Lumin X1
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
Valvo Hamburg tubes are only E88CC and are very rare.
First line of code will be 7Lx which identifies it as an E88CC
Second line of code will start with a Dxx or Dxxx.
Remember this tube is a late comer to the party compared to the typical signal tubes like 6SL7; 6SN7; ECC81; ECC82; ECC83, etc.
The earliest tube is from about 1957.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
This is general information for the Euro made tubes by Holland, Munich and Hamburg Germany and England.
The first one is Ei Nis ( Elektronska Industrija) tube made in Yugoslavia in the late 70's early 80's. They made some consistently good tubes considered current stock then. The earlier the better as by the late 80's quality slipped. They supposedly bought Telefunken machinery and materials.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
Ain't doing any good standing on your table, or desk, or what have you.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
@Clipdat - Stay tuned, this is where I got a ton of startup knowledge on tubes. I knew a little when I started, and, still know very little, but, it's certainly not for lack of good info shared here. Some great forum members have been very generous in their help, some even sharing tubes so I could get an idea of that particular tubes "flavor." There is a learning curve for home audio tubes, but, it's a fun journey and can be very eye opening. What I once looked at as a "hassle" and, possibly daunting, I now consider fun and something I look forward to. It's amazing what can happen to your sound from one set of tubes to the next.
LET THE FUN BEGIN!
Nice post. This is a great thread to which I have zero knowledge of. Great well experienced members here.
Keep us posted on your journey Clip.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
DAC: Bricasti M1SE
Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7
Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
Yeah, don't remind me. Not looking forward to it. People in my neighborhood love to set of these huge mortars for several days leading up to and after the 4th. My skittish cat gets really freaked out and scared by it every year, feel so bad for him.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
Yeah, don't remind me. Not looking forward to it. People in my neighborhood love to set of these huge mortars for several days leading up to and after the 4th. My skittish cat gets really freaked out and scared by it every year, feel so bad for him.
Our old neighbors would have real fireworks (AKA missiles) that they would shoot directly above our house, making it pretty much impossible to go outside every night unless we wanted to get rained on with burning ash. They would do this for one to two weeks. Ruby (our St. Bernard) was always so so scared. It was defeaning even inside the house. And on the actual night of the fourth, they would have a huge party involving fireworks, ATVs, and beer. Two years ago they flipped the ATV twice, and two of them were sent to the hospital for being basically blown to bits when one held a Roman Candle and pointed it at himself and his friend. Thank goodness they are gone.
Micah
Not Tom or Trey or Jim just Micah
Martin Logan LX16s, NAD 1155 preamp and 4155 tuner courtesy of DaddyJT, NAD C352 playing power amp, BJC Belden cables, Technics SL3200, Marantz CD6004 CD player and Audio Technica cartridge courtesy of Drew/Clipdat, Salamander Archetype rack
I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
I finally hooked the Njoe Tjoeb up in my main rig today and I'm taking a listen to it now with the Gold Aero tubes that were in there. Figured I should get a baseline of how the player sounds with these tubes, so I have a frame of reference before I swap in the Siemens tubes.
After things have warmed up, it's sounding pretty damn good. Definitely getting some nice palpable 3D stereo imaging effects, and it seems like voices/midrange are somewhat accented. I can easily hear all the vocals thanks to the clarity, and they sound sublime. Highs might be slightly "rolled off" or not as crisp as some of my solid state CD players. Musicality is high, the sound has a certain "ease" and smooth flow to it.
So, having nothing to really compare them to, I think these tubes that it came with are damn good! Things are sounding very nice to my ears at the moment.
I'll be surprised if the NOS Siemens pair can improve on how things are sounding right now. Interesting!
Post edited by Clipdat on
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
I was thinking more about this in general terms, and comparing the sound of a tube buffered DAC/CDP with a traditional solid state piece.
I think the tube must add some level of "smoothness" to the sound, at perhaps the expense of some detail or maybe soundstage width (depending on the tube).
My experience thus far with this player and a tube DAC is that the music just sounds "good". It's more enjoyable to me. There's a "naturalness" to the sound that is hard to describe. I think I might be starting to understand the allure of tubes.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
It might just be the gear/tubes that I'm using then. Admittedly, not very high end stuff. By soundstage, I just meant that the sound seems a little flatter and not quite as wide. A little bit more compressed. More "localized" to the speaker.
