I Love SL2000 Tweeters

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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    Don't you wish you could explain how everything works and why. I don't.

    If you could explain everything then the cable debate would have been over a long time ago :)

    If anyone has a stock pair of 2.3's, pm me and I send you 2 free 1.0 uf (mfd) 250 v caps to plug and play into the middle tweeters.

    I'm pretty much done with the 2.3's. I'm tackling the srs's today to see which tweeter(s) need a cap and which don't. I arbitrarily put a cap on all them without doing any further testing.
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited March 2008
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    Good. If you're done with them, quit telling us about them. Enough of the friggin' cap deal.
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    The srs's appear to be a whole different animal. Many more threads to come :D
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,576
    edited March 2008
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    They're about to get wrapped into one big thread so think very hard about the next round.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited March 2008
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    How about closed. After a bunch of post from guys who know speakers informing him on how they work... When I said something stupid in metal shop in high school the teacher would send me in his office. There was a poster that read
    "It is better to keep your mouth shut, and look stupid than open it, and remove all doubt"
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited March 2008
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    The empty can rattles the most.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    This is why I stay out of the cable debates. I've heard the differences but said nothing pro or con before I tried it.

    1. Nearly everything in audio is subjective so to make comments without trying it is not a very logical approach.

    2. Even personal experience in audio is subjective but I trust my own personal experience more than anything I read on here, in a book or in a magazine.

    I guess you'll be lumping all the endless cables debates together too because this debate isn't any different except fewer ppl have tried this one.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2008
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    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    Even personal experience in audio is subjective but I trust my own personal experience more than anything I read on here, in a book or in a magazine.
    Thats all well and good, but it's your unorthadox methods that are being questioned.Your results are completely subjective and that alone and not based on sound(pun not intended) engineering.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    No one can prove what I've tried does or doesn't work until they try it.

    This is just like the cable debate.

    No one can prove one cable is better than another until they try it.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited March 2008
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    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    The easiest solution was a stop-gap tweeter but compromises had to made because the multiple tweeters in the sda each handle different x-over frequencies. It solved the brightness complaints but took 50% of the soundstage and vocals/mids along with it.

    Why do you say the development of a higher performance tweeter was "easier" and a "stop-gap"? The term stop-gap implies a temporary solution of inferior quality. I have years of experience listening to the SL3000 and RD0 tweeters. The term "stop-gap" is not applicable to them in any respect.

    Along that same line of reasoning, I did not experience any loss of vocal or midrange detail or soundstage shrinkage when I replaced SL2000's with RD0194's and when I replaced SL3000's with RD0198's. I, and others, have documented our listening evaluations with various SDA tweeters. However, if adding a cap to your tweeters makes them sound better to you, then I must take your word for it. However, what you are doing violates the design parameters of the speaker.
    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    The easiest solution in the short term is to add caps at the tweeter level until you EE types can work out the optimal cap values at the x-over.

    I wonder why Polk didn't think of that? Polk Inc. spent significant time, effort, and money in the development of the SL3000 tweeter and again in the development of the RD0 tweeters. If all they really needed to do was add a cap in series with the tweeters, and then modify the crossover cap values, seems like they could have saved themselves a lot of time and expense.

    We must also be mindful of the very significant fact that Polk introduced the RD0 tweeters in 2003. This was 12 years after the SDA series was officially discontinued in 1991. It just seems to me that Polk would have rather introduced an easy capacitor addition rather than going through the grief of product design and development for new tweeters and then having to qualify manufacturers. Again, all this is for a product line that they stopped receiving revenue from 12 years prior to the introduction of the RD0 tweeters.
    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    Just like someone said "this is not rocket science"

    No, it's not rocket science. But the design and manufacture of high quality transducers is not trivial science either.
    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    You guys can and do understand what I'm talking about.

    No. I don't.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    I'm glad you and others enjoy the rd0's. I do not and thus my search for something I like.

