.S. In fact, I think everyone should have to show genuine, not forged documentation for any benefit or any employment. If you are here illegally, then you go home, for whatever reason.

For this to work, everyone, regardless of skin color or status (meaning citizen or otherwise), would have to have some form of identification (such as a Driver's License) that is very difficult to forge, and very simple to verify when necessary. That's just a suggestion, but it doesn't appeal to some segments of the population who feel that it infringes upon their liberties if, for example, an employer or hospital were to ask to see such a document for the purpose of verification.

... You folks on the left always run to racism and "hate-speech" in an effort to silence reasoned and intelligent debate of the issues. ...

1) I am not on the "left", because I don't agree with you. I am not happy that conservative values are being taken hostage by a bunch of bigots and media personalities that make all Republicans look like red-neck intollerants that don't understand science (or even want to). This was NOT the way of your hero, Ronald Reagan, IMO.
2) This is far from being an intelligent debate. It is a thread where you must either agree that the AZ law is the best thing since sliced bread, or be labelled a "lefty".

... Is it a radical agenda that says follow the law, or is it a radical agenda that says the law should not be followed for reasons of "social justice". ...

See above. I follow the law, and expect others to do the same.

... I challenge you to contact any Embasy from ANY country on this planet (or whatever planet you choose)and tell them you wish to migrate there. I am not advocating that you leave, rather asking that you find out what the legal requirements are for becoming a citizen of that nation, ...

I could give several examples of this but what's the point? You don't want to know anything that differs with your point of view in any case. The United States Citizenship and Immigration Service is not nearly as open as you might think, for those that want to come here legally. It is a clumsy, inefficient, costly and often degrading process. You obviously have not researched the matter thoroughly, or you would be aware of this already. Perhaps you should discuss this more with somebody that has gone through the process.

... Only here, The United States Of America, can you be granted ALL of the rights, freedoms and liberties ...

Compared to Russia, or Afghanistan, perhaps this would be true (I have no idea). Compared to many nations this is simply NOT true. Again, you obviously have not researched this thoroughly, or you would know otherwise.

... To simply give the same rights to those that sneek in under cover of darkness, to give them to those that do not wish to become a part of the fabric of our nation and embrace OUR way of life and follow OUR laws, is nothing more than stealing from those that have earned it ...

This, we can agree on.

steveinaz

Lorthos wrote: »

Don't you guys think America has done enough already....for all we've done for countries we still are hated...

There are some people, unfortunately, that America will NEVER do enough for.

nooshinjohn

Kex my friend, I could take the time to shred every assertion you made above, but let me state this. I do not draw my beliefs from the "Talking Heads" of the right, though to say they make conservative look like rednecks is a very long stretch IMHO. To make such a statement means that you do not understand Conservatism or it's principles, which to put as simply as possible, is the belief that small government and maximum liberty is the best way to ensure the future of the country and the freedom of it's people. This was exactly the position of my "Hero". Although I have great respect for President Reagan and credit him with opening my eyes, my Hero's are those men that wrote our Constitution, with a nod to Thomas Jefferson.

If you do not support Arizona's right as a state to protect itself from foreign invasion, which the shear volume of illegals is, then what measures do you suggest? It is clear that on the FEDERAL level, there is no desire to do so. If you truly oppose Illegal Immigration, then what is your answer?

With regards to asking someone what they went through, this issue affects me personally. If you truly have read and understand my posts, you will already know that my wife and her entire family have been there and one that already, and yes, the process sucks and needs to improve. For now however it IS THE LAW.

If you truly agree with the last statement you quote, then to dis-agree with everything else appears to be illogical because I have been consistent throughout and that statement is the summation of my beliefs. It is convenient that you edited out the part about the millions of lives given in preservation of the American Dream. As always with those on the left, by not recognizing it they do not have to HONOR it. By not honoring it, you feel you have the right to disrespect everything this country stands for. You should remember one thing, and this is crutial. The ONLY reason you have ANY rights at all is because God gave them to you and the men you so conveniently edited from my quote died to protect them.

