It's a journey. You learn and discover as you gain experience and knowledge. Some gear really sings with tube rolling, some gear doesn't as much. Some tubes are night and day, some aren't.
Spatial cues and midrange (like in a familiar vocal song), drive are the first things I noticed. I had one EL34 integrated early in my journey that was also tube rectified with a GZ34. Swapping in a Mullard GZ34 really upped the drive and lows of the amp, like no other rectifier. I wasn't really listening for that, but it was pretty apparent.
You need to use music you are very familiar with, otherwise it's hard to tell the differences. I have a set of demo music that I am intimately familiar with. That's the music I use for evaluation of gear, tubes, caps, etc.
The cdp has a great rep, so I would assume good things.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
If you don't hear a difference, you may save yourself a lot of money in the long run.
(and I am not being facetious)
Why invest in sound you cannot hear?
Well -- it may not be the best on line forum for such a disclosure
On the subject of wires: I suspect that if you ignore things like price and brand name and simply try some different wires... you'll actually hear some differences. It may be hard to decide what is better; "better" can be a moving target. Actually, I guess better is a moving target by definition
Just my own opinion on the topic, be it wires or tubes or amplifiers or whatever: Don't get wrapped up in the wrong aspects of the game. Things like price and brand name and aesthetics are surrogate markers (as we tend to say in my line of work) for more important issues.
I've definitely heard differences in cables. That's why I tend to like the sound of these Audioquest King Cobra RCAs that I'm using currently.
It's just that in that one situation, I couldn't discern any difference between a Monoprice vs. the very expensive cable. If anything, you'd think that knowing the high price per meter would subconsciously influence my perception and thus I would consider it to be "better", but nope.
Just keep and open mind, and find your own path. Some people are more discerning listeners. Some are just casual listeners. Some are more curious than others. Some are satisfied once a certain level is reached, etc, etc.
As long as you give whatever aspect of the hobby an honest try, no one can tell you whether you're right or wrong. All I am doing is trying to relate my experiences to the forum. I know some think I'm crazy for the way I have totally immersed myself in tubes the past 10 years.
It's been fascinating and rewarding and I've learned a lot. The "olden" days were pretty cool, we are loosing some of that today with iTunes and the generic playback hardware. Convenience far outweighs performance these days when it comes to music delivery.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
Ivan, I knew exactly what to listen for in that situation. Specifically it was an obnoxious electrical humming/buzzing noise that could be heard several feet away.
Just keep and open mind, and find your own path. Some people are more discerning listeners. Some are just casual listeners. Some are more curious than others. Some are satisfied once a certain level is reached, etc, etc.
As long as you give whatever aspect of the hobby an honest try, no one can tell you whether you're right or wrong. All I am doing is trying to relate my experiences to the forum. I know some think I'm crazy for the way I have totally immersed myself in tubes the past 10 years.
It's been fascinating and rewarding and I've learned a lot. The "olden" days were pretty cool, we are loosing some of that today with iTunes and the generic playback hardware. Convenience far outweighs performance these days when it comes to music delivery.
H9
I - personally - find the modern platforms way harder to navigate than tapes and rekkids (and even CDs)... so many options, and they all seem to need tweaks and, of course, as soon as one gets used to something, there's a new s/w rev and it changes.
Guess I better go chase some punk kids off my lawn and yell at a cloud, now.
Ivan, I knew exactly what to listen for in that situation. Specifically it was an obnoxious electrical humming/buzzing noise that could be heard several feet away.
I suspect he's referring to the Phoenix, umm Monoprice.
Nope McCormick
oops, sorry! What's the deal with "the McCormick"? I am, not uncharacteristically, clueless.
Man doc...there was about 1000 posts about that McCormick amp Drew got that stunk, hummed and whined. His wife couldn't even stand the noise.
The store he bought it from kind-of didn't want to give him his money back. It was a touch and go situation that had all of us hooked to his dilemma like a person who's hooked on some great daily soap or series on TV. Just like your amp from Dave! We all watch daily for the next episode.
Research McCormick with Drew as the poster probably.
A lot of us felt for Drew. A lot felt for the amp reselling store since they had bought some things from them. It was intense sometimes. But it worked out for Drew.
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
We had a little fun with, and at the expense of, Clipdat with that situation. It's all good, as they say. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this unit, as well as your experience with the tubes you try, during this part of the journey....wait...
is that a hum I hear developing in the right channel???
This is general information for the Euro made tubes by Holland, Munich and Hamburg Germany and England.