    I've always thought the sl2000 was a phenominal tweeter so when someone on here suggested putting a cap on it. I tried it, liked what I heard and I'm still experimenting with it and sharing my journey with the forum just like others share the progress they're making when they refurbish a pair of speakers, amp, house or anything else they feel like sharing.

    I would rather have success at something unorthodox than failure by not trying it at all just because a. it can't be explained, b. no one's ever tried it before, c. any other reason someone might make up.

    I try to make my titles very descriptive so it's not hard to know whether you want to open and read them. It's not that hard to just move on to the next thread without opening the ones you're not interested in. It's also just as easy to back out of a thread if it's not something that interests you.
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited March 2008
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    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    I try to make my titles very descriptive so it's not hard to know whether you want to open and read them. It's not that hard to just move on to the next thread without opening the ones you're not interested in. It's also just as easy to back out of a thread if it's not something that interests you.

    My sentiments exactly.

    I think it's best for all of us that "know better" and actually understand what's going on to bow out of these ridiculous threads gracefully. The more we try to explain, the more it just goes on and on and on and on and on....

    That or employ the ignore feature.
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited March 2008
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    You need to experiment with different brands of caps too. Have fun.

    edit: ignore feature? Thank you AVguy.
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    avguytx wrote: »
    I think it's best for all of us that "know better" and actually understand what's going on....

    I'm pretty sure this is exactly what the cable naysayers are saying to themselves when the whole forum is trying to convince them that cables do indeed make a difference. They've read something somewhere in a book, magazine or at their electical trade school that it would be unorthodox for different cables to carry a given signal differently than the next cable.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,094
    edited March 2008
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    I've been out 3-4 days with a massive head cold and I can see Carl is as nutty as ever (not meant in a good way).

    F1 pretty much sums it up. I'll add delusional. Which is what I've been, on the OTC meds I've been taking to get rid of this really nasty bug. Even in my doped up state this makes no sense and Carl's arguments are circular, which is where one can file this information.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited March 2008
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    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure this is exactly what the cable naysayers are saying to themselves when the whole forum is trying to convince them that cables do indeed make a difference. They've read something somewhere in a book, magazine or at their electical trade school that it would be unorthodox for different cables to carry a given signal differently than the next cable.

    Cables can and do make a difference depending on the application depending on what you're actually comparing and just how far you want to go with cable upgrades.

    What you're doing by adding a 6db/oct capacitor AFTER the crossover already in the speakers is just changing the total crossover setup completely; crossover point phasing, etc. There is no science to what you've done other than a (not so) bright idea to stick a cap in for poops and grins.

    Hey, if you like it, God bless you (and help you). Just don't go recommending something being added into an elaborate crossover filter that you have absolutely no clue as to how it works in the first place.
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2008
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    The main thing to remember is that even though you perceive less treble amplitude and harshness it means nothing. Put them in another room or change the equipment around and you will have a completely different sound. The harshness is from a cable, connection, power or a piece of equipment and the frequency imbalance is from the room/speaker placement.

    A few rules I follow (not that you have to) is:
    1. Change equipment around until the sound is smooth.
    2. Treat the room until the frequency balance is correct.
    3. Position the speakers for optimum balance between soundstage width and depth. With SDA's you won't notice much depth.

    Changing the frequency response of the speaker is only leading you into a corner which will make some recordings sound better and others worse than they should be. No different than dickin' with an eq. :)

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    Shows me how far a naysayer will go instead of buying a $3 cap and trying it themselves. But some of you are trying to convince the cable naysayers to go out and buy $50 or $100 or $500 cables because you say they work. Isn't that hypocritical to the audio oath you took :) to practice what you preach.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2008
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    Hey Candy,
    Did someone tell you its necessary to pay that much for a cable? Its not. I've heard some pretty good ones that cost nothing. My last set was a pair of AR 12 foot interconnects I picked up from a thrift store named Ollies for $3. I've also heard some crappy sounding ones that cost a hundred dollars more. I tend to like the sound of the MIT's but I wouldn't spend that much more unless I have it sitting around. (which I don't right now :))
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,862
    edited March 2008
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    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    Shows me how far a naysayer will go instead of buying a $3 cap and trying it themselves. But some of you are trying to convince the cable naysayers to go out and buy $50 or $100 or $500 cables because you say they work. Isn't that hypocritical to the audio oath you took :) to practice what you preach.


