Coffee

Kex · April 12

Kex wrote: »

How many stores do Peet’s even have in Russia anyway?!

Just answered my own question… who knew?! 😱

Peet’s are not the “small” boutique alternative to Starbucks that might be imagined…

Russia has long been a key market for JDE Peet’s, the world’s second-largest packaged-coffee maker after Nestlé, generating some 5% of its revenue before the war. The company, whose other brands include Douwe Egberts, Senseo and Tassimo, sells coffee and tea in grocery stores in Russia but doesn’t operate cafes there.

Geoff4rfc · April 12

treitz3 wrote: »

Do you really think I give a flying....(Oh yeah, "family friendly forum" here.......*cue song*....

🎵Jimmy crack corn and I don't care.....🎵

Tom

LOL right!! I got one too. Does a coffee thread really have to be 100% exclusive??? Jimmy crack corn

PSOVLSK · April 12

Don’t know if I can bear to share the info on Peet’s with my mom. She like’s the Cafe Dominguez roast.

I just bought her a grinder and some whole bean Columbia roast from the 903 Roastery that I referenced earlier in the thread and she liked it, so maybe that will ease the blow.

skrol · April 12

During the COVID lockdown and working from home, we got more serious about coffee. I am not sure how the Mr Coffee Barista held up with 5 coffee drinkers at home but it did. Then I found a great coffee shop in Carlisle PA, Denim Coffee. I order beans from them now and can highly recommend them. They roast on Tuesdays. Then my wife stepped up my game with a Breville Bambino for Christmas.

PSOVLSK · April 12

treitz3 wrote: »

I used to LOVE Dunkin' Donuts coffee until I tasted it through the MM. Yuck!

Differing machines and processes yield differing results IME.

Funny how the same thing can be aplied to audio....

Tom

This might make for a good thread of its own, but what makes the bigger difference: the coffee or the coffee maker?

Your quote earlier in this thread got me thinking about this Tom. You obviously have a very nice machine, but you said you don’t spend a lot on coffee. A nice, revealing stereo system will let you know when you feed it a bad recording, but I’d think a nice coffee machine would bring out the best in a cheaper coffee. Maybe that’s only true down to a certain level of cheaper coffee.

So I guess my ultimate question is this, which would taste better, a good quality, freshly ground cup from a Mr. Coffee or a cup of Folgers from a Mochamaster? (We can maybe agree that neither would be very good, but which would be the better of the two options?)

treitz3 · April 12

Paul, that is a very good question. Objectively or subjectively.

Tom

PSOVLSK · April 12

Would make for a fun and interesting Saturday morning project. I would really like to hear the differing opinions on what was “best.”

billbillw · April 12

PSOVLSK wrote: »

This might make for a good thread of its own, but what makes the bigger difference: the coffee or the coffee maker?

Your quote earlier in this thread got me thinking about this Tom. You obviously have a very nice machine, but you said you don’t spend a lot on coffee. A nice, revealing stereo system will let you know when you feed it a bad recording, but I’d think a nice coffee machine would bring out the best in a cheaper coffee. Maybe that’s only true down to a certain level of cheaper coffee.

So I guess my ultimate question is this, which would taste better, a good quality, freshly ground cup from a Mr. Coffee or a cup of Folgers from a Mochamaster? (We can maybe agree that neither would be very good, but which would be the better of the two options?)

After 30 or so years of drinking coffee daily, and using 3 different grinders, a dozen or so coffee drip makers, pour overs, percolators, moka pots, french presses, espresso makers, etc., I believe the brewing method/equipment has a greater impact on the overall flavor, at least within a reasonable comparison. Folgers vs Kona Organic will probably never be a fair comparison, but comparing a good medium roast Colombian freshly ground with pre-ground Blue Mountain might surprise you. The Columbian prepared with care (whatever method you prefer), would probably taste better than Blue Mountian in a Mr. Coffee drip maker. If you are going to spend more than $15/lb of coffee, you should be grinding it fresh and making it with a high quality method.
Because I have the time, patience, and I'm cost sensitive, I choose to get the most out of a relatively inexpensive coffee.

Kex · April 12

billbillw wrote: »

If you are going to spend more than $15/lb of coffee, you should be grinding it fresh and making it with a high quality method.

One caveat, perhaps: with a decent espresso machine, pre-ground Illy for espresso machines will always be better IMO than freshly ground with the average grinder, or blade grinder, that the average kitchen provides.

stangman67 · April 13

Well seeing how your average kitchen grinder will never ever get nearly fine enough for espresso, no ****,

I bet you’d find high quality fresh ground coffee beans out of a crappy coffee maker will be better than **** coffee out of a nice machine.

There’s a reason my grinder cost more than my espresso machine, the grind is so incredibly important

treitz3 · April 13

For those that roast their own coffee beans (I have not tried this yet), I have a couple of questions for you.

1 - Do you have to get beans that are not previously roasted (special order) or do you just roast the whole beans prior to grinding?

2 - I have read that an air fryer would work to roast the beans. I take it that you place the beans on a flat pan, distribute them evenly and roast?

3 - How long do you roast them for and at what temperature?

