Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000 CD player

pitdogg2

heiney9 wrote: »

In the hey day I guess re-branding is not the correct term. Outsourcing is a better term. Back then no one really cared if the tube was manufactured by RCA or GE. If GE is was low in supply of a particular tube they might contract RCA or Raytheon to make the tube while putting their logo on it. And vice-versa of course.

I've seen Hamburg made Valvo's with a Zenith logo on them. They weren't trying to be shifty, they just needed tubes for their inventory.

I believe a good example of this would be the 5692 tubes. Depends on who you believe but it would seem all were made by RCA yet CBS and Sylvania both had the tube but they had different color bases from the RCA tubes but same construction. Like Brock said many companies bought tubes branded for them from other manufacturers. Rebranding is when you purposely wipe off the old label to now give it a new more expensive and desirable name to fraudulently get more money for the lessor tube.

kharp1

@Clipdat - Stay tuned, this is where I got a ton of startup knowledge on tubes. I knew a little when I started, and, still know very little, but, it's certainly not for lack of good info shared here. Some great forum members have been very generous in their help, some even sharing tubes so I could get an idea of that particular tubes "flavor." There is a learning curve for home audio tubes, but, it's a fun journey and can be very eye opening. What I once looked at as a "hassle" and, possibly daunting, I now consider fun and something I look forward to. It's amazing what can happen to your sound from one set of tubes to the next.

LET THE FUN BEGIN!

Clipdat

Opened it up and took more photos of the mystery tubes. It looks like it says either "Sold New" or "Gold New" in cursive writing and then 6DJ8/ECC88 W. GERMANY.

lightman1

Brock is a blowhard know-it-all.....

Clipdat

I finally figured out what the cursive writing says: "Gold Aero"

Here's another with the same logo:

Clipdat

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0602/karlskorner.htm

"Gold Aero does not and did not manufacture tubes. They purchased from different manufacturers, tested and graded them and then priced them accordingly. I still have a pair of their "platinum grade" 12 AX7 tubes that were $100 apiece many, many years ago and were obviously of Chinese origin. Dick had reason to believe his Gold Aero tubes were of German manufacture, probably the famous Siemens or Siemens & Halske brand name."

Clipdat

It looks like that dimpled disc getter is also used by Mullard and Amperex.

F1nut

I had some Gold Aero some type in here once...I believe they ended up in the trash.

kharp1

My aunt had a gold arrow

mhardy6647

kharp1 wrote: »

My aunt had a gold arrow

One can imagine her kids staring longingly at the Yugos and Gremlins in the shopping center parking lot.


JK, as they say...

heiney9

pitdogg2 wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

In the hey day I guess re-branding is not the correct term. Outsourcing is a better term. Back then no one really cared if the tube was manufactured by RCA or GE. If GE is was low in supply of a particular tube they might contract RCA or Raytheon to make the tube while putting their logo on it. And vice-versa of course.

I've seen Hamburg made Valvo's with a Zenith logo on them. They weren't trying to be shifty, they just needed tubes for their inventory.

I believe a good example of this would be the 5692 tubes. Depends on who you believe but it would seem all were made by RCA yet CBS and Sylvania both had the tube but they had different color bases from the RCA tubes but same construction. Like Brock said many companies bought tubes branded for them from other manufacturers. Rebranding is when you purposely wipe off the old label to now give it a new more expensive and desirable name to fraudulently get more money for the lessor tube.

Yes, 5691 and 5692 (6SL7 and 6SN7 equivalents) were made by RCA and many were re-branded/outsourced. There is also information in a GE manual to suggest they *might* have also made them. But, I think the concensous is that RCA produced many, if not all of them.

RCA - Special Red tubes






I have a couple pairs of 5691's and they are built like a brick doo-doo house. They sound great too! Among my top 5 favorite 6SL7 type

H9

mhardy6647

^^^ Great tubes, those

heiney9

Clipdat wrote: »

It looks like that dimpled disc getter is also used by Mullard and Amperex.

2nd and 3rd photo you can see the tube codes. Ironically the Mullard labeled tubes were made in Holland and the Amperex labeled tubes were made in Blackburn England. Perfect example of what I mean about labels not being helpful at determining manufacturer origin.

If a 12AU7 or 12AX7 has a dimple getter it means it's very late production. I just don't know that much about the 6DJ8 tube construction to comment.

H9

heiney9

Clipdat wrote: »

I finally figured out what the cursive writing says: "Gold Aero"

Here's another with the same logo:

These appear to be made by EI in Yugoslavia.

The photo's of your tubes are still to dark to see anything. Is there any sort of an etched code towards the bottom of the tubes? That's the only way I can comment since I don't know the construction cues like other tubes.

But yes, Gold Aero are rebranded tubes. They could be made by RFT in West Germany or Telefunken or Siemens. If I had to guess, it's likely RFT if they are truly made in West Germany.