    You remind me of a squirrel burying his nut. You get so fixated on an idea (be it parking, mercury, a $3 cap, etc.) that you never see that bad a$$ dog about to bite you. Remember the last time the dog bit you? You were away at the vet's for quite awhile, eh!?!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2008
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    You know the cheaper cables contain mercury, right? Thats one reason I switched to the more expensive MITs to start with. :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,862
    edited March 2008
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    Yeah Chuck, I was alarmed to discover that fact. Even though I switched to MIT myself many years ago I think it was too late as I was gumming speaker wire instead of a pacifier from day one.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    F1nut wrote: »
    You remind me of a squirrel burying his nut. You get so fixated on an idea (be it parking, mercury, a $3 cap, etc.) that you never see that bad a$$ dog about to bite you. Remember the last time the dog bit you? You were away at the vet's for quite awhile, eh!?!

    Your comments still don't mean anything until you've tried the cap. We're talking about audio here, not my past or your past. Tweakers and DIY's are always trying something new that no one else has ever tried before. If you don't like to read about tweaking and DIY projects and ideas then don't.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2008
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    F1nut wrote: »
    Yeah Chuck, I was alarmed to discover that fact.

    Yea, and the sda's with all those magnets in the vertical plane, lined in parallel with each other... Whew. Talk about magnetic radiation to the user. I wonder if you could even make SDA's today? I guess if the magnetics polarized your cells over a long time span the blood would get separated. I've never noticed any symptoms but then again, I make sure they are located on the south wall. Better safe than sorry. I've sold off most of them anyway and now I sit at least 15 feet from them.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    You didn't know magnets are good for you. Some ppl are taping them all over their bodies.
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited March 2008
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    Dude you are retarded. This is not a subjective thing. You can measure the ill affects of placing a cap in series with a tweeter! Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. You just keep digging. You lost all credibility with me, and many others. Not only are you rolling off the highs, but as mention you are throwing the phase off. This is why you don't see very many 12d, and 18db crossovers in the same speaker. If you do usually you reverse the polarity on the tweeter to correct phase. The phase part is not as cut, and dry as what a certain value cap does at a certain impedance, but it is well understood that you do not do this, and still have a speaker that is capable of carrying the full audio spectrum. You should be slapped, and sterilized. You repeated post of shear stupidity is embarrassing. I have made some pretty dumb mistakes will design, and Polkie's have said don't do that, and this is why. I listened, and learned. This "fix" that many audio engineers couldn't figure out is,and you did... guess what is NOT A FIX. Keep posting away:rolleyes:
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited March 2008
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    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    Your comments still don't mean anything until you've tried the cap.

    I guess I shouldn't coment on jumping off a skyscraper then:rolleyes:
    Unless I have tried it.
    Its been proven, and well documented that jumping of a skyscraper kills people, but I haven't tried it:rolleyes:

    Maybe you should try it;)
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited March 2008
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    That's why it's called tweaking aka pushing the envelope. Maybe the person that recommended it on here knew more than any of us do and that's why he/she recommended it. Find the post and the person who recommended it and you can ask them why. It was posted around the last 6 months of 2006 because I bought the first caps in nov 2006 and have been using them ever since and believe me I don't listen to anything that doesn't sound the best I've ever heard.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited March 2008
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    ben62670 wrote: »
    This is not a subjective thing.
    It is until he provides measurements.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2008
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    candyliquor35m wrote: »
    You didn't know magnets are good for you. Some ppl are taping them all over their bodies.

    Not me man, I stay away from them. People are stupid in general.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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