Coffee
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For those that roast their own coffee beans (I have not tried this yet), I have a couple of questions for you.
1 - Do you have to get beans that are not previously roasted (special order) or do you just roast the whole beans prior to grinding?
2 - I have read that an air fryer would work to roast the beans. I take it that you place the beans on a flat pan, distribute them evenly and roast?
3 - How long do you roast them for and at what temperature?
4 - Do you grind them when still hot or do you need to let the beans cool down?
5 - Do you have to mist them with water prior to roasting?
Please advise and thanks.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
One caveat, perhaps: with a decent espresso machine, pre-ground Illy for espresso machines will always be better IMO than freshly ground with the average grinder, or blade grinder, that the average kitchen provides.
A blade grinder should not even be considered a coffee grinder IMO. They are barely good enough for spices.
I should have included "a good quality grinder" as well.
By that, I mean and adjustable conical burr grinder. My Encore will do espresso grind to my satisfaction. I had a couple others that worked well, but I stuck with Baratza for parts availability.
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Hmmm, interesting. I got curious about this and popped onto Cook's Illustrated (have to be a member) and to my surprise, there are a couple of articles that show you the science and process behind roasting green coffee beans.
To answer some of my own questions -
1 - Do you have to get beans that are not previously roasted (special order) or do you just roast the whole beans prior to grinding? - You have to special order unroasted, natural coffee beans. They will be pea green to steel gray in color. As they roast, they will turn color, as the Maillard reaction kicks in, the bean starts to turn yellow, then tan, then deeper and deeper brown.
2 - I have read that an air fryer would work to roast the beans. I take it that you place the beans on a flat pan, distribute them evenly and roast? - In my little bit of research, this is done by some people online but after reading some stuff, it appears as if this would yield differing results with each batch. They use a dedicated roaster like this;
https://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Roast-SR700-Coffee-Roaster/dp/B00I5W9OQ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&tag=akotrx02120-20
Apparently the process during the roasting of the coffee can yield differing results of flavors, even from the same batch of coffee. Another example of everything affecting everything. Airflow and temperature are not a constant during the roasting process, so it's not a set it and forget it type of cook. That nuanced trajectory, which skillful roasters shape with a carefully planned series of adjustments throughout the process, is called the roast profile. All of which, affect the final outcome/flavor of the coffee.
4 - Do you grind them when still hot or do you need to let the beans cool down? I found out that you have to air cool the beans prior to grinding.
I also read that with green beans (unroasted coffee), you can special order it at a lower cost than roasted coffee beans. However, those savings may be eaten up by shipping costs. I have a few more articles to read (which I will not do right now) but I find this fascinating and my curiosity has definitely been peaked. Here is a shot of a professional coffee roasting machine in NY...
Another tid bit of interesting information (to me) - Most modern roasters use software that translates the thermometer readings from within the machine into real-time curves that clearly illustrate the course of a roast.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
For those that roast their own coffee beans (I have not tried this yet), I have a couple of questions for you.
1 - Do you have to get beans that are not previously roasted (special order) or do you just roast the whole beans prior to grinding?
2 - I have read that an air fryer would work to roast the beans. I take it that you place the beans on a flat pan, distribute them evenly and roast?
3 - How long do you roast them for and at what temperature?
4 - Do you grind them when still hot or do you need to let the beans cool down?
5 - Do you have to mist them with water prior to roasting?
Please advise and thanks.
Tom
Tom,
You would have to purchase green beans (not roasted previously). Re-roasting store bought coffee would probably result in a burnt taste.
I have a friend who does it. I can't answer all the other questions, but I know it is time consuming, requires a lot of experimenting, etc., but it is apparently quite satisfying and tasty.
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Yeah, I think I just found me another hobby....
Anyone have any recommendations for green coffee beans? I'll have to research quite a bit on the coffee roasters. The prices and reviews are all over the place. Basically from 30 bucks up to 10K for residential coffee roasters. That's a pretty big swing!
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Don't do it, Tom!
Also, don't forget a dedicated circuit or AC regenerator and power cable upgrade, otherwise power delivery will be inconsistent, and your roast profile not accurately repeatable. I've seen it a million times.
I disabled signatures. -
1. Green beans can be bought online and at some specialty stores. Sweetmarias.com is one I use.
2. Not sure but the most basic is on the stove in a cast iron skillet.
3. Variable. Dependent on the roaster, the beans and the degree of darkness desired. My roasts take 10-12 minutes per batch. There’s software available to allow different ‘profiles’ of temperature used during the roast. Can be very nerdy.
