Group-buy-2019-dreadnought-avel-lindberg-1000va-isolation-transformers

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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,992
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    Now that the order has been placed, we'll likely have a ton of questions on construction. And I have a few of my own.

    On my den and beach rigs, I have been using MIT Shotgun3 speaker cables and Canare 4s11 Dreadnought cables, Neutrik Speakon at both ends. Recently, I bought some used MIT Terminator 4 cables, thinking they might be a better match on the Dreadnought with the S3's for speakers. My questions:
    • How likely is it that the Terminator 4's will be an improvement over Canare 4s11?
    • Should I leave the network boxes in place?
    • If yes, should they go on the DN side?
    • Are there any particular challenges converting from spades/bananas to Speakon connectors?
    Thanks for any help,
    Craig
    Beach Audio: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
    Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
    Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
    Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
    Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
    Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
    Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 6,079
    edited January 2019
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    vcwatkins wrote: »
    Now that the order has been placed, we'll likely have a ton of questions on construction. And I have a few of my own.

    On my den and beach rigs, I have been using MIT Shotgun3 speaker cables and Canare 4s11 Dreadnought cables, Neutrik Speakon at both ends. Recently, I bought some used MIT Terminator 4 cables, thinking they might be a better match on the Dreadnought with the S3's for speakers. My questions:
    • How likely is it that the Terminator 4's will be an improvement over Canare 4s11?
    • Should I leave the network boxes in place?
    • If yes, should they go on the DN side?
    • Are there any particular challenges converting from spades/bananas to Speakon connectors?
    Thanks for any help,
    Craig

    Aren't Terminator 4's unidirectional?

    I used the speakons with the faston terminals so I had the capability of soldering on the female ends.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre Upgraded with Mundorf Supremes
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,428
    edited January 2019
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    ^^^^I just went through the chore of using MIT T4's for my dreadnaught speakon interconnects. To me it was worth the hassle and it was indeed quite the chore as my T4's are bi-wires. The MIT wires are a struggle to work with and you'll need time, patience and a soldering iron to tip the ends. You'll have remove the spades or banana's and you'll just be using the MIT wire. At the advice of f1nut I didn't use the network boxes. I believe this was an upgrade over the Sonic Impact wire I was using. Was it night and day? No it wasn't but it was an upgrade and every bit helps imo. As far as the T4's being an upgrade over the Canares I can vouch for that being an upgrade as well. I upgraded from Canare speaker wire to the T4's quite a while back and that is how I started down the road to an all MIT path. I went from the terminator series to the shotgun series and this is why I had an extra set of T4's waiting to be used for something. The dreadnaught itself is where the big sound upgrade is though. That one is impossible to overlook and will transform your rig.
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  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,509
    edited January 2019
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    vcwatkins wrote: »
    • How likely is it that the Terminator 4's will be an improvement over Canare 4s11?
    • Should I leave the network boxes in place?
    • If yes, should they go on the DN side?
    • Are there any particular challenges converting from spades/bananas to Speakon connectors?

    @vcwatkins, @F1nut
    Craig, hope you don't mind me jumping in on your questions...I have similar questions for my 1.2tl's. I'm using MIT Shotgun S1 bi-wire on my speakers and EXP1's as the IC for my current dreadnought (purchased during the B-Stock sale several years ago). Going to setup the new dreadnought with Neutrik connections vs. the Cardas binding posts in use on the 2 I have.

    Jesse, I think I remember you worked w/MIT to build your own IC from bulk cable, so, in addition to Craig's questions...
    • The MIT's are directional...which direction for the wire from the dreadnought to the IC connection on the speaker? (amp to speaker vs. speaker to amp, printed on the cable)
    • Thoughts on potential benefit of doubling up 2 EXP pairs on each run?
    • Should I eliminate the "secret sauce" box on the cable and run straight wire?
    • Thoughts on Canare vs. MIT wire?
    • Or....should I source new wire from MIT of = caliber to the Shotgun S1's, perhaps the EXP's are the same?
    Current system is PS Audio:
    1. BHK Signature Preamp
    2. BHK 250 power amp
    3. Directstream DAC
    IC's are all MIT balanced S3.3's. Additionally, I'd like to redo the 1.2's internal wiring harnesses at some point.

    Appreciate any insight you guys might have.