4 - Do you grind them when still hot or do you need to let the beans cool down?

5 - Do you have to mist them with water prior to roasting?

Please advise and thanks.

Tom

billbillw · April 13

Kex wrote: »

billbillw wrote: »

If you are going to spend more than $15/lb of coffee, you should be grinding it fresh and making it with a high quality method.

One caveat, perhaps: with a decent espresso machine, pre-ground Illy for espresso machines will always be better IMO than freshly ground with the average grinder, or blade grinder, that the average kitchen provides.

A blade grinder should not even be considered a coffee grinder IMO. They are barely good enough for spices.
I should have included "a good quality grinder" as well.
By that, I mean and adjustable conical burr grinder. My Encore will do espresso grind to my satisfaction. I had a couple others that worked well, but I stuck with Baratza for parts availability.

treitz3 · April 13

Hmmm, interesting. I got curious about this and popped onto Cook's Illustrated (have to be a member) and to my surprise, there are a couple of articles that show you the science and process behind roasting green coffee beans.

To answer some of my own questions -

1 - Do you have to get beans that are not previously roasted (special order) or do you just roast the whole beans prior to grinding? - You have to special order unroasted, natural coffee beans. They will be pea green to steel gray in color. As they roast, they will turn color, as the Maillard reaction kicks in, the bean starts to turn yellow, then tan, then deeper and deeper brown.

2 - I have read that an air fryer would work to roast the beans. I take it that you place the beans on a flat pan, distribute them evenly and roast? - In my little bit of research, this is done by some people online but after reading some stuff, it appears as if this would yield differing results with each batch. They use a dedicated roaster like this;

https://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Roast-SR700-Coffee-Roaster/dp/B00I5W9OQ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&tag=akotrx02120-20

Apparently the process during the roasting of the coffee can yield differing results of flavors, even from the same batch of coffee. Another example of everything affecting everything. Airflow and temperature are not a constant during the roasting process, so it's not a set it and forget it type of cook. That nuanced trajectory, which skillful roasters shape with a carefully planned series of adjustments throughout the process, is called the roast profile. All of which, affect the final outcome/flavor of the coffee.

4 - Do you grind them when still hot or do you need to let the beans cool down? I found out that you have to air cool the beans prior to grinding.

I also read that with green beans (unroasted coffee), you can special order it at a lower cost than roasted coffee beans. However, those savings may be eaten up by shipping costs. I have a few more articles to read (which I will not do right now) but I find this fascinating and my curiosity has definitely been peaked. Here is a shot of a professional coffee roasting machine in NY...

Another tid bit of interesting information (to me) - Most modern roasters use software that translates the thermometer readings from within the machine into real-time curves that clearly illustrate the course of a roast.

Tom

billbillw · April 13

treitz3 wrote: »

For those that roast their own coffee beans (I have not tried this yet), I have a couple of questions for you.

1 - Do you have to get beans that are not previously roasted (special order) or do you just roast the whole beans prior to grinding?

2 - I have read that an air fryer would work to roast the beans. I take it that you place the beans on a flat pan, distribute them evenly and roast?

3 - How long do you roast them for and at what temperature?

4 - Do you grind them when still hot or do you need to let the beans cool down?

5 - Do you have to mist them with water prior to roasting?

Please advise and thanks.

Tom

Tom,
You would have to purchase green beans (not roasted previously). Re-roasting store bought coffee would probably result in a burnt taste.
I have a friend who does it. I can't answer all the other questions, but I know it is time consuming, requires a lot of experimenting, etc., but it is apparently quite satisfying and tasty.

treitz3 · April 13

Yeah, I think I just found me another hobby....

Anyone have any recommendations for green coffee beans? I'll have to research quite a bit on the coffee roasters. The prices and reviews are all over the place. Basically from 30 bucks up to 10K for residential coffee roasters. That's a pretty big swing!

Tom

msg · April 13

Don't do it, Tom!

Also, don't forget a dedicated circuit or AC regenerator and power cable upgrade, otherwise power delivery will be inconsistent, and your roast profile not accurately repeatable. I've seen it a million times.

maxward · April 13

1. Green beans can be bought online and at some specialty stores. Sweetmarias.com is one I use.
2. Not sure but the most basic is on the stove in a cast iron skillet.
3. Variable. Dependent on the roaster, the beans and the degree of darkness desired. My roasts take 10-12 minutes per batch. There’s software available to allow different ‘profiles’ of temperature used during the roast. Can be very nerdy.
4. Beans should rest about a day before brewing drip. Longer resting is better for espresso.
5. No. Although some mist beans prior to grinding to reduce static and grinds flying around. Some grinders are more prone to this and misting reduces the mess.

It can be another rabbit hole, but fun.

treitz3 · April 13

Cool website. Thanks for sharing that! I can definitely see how this is going to turn into a rabbit hole.

I see that shipping is included. That's nice. Their selection is vast!

Tom

treitz3 · April 13

Well, I just now started this journey with my first purchase. After reading many reviews, I came across this book by Scott Rao, who has consulted for many of the world's finest roasters. Figured I'd start here. I can finish up the articles on Cook's Illustrated in the meantime.