A reduction in detail might be a stretch. Everything is still definitely there, it's just being presented differently. I can still hear everything. However, there's not as much hyper critical detail almost to the point of being "etched" like there is with my Rotel RCD-1072 for example.
You don't have to sacrifice detail or soundstage with a tube piece. Just a matter of finding the right piece...and the right tubes to put in it.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
Interestingly enough, even for very electronic music like psy trance, which has basically no resemblance to any real musical instruments, the tubed CDP seems to add more texture and grace. The layers of sounds just sound even more lush and intricate.
So it's not just traditional music with vocalists and stringed/wind instruments that seem to "benefit" from tubes.
I say "benefit" subjectively, as some might not like this sort of presentation.
I'm still at the very tip of the tube iceberg, but I used to think that tubes were just a way to color/eq the sound. It's definitely different than that, it's hard to describe using words, versus just hearing it for yourself.
I also used to think "Why would anyone want something that has measurably more "distortion" and isn't as accurate as solid state?" Well, now I'm starting to understand why.
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
You're making progress. Tubes add soul! It's a deep, but fun rabbit hole.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
One of the things that fascinates me is that this glowing bunch of wires/plates and coatings inside a vacuum sealed glass envelope is still operating as new 40-50-60 years later. So many still around in very good to excellent condition.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
One of the things that fascinates me is that this glowing bunch of wires/plates and coatings inside a vacuum sealed glass envelope is still operating as new 40-50-60 years later. So many still around in very good to excellent condition.
H9
Vacuum packed for freshness
Plenty of tubes out there in good working order that are considerably older than 60. Heck, I've got, and use, some early 1940s vintage 6SN7s that are mighty fine... and I know folks (with deeper pockets than mine) that are rockin' things like globe 45s that are considerably older than that.
Listening to this player again and continuing to be impressed.
If nothing else, it's worth buying one of these on sight just to experience for yourself the great stereo imaging it has. So very nice!
"Electronic music is human sound adapting to indulge technology, and for some, it feels like the signature sound of energy. New and abstract sounds over hypnotic rhythms can conjure vast soundscapes for escape, pleasure, and transcendence."
Yeah, don't remind me. Not looking forward to it. People in my neighborhood love to set of these huge mortars for several days leading up to and after the 4th. My skittish cat gets really freaked out and scared by it every year, feel so bad for him.
Our old neighbors would have real fireworks (AKA missiles) that they would shoot directly above our house, making it pretty much impossible to go outside every night unless we wanted to get rained on with burning ash. They would do this for one to two weeks. Ruby (our St. Bernard) was always so so scared. It was defeaning even inside the house. And on the actual night of the fourth, they would have a huge party involving fireworks, ATVs, and beer. Two years ago they flipped the ATV twice, and two of them were sent to the hospital for being basically blown to bits when one held a Roman Candle and pointed it at himself and his friend. Thank goodness they are gone.
Micah
Ok so I was reading this thread and these last two sentences sound terrible! That is not at all what I meant, the two guys are ok, and they moved away two years ago.
Not Tom or Trey or Jim just Micah
Martin Logan LX16s, NAD 1155 preamp and 4155 tuner courtesy of DaddyJT, NAD C352 playing power amp, BJC Belden cables, Technics SL3200, Marantz CD6004 CD player and Audio Technica cartridge courtesy of Drew/Clipdat, Salamander Archetype rack
I've always thought the goal of high-end audio was not to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Turn that darn music down' but to have your neighbors bang on the wall and say, 'Tell your friends to go home and you can practice later this week'.
Comments
Lumin X1
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
First line of code will be 7Lx which identifies it as an E88CC
Second line of code will start with a Dxx or Dxxx.
Remember this tube is a late comer to the party compared to the typical signal tubes like 6SL7; 6SN7; ECC81; ECC82; ECC83, etc.
The earliest tube is from about 1957.
H9
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
They (EI) had like wars and stuff to work around
... or ask Robin Williams.
(I think you have to watch, or skip, to ca. 3' 45" to see why I posted this clip)
I'll get them swapped in soon, but I'm evaluating some other gear right now that is taking precedence.