The first one is Ei Nis ( Elektronska Industrija) tube made in Yugoslavia in the late 70's early 80's. They made some consistently good tubes considered current stock then. The earlier the better as by the late 80's quality slipped. They supposedly bought Telefunken machinery and materials.
not sure on the 2nd one. Have to see it.
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S-Tubes add soul!
The first one is EI Nis ( Elektronska Industrija) tube made in Yugoslavia in the late 70's early 80's. They made some consistently good tubes considered current stock then. The earlier the better as by the late 80's quality slipped. They supposedly bought Telefunken machinery and materials.
Comments
Spatial cues and midrange (like in a familiar vocal song), drive are the first things I noticed. I had one EL34 integrated early in my journey that was also tube rectified with a GZ34. Swapping in a Mullard GZ34 really upped the drive and lows of the amp, like no other rectifier. I wasn't really listening for that, but it was pretty apparent.
You need to use music you are very familiar with, otherwise it's hard to tell the differences. I have a set of demo music that I am intimately familiar with. That's the music I use for evaluation of gear, tubes, caps, etc.
The cdp has a great rep, so I would assume good things.
H9
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
If you don't hear a difference, you may save yourself a lot of money in the long run.
(and I am not being facetious)
Why invest in sound you cannot hear?
As the title of one of Richard Feynman's autobiographies (no lack of self-esteem for Feynman!
Well -- it may not be the best on line forum for such a disclosure
On the subject of wires: I suspect that if you ignore things like price and brand name and simply try some different wires... you'll actually hear some
differences. It may be hard to decide what is better; "better" can be a moving target. Actually, I guess better is a moving target by definition
Just my own opinion on the topic, be it wires or tubes or amplifiers or whatever: Don't get wrapped up in the wrong aspects of the game. Things like price and brand name and aesthetics are surrogate markers (as we tend to say in my line of work) for more important issues.
It's just that in that one situation, I couldn't discern any difference between a Monoprice vs. the very expensive cable. If anything, you'd think that knowing the high price per meter would subconsciously influence my perception and thus I would consider it to be "better", but nope.
As long as you give whatever aspect of the hobby an honest try, no one can tell you whether you're right or wrong. All I am doing is trying to relate my experiences to the forum. I know some think I'm crazy for the way I have totally immersed myself in tubes the past 10 years.
It's been fascinating and rewarding and I've learned a lot. The "olden" days were pretty cool, we are loosing some of that today with iTunes and the generic playback hardware. Convenience far outweighs performance these days when it comes to music delivery.
H9
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
I - personally - find the modern platforms way harder to navigate than tapes and rekkids (and even CDs)... so many options, and they all seem to need tweaks and, of course, as soon as one gets used to something, there's a new s/w rev and it changes.
Guess I better go chase some punk kids off my lawn and yell at a cloud, now.
Ummmm.....what?
Nope McCormick
oops, sorry! What's the deal with "the McCormick"? I am, not uncharacteristically, clueless.
Yeah, I knew the subject. I was just in awe of the execution. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I was thinking of the Firebomb when I read that post!
Man doc...there was about 1000 posts about that McCormick amp Drew got that stunk, hummed and whined. His wife couldn't even stand the noise.
The store he bought it from kind-of didn't want to give him his money back. It was a touch and go situation that had all of us hooked to his dilemma like a person who's hooked on some great daily soap or series on TV. Just like your amp from Dave! We all watch daily for the next episode.
Research McCormick with Drew as the poster probably.
A lot of us felt for Drew. A lot felt for the amp reselling store since they had bought some things from them. It was intense sometimes.
Because all of that, it lead to me getting my Dayens Ampino Monoblocks and I couldn't be happier with them.
You definitely have some GREAT SOUNDING amps in those Dayens. Exactly what you were looking for in the beginning.
I wonder if that amp is back for sale there now?
is that a hum I hear developing in the right channel???
The other has no gray text but has yellow text in that area that says 83 and then another letter/number that's been wiped off.
The first one is Ei Nis ( Elektronska Industrija) tube made in Yugoslavia in the late 70's early 80's. They made some consistently good tubes considered current stock then. The earlier the better as by the late 80's quality slipped. They supposedly bought Telefunken machinery and materials.
not sure on the 2nd one. Have to see it.
Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
Anyway, it sounds like they aren't terrible, so that's a bonus!
Edit: This looks an awfully lot like it: http://www.tubes.rs/pcc88-ei-yugoslavia-a-frame-dimpled-disc-getter-version-7dj8/
Dare I Google "Valvo Hamburg"?
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valvo&prev=search