4. Beans should rest about a day before brewing drip. Longer resting is better for espresso.
5. No. Although some mist beans prior to grinding to reduce static and grinds flying around. Some grinders are more prone to this and misting reduces the mess.
It can be another rabbit hole, but fun. -
Cool website. Thanks for sharing that! I can definitely see how this is going to turn into a rabbit hole.
I see that shipping is included. That's nice. Their selection is vast!
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Well, I just now started this journey with my first purchase. After reading many reviews, I came across this book by Scott Rao, who has consulted for many of the world's finest roasters. Figured I'd start here. I can finish up the articles on Cook's Illustrated in the meantime.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Props to @treitz3 for the suggestion of the Urnex stuff. I got the descaler and cleaner and ran them through my Moccamaster yesterday. Holy cow, the junk that came out. That descaler works like crazy. I don't care to admit how long it's been since I cleaned it (OK, never in the 1.5 years I've owned it). Looks like new and the coffee tastes great.
Related point... the only reason I own a Moccamaster at all is due to a coffee maker thread here on CP a couple of years ago, lol.SystemLuxman L-590AXII Integrated Amplifier|KEF Reference 1 Loudspeakers|PS Audio Directream Jr|Sansui TU-9900 Tuner|TEAC A-6100 RtR|REL T/9X SE Sub -
The Scott Rao book is supposed to be very comprehensive. I saw some posts by him in a coffee forum in which he wishes he covered some topics better. So I’m thinking he may have a second edition out at some point. I started out roasting with a Freshroast similar to that picture posted by @treitz3. I then got a Behmor roaster which is a hybrid of the fluid bed (hot air) style of the Freshroast and drum roasters. Then got a used Quest M3, which is a miniature drum roaster. You can roast excellent coffee with any of them. Many start out with a modified hot air popcorn popper. Have fun, Tom. Even when you screw up a roast, your coffee will always be fresh.
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Hmmm, I like the sounds of that roaster. All manual. Replaceable parts. Disassembles in minutes, Access to all parts. The only thing I didn't like about it is that it isn't recommended for just doing one batch because of the wear and tear of the drum (according to the manufacturer). Bummer, as I would have to vac seal and freeze the coffee because I wouldn't want it to go bad before I had a chance to use it......and I have no idea where to get a one way seal to let out the carbon dioxide but keep the oxygen in.....or how I would even attach it to a vac sealed bag.
@maxward - Would you recommend the M3? I did read some reviews of the one that CI recommended (pictured above by me and no longer available) and one of the biggest turnoffs was that it worked great for once you had your roasting profile, but when you were still in the development/experimenting stage, you had to go back, hook up the computer and override previous settings. Plus, I read that it wasn't the most user friendly instructions and program.....so that one's out of the running.
I do have one more question for you - I can see why you would want one thermometer but I am a little stumped at why you would want to hook up two. What does each probe measure?
Okay, maybe three questions - is the sampler easy and fast to take a look at a sample, as it is roasting? And I see that it has a window but my question is this - Is it actually useful to judge the stage the roast....or is this what you use the sampler for?
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Jetmaker737 wrote: »Related point... the only reason I own a Moccamaster at all is due to a coffee maker thread here on CP a couple of years ago, lol.
Found it. https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/194797/coffee
@maxward - Gots another question for ya' (since you have apparently been doing this a while). You had mentioned in the thread from 2021 that you buy/roast mostly African beans. Is this still the case or have you discovered something else from another country that rocks your boat?
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
....and for even more reading pleasure, a 9 page thread from back in 2015 about coffee - https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/168412/pour-over-coffee-maker-anyone
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I think that the comment about roasting only one batch being harmful is BS. You will likely roast multiple batches in any case. They are rugged, well-made little roasters. They take modifications well, too. They are not cheap and hold their value well.
Mine came with three thermocouples installed, along with the connectors (Phidgets?)to attach to a laptop and use Artisan, the popular roasting software. I don’t have Artisan and am in no big hurry to get it. I like using my senses and time/temperature readings from the thermocouples. The Quest has a nice sight window and a little trier you can pull a few beans out of the drum and see/smell them. Artisan is set up to monitor time and temperature from three thermocouples and plot the progress of the roast. One is maximum environmental temperature (MET) and is outside the drum near the heating elements. One is environmental temperature (ET) in the drum, but up high. The third is bean temperature (BT), also in the drum, but low and within the mass of tumbling beans. I have MET and BT connected to my meters and only occasionally check ET, but I might buy another meter.
