Oh no....

reeltrouble1

so now if your a lefty your bad, great spin by the righties.

if I was a rich person I would tell the regular people the poor people are robbing them and the root of all the evils.

I think Montana needs to toughen up on those damm Canadiens, they are big trouble and dont work worth beans, coming here with frozen fingers and all that and those damm Irish guys, floating here....and of course the Asians.......better get a big fence kit.

Wasn't Arizona the same state that refused to recognize a Federal holiday for Dr. King??

I think it was, well, I sense a business opportunity, The Pepe Pit might be a snappy name to catch em, about eight foot cubed, naw, lets just dig a canyon around the whole country and fill it with Australian Crocs, that should get the Canadians Bacon as well as anybody else and Crocs dont Profile.

Well on a bit more serious note, the Euros took it/bought it, others want it back or at least to be part of it, blood will spill, it is the way of men, thankfully, we are still a nation of law and freedom to speak our minds.

Most really good teams have lefties and righties. no????

RT1

BIZILL

Demiurge wrote: »

lol...

No point in debating what to do with these cats until they seal up the damn border.

which may never happen. we're (AZ) trying to pick up where the federal government leaves off...at the beginning. this is nothing new. been happening through the years. at least now maybe we're bringing the big picture back to mainstream americans who seem to have become, let me say again, complacent.

gotta start somewhere. do whatever it is we can.

Rivrrat

I've had a lot to say about this bill, but I've said it on another forum and I realy don't need to add to what everyone else from here has already said. What I will say is I'm very pro SB1070.

What I have noticed is in my ten years in Az, the dialog hasn't changed a bit until this bill passed, and like BIZILL just said, we have to start somewhere.

And on that note I'm going to go drink some beer, smoke a cigar, and listen to some music.

Face

madmax wrote: »

I always wonder what part of "illegal" do people not understand.
madmax

Ha!!!

Demiurge

BIZILL wrote: »

which may never happen. we're (AZ) trying to pick up where the federal government leaves off...at the beginning. this is nothing new. been happening through the years. at least now maybe we're bringing the big picture back to mainstream americans who seem to have become, let me say again, complacent.

gotta start somewhere. do whatever it is we can.

Yep, just saying, though...I never understand why everyone debates endlessly about what to do with those who are here illegally already without addressing the main problem, which is the flow of illegals through our porous border.

reeltrouble1

how to stop it????? The Big Green Machine is doing what they can, they hired like crazy and yes alot of the Agents are sent to the Southern Border, dont forget though Homeland's top priority is counter-terrorism and a big part of the budget for that Agency goes there. Border Patrol is just one Agency of the Fed Pie.

So Az speaks or passes a law, will it do any good? If it stands, I really do not know, but I do know folks have been coming here illegally from all the over the world for a long time, I suspect they always will until they no longer want to, which given the problem, may actually happen.....and that is sad, well I think so.

I ran a unit filled with illegal aliens awaiting hearing for a few years, yep, they would get arrested, if they had committed another crime besides illegal entry they got extra time for that, then a hearing judge would decide their fate, usually deportation, kind of unreal to think about it, to boot the unit was in PA, but the Fed has them all around the country, there were Euros, Canadien, Asian, African, Middle Eastern, but for sure the predominant race of illegals were Hispanic origin, but not necessarily from Mexico, from Central America to South America, had a couple of caucasian from South America as well. So the point is they would tell me they came here because it was better than were they were, they said getting in legally just was not something they could do, so they ended up in prison. A number of them come through Port Cities.

I wonder what the number crunchers would say the total impact would be if not one more person entered illegally. Anybody know the number that is guesstimated to come through Az in any single day???

So the political spin starts. I hate that part of things, its gotten so seedy, but the fact is our Government represents all the people. So everybody get their say in so many ways.

RT1

steveinaz

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Most really good teams have lefties and righties. no????

RT1

Absolutely, balance is built into this great Country for a reason...

Face

Ted, how many of them came back? We've had a few ICE detainees who were deported to only end back up in the system a few months or year or so later. The system is broken, it's about time someone is taking a step in the right direction to fix it.