H9

mhardy6647

I was thinkin' Siemens (FWIW) -- I think (??) some of the RCA-branded [West] German 6DJ8s I have from AES are Siemens-made.

heiney9

If they are Siemens, then they aren't much different than the pair he just bought from Brent Jesse. I guess that was my point, find out what you already have so you don't spend a lot of $$$ on the same/similar thing.

I have found in the past tube rolling in a cdp or dac is a very subtle change compared to an amp or pre-amp. Of course this is "in general" as each piece is different.

H9

heiney9

mhardy6647 wrote: »

^^^ Great tubes, those

Indeed! Triple mica, reinforcing rods, low loss micanol bases. Holding them in your hand you notice the "heft".

H9

Clipdat

The tubes were super hard to photograph for some reason. I was even using the flash on my phone and I had to take several before I even got those three relatively clear ones that I posted.

So, I tried looking at that code in gray at the bottom, but it looked like the first character was rubbed off. The other two were really hard to make out what they might be as well.

I'll look again when I put in the new tubes and if I can read the digits I'll post them.

heiney9 wrote: »

The photo's of your tubes are still to dark to see anything. Is there any sort of an etched code towards the bottom of the tubes? That's the only way I can comment since I don't know the construction cues like other tubes.

But yes, Gold Aero are rebranded tubes. They could be made by RFT in West Germany or Telefunken or Siemens. If I had to guess, it's likely RFT if they are truly made in West Germany.

H9

heiney9

The ones you got from Brent won't have codes, they are too new. But take a look, anything is possible from about the mid-70's on.

The fact that the old ones might have had codes means they are older and probably pretty good tubes (assuming they aren't worn out)

H9

Clipdat

Ah, yeah, sorry I meant I would check the Gold Aeros for their codes again when I swap them, but I was having a hell of a time trying to read what they were last night.

heiney9

GAx = production code for the ECC88

7Lx = production code for the E88CC

"x" being the change code (0,1,2,A,B,C etc)

D getter and D getter w/pinched waist are early

ring getter is middle dated

closed getter is later

closed getter w/dimples is later yet.

This is general information for the Euro made tubes by Holland, Munich and Hamburg Germany and England.

Clipdat

Thanks man!

heiney9

Clipdat wrote: »

Ah, yeah, sorry I meant I would check the Gold Aeros for their codes again when I swap them, but I was having a hell of a time trying to read what they were last night.

Sometimes a pen light and angle viewing is the best way to see.

The main thing is in the second line of code if they are Siemens the first character will be an = with a vertical line through. Top line is most likely GAB or GAC, that's the indicator it is an ECC88 as well as what revision.

heiney9

Here's another guide to try and navigate the ECC88/E88CC tube land.

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/SieTel E88CC/E88CC.htm

If you look at all the examples in the above link. None of the Siemens tubes have the "A" frame style support for the getter.

heiney9

Another resource to use. Photo identification is the key here.

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/main.php

mhardy6647

heiney9 wrote: »

If they are Siemens, then they aren't much different than the pair he just bought from Brent Jesse. I guess that was my point, find out what you already have so you don't spend a lot of $$$ on the same/similar thing.

I have found in the past tube rolling in a cdp or dac is a very subtle change compared to an amp or pre-amp. Of course this is "in general" as each piece is different.

H9

Yup, and I think you made your point rather clearly, too!

... and I concur 100% (FWIW).

heiney9

Siemens-Rohr tubes in the blue and yellow boxes could be from anywhere and most times it's just very mediocre tubes that have been re-branded.

My very first pair of tubes I bought (with very little to no knowledge) was a pair of Siemens-Rohr ECC85, NOS. Used those in the first Dared/Fatman MP-5 amp. Years later I learned they were mediocre tubes at best and had nothing to do with "real" Siemens tubes. Had the D74 stamp. I paid a lot for them too relatively speaking.

Also bought a pair of EL34's, same box, same D74 chalk on the glass. They were not Siemens tubes, but they turned out not to be so bad. They were later Tesla made E34L's that were pretty darn good...........not a pair of Siemens EL34's, however.

H9

Clipdat

Do you guys think I should bother swapping in those JAN Philips 6922 tubes just to get an idea of their sound, in order to figure out what direction I want to go in?

Then, when the Siemens arrive, I'll have a better idea of their sound signature, so I can see if I want to stay with those or go to Amperex Bugle Boys, etc.

heiney9

Yes! Absolutely! Look for your sound and learn what you like and don't like. Give all of them a good listen. Take your time, don't rush it.

H9

Clipdat

I'm a little worried that they're all going to sound "really good" to me, and I won't be able to discern any differences.

I have extremely sensitive hearing, but I'm beginning to think that it means nothing if I don't know what to "listen for".

heiney9 wrote: »

Yes! Absolutely! Look for your sound and learn what you like and don't like. Give all of them a good listen.