I’m sure Mr. Rao’s book will answer any questions that you have. I might get a copy for myself. Good luck. -
I think that the comment about roasting only one batch being harmful is BS.
Thanks. I kind of figured that may be the case. I couldn't really think of anything that would be damaged but the manufacturer states it in their literature, so I figured I'd mention it. I like that they make you sign a document before you buy that you are an experienced roaster. I guess they had too many rookies trying to return them after botching batch after batch.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
…or catching their beans on fire!
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@treitz3 I just caught your question about beans. Yes. I currently have green beans from Africa: Ethiopia, Tanzania and Burundi. I do buy beans from elsewhere, mostly from Central and South America. Got some nice Kona when we visited Hawaii years ago.
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This is another way I enjoy coffee.
Espresso martini with a fresh pulled shot, currently pulling shots with Good Citizen Palmera out of Nashville.
Recipe is:
1oz espresso
1oz vodka
1oz baileys
.5oz rum
1oz simple syrup
Splash of milk
2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
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I haven’t gone down the rabbit hole of roasting yet, but I’ve looked into it. I have too many hobbies…2 Channel in my home attic/bar/man cave
2 Channel Focal Kanta 3 I Modwright SWL9.0 Anniversary Pre I Modwright PH9.0X I Modwright KWA-150SE I VPI Prime Signature w/ Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC I Lumin U2 Mini I North Star Designs Intenso DAC I Audience OHNO ICs/Audience Furutech FP-S55N and FP-S032N Power Cables/Acoustic Zen Satori I Isotek Sirius -
I occasionally buy coffee off ebay from Macaw Coffee Roasters. If you buy a half dozen pounds or more, the prices are outstanding. They will roast just prior to shipping to you and they get it mailed soon after receiving the order.
If you want to roast your own, they also sell the green beans. My usual order is for the Jamaican Blue Mountain. I originally got their name off a post on this website several years ago. No affil, of course, just pretty happy with their product. -
A blade grinder should not even be considered a coffee grinder IMO.
My blade grinder does a great job. I can turn my beans into a powder fine enough for railing out!
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When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
What he is saying is correct though. For a consistent grind (which affects the flavor profile), the grinds need to be consistent. A blade grinder cannot provide you with a consistent medium or course grind. A fine grind for an expresso? Possibly.
A conical burr grinder can do all of the above to pretty much any size grind, consistently. Plus, they do not "burn" the beans as they grind them, again, affecting the flavor.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Jetmaker737 wrote: »Props to @treitz3 for the suggestion of the Urnex stuff. I got the descaler and cleaner and ran them through my Moccamaster yesterday. Holy cow, the junk that came out. That descaler works like crazy. I don't care to admit how long it's been since I cleaned it (OK, never in the 1.5 years I've owned it). Looks like new and the coffee tastes great.
Related point... the only reason I own a Moccamaster at all is due to a coffee maker thread here on CP a couple of years ago, lol.
More props to Tom. I also purchased the Urnex descaler and cleaner and I swear my coffee tastes better this morning.
I descaled my maker sometime in the past three months, but both the descaler and cleaner resulted in dirty water. Not nasty, but enough to know a cleaning had taken place.
I also bought the cleaning “pills” for my grinder. Can’t tell much about their effectiveness, but it seems like an easy way to clean a grinder.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
My Man!!! THAT'S, what I'm talking about!!
My blade grinder does a great job. I can turn my beans into a powder fine enough for railing out!
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Early evening coffee, cheers.
afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
Nope. Doesn’t work for espresso either.
...unless your espresso machine is using devilry and subterfuge in the form of a silicone disc in the bottom of the portafilter that artificially creates crema — and also creates a soppy mess in the portafilter, instead of a lovely hard, dry puck. 😉
I used to have a Saeco Aroma Espresso Machine and if memory serves, it had the devilry you describe. It made decent espresso, but I never cared for it much. Cleanup, yep, it was a mess. I got it for a song because it had a bad thermal fuse. Easy fix for someone who can solder. It mostly sat on my counter until I sold it on FB.
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My favorite on-the-fly station....
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
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We need to add a "shrug" button cuz I have no idea. It is a local On Cue station.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