Tom

Jetmaker737 · April 13

Props to @treitz3 for the suggestion of the Urnex stuff. I got the descaler and cleaner and ran them through my Moccamaster yesterday. Holy cow, the junk that came out. That descaler works like crazy. I don't care to admit how long it's been since I cleaned it (OK, never in the 1.5 years I've owned it). Looks like new and the coffee tastes great.

Related point... the only reason I own a Moccamaster at all is due to a coffee maker thread here on CP a couple of years ago, lol.

maxward · April 13

The Scott Rao book is supposed to be very comprehensive. I saw some posts by him in a coffee forum in which he wishes he covered some topics better. So I’m thinking he may have a second edition out at some point. I started out roasting with a Freshroast similar to that picture posted by @treitz3. I then got a Behmor roaster which is a hybrid of the fluid bed (hot air) style of the Freshroast and drum roasters. Then got a used Quest M3, which is a miniature drum roaster. You can roast excellent coffee with any of them. Many start out with a modified hot air popcorn popper. Have fun, Tom. Even when you screw up a roast, your coffee will always be fresh.

treitz3 · April 13

Hmmm, I like the sounds of that roaster. All manual. Replaceable parts. Disassembles in minutes, Access to all parts. The only thing I didn't like about it is that it isn't recommended for just doing one batch because of the wear and tear of the drum (according to the manufacturer). Bummer, as I would have to vac seal and freeze the coffee because I wouldn't want it to go bad before I had a chance to use it......and I have no idea where to get a one way seal to let out the carbon dioxide but keep the oxygen in.....or how I would even attach it to a vac sealed bag.

@maxward - Would you recommend the M3? I did read some reviews of the one that CI recommended (pictured above by me and no longer available) and one of the biggest turnoffs was that it worked great for once you had your roasting profile, but when you were still in the development/experimenting stage, you had to go back, hook up the computer and override previous settings. Plus, I read that it wasn't the most user friendly instructions and program.....so that one's out of the running.

I do have one more question for you - I can see why you would want one thermometer but I am a little stumped at why you would want to hook up two. What does each probe measure?

Okay, maybe three questions - is the sampler easy and fast to take a look at a sample, as it is roasting? And I see that it has a window but my question is this - Is it actually useful to judge the stage the roast....or is this what you use the sampler for?

Tom

treitz3 · April 13

Jetmaker737 wrote: »

Related point... the only reason I own a Moccamaster at all is due to a coffee maker thread here on CP a couple of years ago, lol.

Found it. https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/194797/coffee

@maxward - Gots another question for ya' (since you have apparently been doing this a while). You had mentioned in the thread from 2021 that you buy/roast mostly African beans. Is this still the case or have you discovered something else from another country that rocks your boat?

Tom

treitz3 · April 13

....and for even more reading pleasure, a 9 page thread from back in 2015 about coffee - https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/168412/pour-over-coffee-maker-anyone

Tom

maxward · April 13

I think that the comment about roasting only one batch being harmful is BS. You will likely roast multiple batches in any case. They are rugged, well-made little roasters. They take modifications well, too. They are not cheap and hold their value well.

Mine came with three thermocouples installed, along with the connectors (Phidgets?)to attach to a laptop and use Artisan, the popular roasting software. I don’t have Artisan and am in no big hurry to get it. I like using my senses and time/temperature readings from the thermocouples. The Quest has a nice sight window and a little trier you can pull a few beans out of the drum and see/smell them. Artisan is set up to monitor time and temperature from three thermocouples and plot the progress of the roast. One is maximum environmental temperature (MET) and is outside the drum near the heating elements. One is environmental temperature (ET) in the drum, but up high. The third is bean temperature (BT), also in the drum, but low and within the mass of tumbling beans. I have MET and BT connected to my meters and only occasionally check ET, but I might buy another meter.

I’m sure Mr. Rao’s book will answer any questions that you have. I might get a copy for myself. Good luck.

treitz3 · April 13

maxward wrote: »

I think that the comment about roasting only one batch being harmful is BS.

Thanks. I kind of figured that may be the case. I couldn't really think of anything that would be damaged but the manufacturer states it in their literature, so I figured I'd mention it. I like that they make you sign a document before you buy that you are an experienced roaster. I guess they had too many rookies trying to return them after botching batch after batch.

Tom

maxward · April 13

…or catching their beans on fire!

maxward · April 13

@treitz3 I just caught your question about beans. Yes. I currently have green beans from Africa: Ethiopia, Tanzania and Burundi. I do buy beans from elsewhere, mostly from Central and South America. Got some nice Kona when we visited Hawaii years ago.

stangman67 · April 13

This is another way I enjoy coffee.

Espresso martini with a fresh pulled shot, currently pulling shots with Good Citizen Palmera out of Nashville.

Recipe is:
1oz espresso
1oz vodka
1oz baileys
.5oz rum
1oz simple syrup
Splash of milk

stangman67 · April 13

I haven’t gone down the rabbit hole of roasting yet, but I’ve looked into it. I have too many hobbies…

Coffee

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