Amateur...
At using the quote feature:)
Nice post. This is a great thread to which I have zero knowledge of. Great well experienced members here.
Keep us posted on your journey Clip.
Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
DAC: Bricasti M1SE
Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
Amp1: W4S MC-5, AMP2: W4S MMC-7
Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
I expect you'll be hearing a lot of pops, bangs, thuds, and various other noises during this time period...
Vinyl: Fluance RT82 * Nagaoka MP-110 * Bottlehead Reduction + Integration Upgrade * KAB RF1
Vinyl II: Audio Technica AT-LP120X USB * AT120Eb * ART DJ Pre II * Acrylic Turntable Mat
Video: Hisense 55H8F * Panasonic DMP-UB200 * ROKU Streaming Stick + * Z-line Designs Elektra
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Our old neighbors would have real fireworks (AKA missiles) that they would shoot directly above our house, making it pretty much impossible to go outside every night unless we wanted to get rained on with burning ash. They would do this for one to two weeks. Ruby (our St. Bernard) was always so so scared. It was defeaning even inside the house. And on the actual night of the fourth, they would have a huge party involving fireworks, ATVs, and beer. Two years ago they flipped the ATV twice, and two of them were sent to the hospital for being basically blown to bits when one held a Roman Candle and pointed it at himself and his friend. Thank goodness they are gone.
Micah
Martin Logan LX16s, NAD 1155 preamp and 4155 tuner courtesy of DaddyJT, NAD C352 playing power amp, BJC Belden cables, Technics SL3200, Marantz CD6004 CD player and Audio Technica cartridge courtesy of Drew/Clipdat, Salamander Archetype rack
After things have warmed up, it's sounding pretty damn good. Definitely getting some nice palpable 3D stereo imaging effects, and it seems like voices/midrange are somewhat accented. I can easily hear all the vocals thanks to the clarity, and they sound sublime. Highs might be slightly "rolled off" or not as crisp as some of my solid state CD players. Musicality is high, the sound has a certain "ease" and smooth flow to it.
So, having nothing to really compare them to, I think these tubes that it came with are damn good! Things are sounding very nice to my ears at the moment.
I'll be surprised if the NOS Siemens pair can improve on how things are sounding right now. Interesting!
I think the tube must add some level of "smoothness" to the sound, at perhaps the expense of some detail or maybe soundstage width (depending on the tube).
My experience thus far with this player and a tube DAC is that the music just sounds "good". It's more enjoyable to me. There's a "naturalness" to the sound that is hard to describe. I think I might be starting to understand the allure of tubes.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
A reduction in detail might be a stretch. Everything is still definitely there, it's just being presented differently. I can still hear everything. However, there's not as much hyper critical detail almost to the point of being "etched" like there is with my Rotel RCD-1072 for example.
So it's not just traditional music with vocalists and stringed/wind instruments that seem to "benefit" from tubes.
I say "benefit" subjectively, as some might not like this sort of presentation.
I'm still at the very tip of the tube iceberg, but I used to think that tubes were just a way to color/eq the sound. It's definitely different than that, it's hard to describe using words, versus just hearing it for yourself.
I also used to think "Why would anyone want something that has measurably more "distortion" and isn't as accurate as solid state?" Well, now I'm starting to understand why.
H9
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
H9
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
Vacuum packed for freshness
Plenty of tubes out there in good working order that are considerably older than 60. Heck, I've got, and use, some early 1940s vintage 6SN7s that are mighty fine... and I know folks (with deeper pockets than mine) that are rockin' things like globe 45s that are considerably older than that.
My favorite 6SN7's
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
If nothing else, it's worth buying one of these on sight just to experience for yourself the great stereo imaging it has. So very nice!
Ok so I was reading this thread and these last two sentences sound terrible! That is not at all what I meant, the two guys are ok, and they moved away two years ago.
Martin Logan LX16s, NAD 1155 preamp and 4155 tuner courtesy of DaddyJT, NAD C352 playing power amp, BJC Belden cables, Technics SL3200, Marantz CD6004 CD player and Audio Technica cartridge courtesy of Drew/Clipdat, Salamander Archetype rack