Maybe this would help curb our increasing gang problem too.

hearingimpared

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

So the political spin starts. I hate that part of things, its gotten so seedy, but the fact is our Government represents all the citizens. So every citizen gets their say in so many ways.

RT1

Had to fix it for ya Big Bro.

Face

Also, as for all those job nobody wants to do. Maybe people would be forced to get off their fat asses and do the work themselves. And have their kids help out instead of playing video games all day.

reeltrouble1

more than one Mike, that is for sure, hell, sometimes they were happy to see me, three hots a warm blanket and a job. We actually had some breaking into camps to eat/sleep in some states, unreal.

reeltrouble1

hearingimpared wrote: »

Had to fix it for ya Big Bro.

sorry Joe, but that is not so, our Government represents anybody on our soil, hence, Gitmo, which by the way may be shut down and those folks located on our soil, there rights once they are here is something to be dealt with and the primary reason they are not here already.

hearingimpared

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

sorry Joe, but that is not so, our Government represents anybody on our soil, hence, Gitmo, which by the way may be shut down and those folks located on our soil, there rights once they are here is something to be dealt with and the primary reason they are not here already.

. . . and here all along I thought they represented the voters who have to be citizens correct? I know all citizens do not vote but you get my drift.

reeltrouble1

your confused Joe, that was Rome. But even Rome fell, all empires, superpowers, regimes have evetually fallen, why will the US be any different, the Roman Empire was destroyed from within, they faced many the same problems we now face. Anyway just know once your on US soil a bunch of powerful folks watch out for you, of course other powerful folks want you out. Most citizens do not vote, so the fact illegals cant vote does not really seem to matter all that much, the illegals are represented, which is part of what the thread is about and they do have rights.

So during WWII the US interred all the Japanese we could round up. Was it right?? Would it happen today?? Did it help us win the war?, I know that one, yes it did. I also know it would not happen today, see, what made us strong once, now is viewed as making us weak, morally wrong or even illegal.

RT1

hearingimpared

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

your confused Joe, that was Rome. But even Rome fell, all empires, superpowers, regimes have evetually fallen, why will the US be any different, the Roman Empire was destroyed from within, they faced many the same problems we now face. Anyway just know once your on US soil a bunch of powerful folks watch out for you, of course other powerful folks want you out. Most citizens do not vote, so the fact illegals cant vote does not really seem to matter all that much, the illegals are represented, which is part of what the thread is about and they do have rights.

So during WWII the US interred all the Japanese we could round up. Was it right?? Would it happen today?? Did it help us win the war?, I know that one, yes it did.

You da man BB!

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I also know it would not happen today, see, what made us strong once, now is viewed as making us weak, morally wrong or even illegal.

UGH! Ain't that the truth!:(

phuz

Political thread made it to 5 pages? WTF.

F1nut

It's not political matter, it's a social matter and the discussion has been pretty civil.

hearingimpared

Have another beer pal and stop trying to get what has been a cilvil discussion, until you came in, closed.

nooshinjohn

Echo.... your posts have been reported. Welcome to the IL.

hearingimpared

nooshinjohn wrote: »

Echo.... your posts have been reported. Welcome to the IL.

I hope this guy doesn't get this thread closed. It has shown how well a hot topic like this on CP can remain a civil discussion.

nooshinjohn

hearingimpared wrote: »

I hope this guy doesn't get this thread closed. It has shown how well a hot topic like this on CP can remain a civil discussion.

Agreed Joe. This thread is a testament to how good our discussions CAN be. I hope trolls like this are dealt with directly rather than everybody else paying the price. And now, back to our regular programming.

apphd

Good job John, hope the mods take care of the one, and let this thread live. Also good job to all for keeping this a civil discussion.

First I will say my wife is an immigrant, and we went through all the costs, and jumped through all the hoops to do this legally. So what others have said about it being a slap in the face to those that do follow the laws is true, at least to me.
I served in the military, my father served, was shot down and was a POW in Germany. It is also some what of a slap in the face to me as a vet. as well, and I think I can speak for him and say he would feel the same.