To learn history is to understand the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

steveinaz

nooshinjohn wrote: »

If you truly agree with my last statement you quote, then to dis-agree with anything else appears to be illogical because I have been consistent throughout and that statement is the summation of my beliefs.

I was going to say exactly the same thing.

Kex

steveinaz wrote: »

I was going to say exactly the same thing.

All that means is that you are unable, or unwilling to see any other point of view other than your own.

Perhaps it's time for Lord Vader to take control of this thread, ... and illegal immigration!

Kex

nooshinjohn wrote: »

... It is convenient that you edited out the part about the millions of lives given in preservation of the American Dream. As always with those on the left, by not recognizing it the do not have to HONOR it.

Now that statement ... is downright rude!

PM will be sent shortly.

BIZILL

Huck344 wrote: »

Maybe all you Arizonans should start a little vigilante group in which you patrol the borders while wearing white robes and hoods. You can string up anyone brown who attempts to cross the border.

Just because someone doesn't see things your way does not mean they are any more wrong than you perceive yourself to be correct. Nor does it make them part of the "left."

I am as conservative as they come and disagree with MANY of the racist statements that have been made in the name of "following the law."

i'm not allowed in this party being half VIETNAMESE and all. i'm sure you were referring to my comments. anyway, we already have such a group. the minutemen, only they cannot be compared to "the klan". but they never did become strong enough to make a difference nor change anything. anyway, i like your idea and would love to take time off of work to enforce it...minus the white hood and robe. can i instead wear my skivvies? it gets rather hot down here.

edited for misspelling klan.

edit: did i misspell misspell? mispell. nope, got it right. or did i? i'm getting old.

steveinaz

Verbose?...maybe, I wouldn't call it rude.

Demiurge

BIZILL wrote: »

i'm not allowed in this party being half VIETNAMESE and all. i'm sure you were referring to my comments. anyway, we already have such a group. the minutemen, only they cannot be compared to "the klan". but they never did become strong enough to make a difference nor change anything. anyway, i like your idea and would love to take time off of work to enforce it...minus the white hood and robe. can i instead wear my skivvies? it gets rather hot down here.

edited for misspelling klan.

edit: did i misspell misspell? mispell. nope, got it right. or did i? i'm getting old.

OK, wow.

nooshinjohn

Kex wrote: »

Perhaps it's time for Lord Vader to take control of this thread, ... and illegal immigration!

I think he is on vacation in Bolivia or perhaps the Outer Ring Club on Omega Prime:p...

Kex

steveinaz wrote: »

Verbose?...maybe, I wouldn't call it rude.

Since you mention it, I consider it rude for two reasons:

1) It again insinuates that I am a "lefty", despite my statement to the contrary.

2) It suggests that I edited out a statement because I do not honor those who have died defending their country, or the values they defended, which, in my world of conservative values, is a tawdry tactic and therefore, beneath John's dignity, and exceedingly rude.

It follows on the heels of such statement as "If you truly agree with the last statement you quote", which implies I stated something that I knew not to be true, or "To make such a statement means that you do not understand Conservatism or it's principles", which simply means we do not share the SAME view of conservatism, but neither of us has a better claim to such IMO.

For this reason, I have sent a PM and will not participate further. Thank you, Steve, for keeping your participation civil!

Happy listening to all Polkies, conservative or lefty, as long as they are here legally!

Kex

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I think he is on vacation in Bolivia or perhaps the Outer Ring Club on Omega Prime:p...

Did he have any issues with the immigration laws there, or did he just blow them up first?!

BIZILL

Demiurge wrote: »

OK, wow.

wanna chime in, or ya skurrd of the BAN-hammer? lol.

Demiurge

BIZILL wrote: »

wanna chime in, or ya skurrd of the BAN-hammer? lol.

lol...

No point in debating what to do with these cats until they seal up the damn border.