    John

    p.s. @Viking64 Made you look...TLDR...LOL, again. Just tell me to knock it off if I'm being annoying :smiley:
    ➀Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) ➁Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio PMG Signature Pre, BHK Signature 250, PMG Signature 512 ➂Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S3.3 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" ➃Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant ➄Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends ➅Streaming: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC, TP-Link WAP, & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,992
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    Thanks guys! I was able to find a thread where F1 was selling Terminator cable for Dreadnought use to confirm what you've said above.
    F1nut wrote: »
    I have a quantity of MIT bi-wire speaker cable available for making custom AI-1/Dreadnaught cables. This is labeled MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire and comes with a light gray Techflex type braided sleeve outer cover. This is bulk cable, there are no network boxes (can't be used with the AI-1/Dreadnaught anyway) and is not terminated allowing you to choose your preferred method. The wire and the wiring configuration are exactly the same as the Shotgun cables, which in bulk from MIT is $50.00 a foot. This will be considerably less.
    So it sounds like the Terminator 4 might be a very good match for the Shotgun3 and the boxes definitely come off, as you guys advised above. My wire looks to be the same biwire (purchased here)

    I'll give it a spin in the next week or so and will TRY to be patient, hehe. One of my cases is binding post, so I may terminate just one end with Neutrik for the speakers and keep the amp end bananas for the binding post Dreadnought.

    Thanks a million for the swell advice!

    Beach Audio: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
    Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
    Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
    Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
    Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
    Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
    Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,428
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    ^^^^^Your intended pair is the same model I used vcwatkins. One thing I forgot to mention is you're going to need to hog the hole out on the Neutrik as the bi-wired T4's are a bit too large. I very carefully used a step drill and went up 3 notches. This was more than I wanted to do but 2 steps wasn't quite enough. Good luck to you
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,327
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    @dskip would the wireworld bulk cable work for this as well?
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,219
    edited January 2019
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    You mean some of you guys are going a different route than Neutrik Speakon cables. I will be paying close attention to what all of you end up doing.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • Unknown
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    edited January 2019
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,327
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    @pitdogg2. Right now I'm only using aq type 4 and wireworld jumpers. I am down for anything! I will change speaker cables eventually.
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,992
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    motorstereo wrote: »
    ^^^^^Your intended pair is the same model I used vcwatkins. One thing I forgot to mention is you're going to need to hog the hole out on the Neutrik as the bi-wired T4's are a bit too large. I very carefully used a step drill and went up 3 notches. This was more than I wanted to do but 2 steps wasn't quite enough. Good luck to you
    Gotcha, thanks. I thought it looked like it would be a difficult fit. Ordering a couple extra Neutriks, hehe.
    Beach Audio: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
    Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
    Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
    Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
    Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
    Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
    Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,219
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    That's my plan going with Neutriks just like on my 800 VA.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
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  • Unknown
    Unknown
    edited January 2019
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 770
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    Touching base with Westmas guy to see if it fits into my 800 va box.......will get back asap!
    VR3 SDA SRS 1.2TL Duelund Monoliths+VR31000va Dreadnaught +VR3 MM2 SDA cable, <3 ,Lumin u2x ,<-sfp fibre <-LHYas8 Pro+ Switch,Transparent Reference MM2 xlr,power and speaker cables.FTA Sinope SE usb.40 Amp power line for amp with earth stake&Faraday shield ,20 Amp power line for digital equipment ->shunyata 8 venom power board...Working on it!
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
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    ptrooper wrote: »
    Touching base with Westmas guy to see if it fits into my 800 va box.......will get back asap!

    From Raife's @DarqueKnight Dreadnought Part 2 thread:
    3jknrclj9kor.png

    Should fit the Hammond Box
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
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  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 770
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    Thank you Sir ,I will definitely jump into the group buy : )

    VR3 SDA SRS 1.2TL Duelund Monoliths+VR31000va Dreadnaught +VR3 MM2 SDA cable, <3 ,Lumin u2x ,<-sfp fibre <-LHYas8 Pro+ Switch,Transparent Reference MM2 xlr,power and speaker cables.FTA Sinope SE usb.40 Amp power line for amp with earth stake&Faraday shield ,20 Amp power line for digital equipment ->shunyata 8 venom power board...Working on it!
    · Share on Facebook
  • Unknown
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    edited January 2019
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 6,079
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    DSkip wrote: »
    Thought - if there is interest in a bulk purchase I could ask Larry if they’d consider doing a small run of like the mini eclipse already terminated with neutrik.