If anyone missed it AZ has modified the law to remove any profiling, and you guessed it the ACLU still says it is not fair to all the criminals (that is what they are) it would apply to. AZ now says it will ask for proof of citizenship and ID only if being questioned for some other offense. Same as if any of us got pulled over for speeding, or any other disregard to law. In other words LEO's will simply do the job we expect and pay them to do with our tax $$. I am very surprised so many others, who are not residents of AZ seem to think it is their job, to change AZ law. Don't like, don't go there.

steveinaz

I think the sticky part of the law is the fear from Hispanic American citizens thinking they will be unduly harassed. You have to remember, Border Patrol has been doing these checks from day 1, at every single BP outpost. We have one on Highway 90, just as you come out of Whetstone, Az headed towards I-10. I have never heard of any unrest, protesting of these checks, or lawsuits filed over these checks. The Border Patrol knows the key signs that trigger them to pull a vehicle off for further inspection.

The difference is that Police will participate in these checks, when they feel something isn't right, or when it's clearly obvious that you may be dealing with illegals. They cannot stop you for the sole purpose of checking your citizen "status." We're having big illegal crime activity problems in Phoenix, it's difficult to afford/maintain BP outpost that far south of the border, that's why Arizona wants to involve the police now in these checks---when warranted. American citizens WILL NOT have to travel around with their "papers." That's rediculous rhetoric started by the opposition. This law would have died as a bill, if that was a requirement. Keep in mind, a large percentage of our population is Hispanic Americans, not to mention a large perceentage of Border Patrol agents! The job requires learning spanish, so as you might have guessed, quite a few agents are Hispanic.

nooshinjohn

The seeds of our current problem with border control lay in the end of the Civil War, called the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. This action called for removal of all federal troops from use within the borders of the states, thus leaving security to the states, and the borders have been wide open ever since. Until that time, the Army's day to day role was to defend these areas and to prevent illegal entry into the U. S.

steveinaz

BTW, we Americans all carry "papers," they're called license, registration, and proof of insurance. When enforcement begins to see holes during these checks, they'll check a little deeper. The deeper they check the more holes will form for someone here illegally. These are the tip-offs (and the series of events) that raise a flag for Border Patrol/Police.

exalted512

steveinaz wrote: »

BTW, we Americans all carry "papers," they're called license, registration, and proof of insurance. When enforcement begins to see holes during these checks, they'll check a little deeper. The deeper they check the more holes will form for someone here illegally. These are the tip-offs (and the series of events) that raise a flag for Border Patrol/Police.

I'm calling BS. The only reason why would dig deeper is because of race! Their racists! All of them.

/sarcasm
-Cody

nooshinjohn

Not to interupt our programming again, but I wanted to thank the Mods for their work in restoring this thread rather than putting an end to it. This thread does walk the tight-rope with regards to a couple of taboo areas, but I feel it does an exemplary job of demonstration how such issues can be discussed without falling into the abyss. My hat's off to everyone for the civility that has been displayed and to the mods for allowing it to continue.

Polkersince85

For the history buffs here, President Eisenhower had some fairly effective solutions. This is not the first time this issue has surfaced.

cheddar

Don't know it it's been said already as I had to skim quite a few pages. But California government at all levels from San Francisco to Sacramento is broke and laying off government workers. Programs are being slashed, and red ink is all over the place. Unlike the federal gov't, California can't just print money to get out of this.

Despite all the noise a few high profile politicians are making, I doubt California has the ability to sustain any type of boycott without doing further damage to not only the government but California businesses as well. From what I've seen, this is just a lot of bluster from the politicians looking for anything to distract voters (yes California voters can be pissed off at our politicians too) from our imploding local governments come november.

I understand the frustration being vented in general at California as these politicians were elected by Californians. But many of these politicians are local (San Francisco pop. 800,000 out of 36,000,000 Californians). So some of you might want to direct your anger towards the politicians instead...or not, as California seems to always be a pretty good punching bag for the rest of the nation...:rolleyes:

nooshinjohn

^^^California is what the people of her state made her. As a Representative Republic, their politicians represent exactly what her citizens voted for and therefore bear the responsibility for their failure. You guys can RECALL your elected officials if they fail to do their jobs, but I don't see a big push to do that. Until you guys fix your own problems, Cali will be the poster child for government run amuck and rightly so.

If Californians had the stones to follow Arizona's lead, they would be a long way towards fixing their troubles.