    Put me on that list....
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre Upgraded with Mundorf Supremes
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
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    Wow, how cool is this! I've been tuned out for a bit, buried in construction at the house I bought a year ago. Glad to see another group buy going strong! And glad I'm not running it!!! The last one I did went off the rails.....
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
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    Fun times - can we rename this thread "Group Buys Gone Wild!" The action starts on page 8 towards the bottom. If anyone wants to see a case study in how to get yourself banned from Club Polk, here it is:

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/162344/dreadnaught-avel-lindberg-1000va-transformer-group-buy/p8
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • ThomasD
    ThomasD Posts: 260
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    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/162344/dreadnaught-avel-lindberg-1000va-transformer-group-buy/p8[/quote]
    Wow, just wow. That was an interesting read. This GB was a sunday walk in the park compared to the drama in that one.
    Carver M4.0t, M1.0t, M200t, TX2, C1, C2, Marantz 2230, 2010, 4070, 1030, APPJ 2013, Rega Brio, Marantz Imperial 7's, Klipsch Heresy III, Quartets, KG4's, KG1's, 'The Sixes', R-12SW, Polk SDA 2a's, Monitor 7cTL's, SDA CRS's, 4a's, Zu Audio Dirty Weekends, Pro-ject Acryl TT, Cambridge 851N, 351C, Panamax 5300PM
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  • ThomasD
    ThomasD Posts: 260
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    Though, sadly there is apparently a current issue with a long term member here that was also somewhat involved in that discussion. But on the positive side that member has a strong support group of 'Polkies' here on the forum. I'm not involved in it but am always glad to see 'common sense' solidarity among the many members here. B)B)
    Carver M4.0t, M1.0t, M200t, TX2, C1, C2, Marantz 2230, 2010, 4070, 1030, APPJ 2013, Rega Brio, Marantz Imperial 7's, Klipsch Heresy III, Quartets, KG4's, KG1's, 'The Sixes', R-12SW, Polk SDA 2a's, Monitor 7cTL's, SDA CRS's, 4a's, Zu Audio Dirty Weekends, Pro-ject Acryl TT, Cambridge 851N, 351C, Panamax 5300PM
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  • westmassguy
    westmassguy Posts: 6,850
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    nspindel wrote: »
    Fun times - can we rename this thread "Group Buys Gone Wild!" The action starts on page 8 towards the bottom. If anyone wants to see a case study in how to get yourself banned from Club Polk, here it is:

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/162344/dreadnaught-avel-lindberg-1000va-transformer-group-buy/p8

    Hey Neil! That was indeed a train wreck
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
    Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
    Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
    Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
    Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer

    dhsspeakerservice.com/
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,761
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    Man, was it really 2014 when that all enemy down? Seems like yesterday...
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
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    It’s good to see y’all. The past year has been a wild ride. We bought the house and then decided to re-do the entire thing! So 3 bathrooms, a kitchen, 4 bedrooms, a living room and dining room later, I’m here to say hi! Haven’t been very focused on audio with all that’s been going on. But the interior work is just about done, now is the fun part - the pool and the landscaping!

    Just for kicks I went back through that mess of a group buy thread. It gets interesting again on page 12 when he pipes back in. I forgot about the whole part where he called AL directly and tried to muscle his way into the group but through back channels. And then he accused me of only being in it for the air miles. All $52 worth. And that led me to a Githens donation as a result. Definitely an entertaining read!

    I miss George Grand. In fact, that’s worthy of a new thread....
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • vcwatkins
    vcwatkins Posts: 1,992
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    Good to see you Neil. Yeah, that was head-shaking stuff handled superbly by you. The guy's immodest self-destruction is pretty hilarious in retrospect (also illustrates the shift in admin since that time IMO).

    I hope you'll return often. You are responsible for several positive steps in my audio journey.
    Beach Audio: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
    Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
    Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
    Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
    Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
    Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
    Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet
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  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,428
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    Wow Neil I had forgotten how much of a jerk that guy was and yes indeed you did handle it superbly. Thanks to that group purchase that you handled so well for us I've been able to use and enjoy monoblocks on my 1.2s ever since. It's been a few years since that group buy but my ears still thank you.
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