Do power cables make a difference?

I read another thread that you can hear a difference in power cables. Not to hijack the thread I thought I’d start a new thread. I think it’s a bunch of baloney.
Assuming you have a standard AC outlet how far do you go back to upgrade your wiring? Get new AC outlets? Get new electrical runs? Get new breaker panel? And new breakers? Get new 200A service wire to your house? Request 3 phase commercial power?
A power regulator and noise conditioner I get, the transformers need good clean AC. But what is the point of an upgraded power cord to assuming a standard IEC receptacle. Once the new power cord is plugged in, what kind of wiring is inside? Also I’ve seen fuse upgrades, really? $100 for a new fuse will make a sonic difference? Really, after AC has gone through a transformer (likely) and then rectified and regulated (unless it’s an AC circuit) will the fuse allow more current than a standard one... nope, it’s supposted to commit suiside.
If people continue to buy, there will always be a market for suckers IMHO.
Assuming you have a standard AC outlet how far do you go back to upgrade your wiring? Get new AC outlets? Get new electrical runs? Get new breaker panel? And new breakers? Get new 200A service wire to your house? Request 3 phase commercial power?
A power regulator and noise conditioner I get, the transformers need good clean AC. But what is the point of an upgraded power cord to assuming a standard IEC receptacle. Once the new power cord is plugged in, what kind of wiring is inside? Also I’ve seen fuse upgrades, really? $100 for a new fuse will make a sonic difference? Really, after AC has gone through a transformer (likely) and then rectified and regulated (unless it’s an AC circuit) will the fuse allow more current than a standard one... nope, it’s supposted to commit suiside.
If people continue to buy, there will always be a market for suckers IMHO.
Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Marantz HD-CD1 | Denafrips Aries II | Amazon Music Ultra HD via iPad Pro
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
Comments
Village Idiot of Club Polk
To think, you could've approached this a lot differently and actually gotten an intelligent discussion going.
However I do agree with you that it doesn’t make sense that it would sound better. However I’ve never heard an upgraded power cord so I wouldn’t know.
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
Are you going planning on getting a house?
Village Idiot of Club Polk
2012 x I have a relatively new power run from the street/electric company, from a new step down transformer to the house.
2011 - A new 200amp heavy gauge aluminum (electricians choice) service main feed to a new breaker panel. All new breakers and 240V panel/service entrance surge protector. All new electrical outlets with hand torqued screwed down terminals.
The copper in the walls are still original to the house and should still be viable if left undisturbed with some minor oxidation. I run standard power cords to a Panamax regulator & filter, conditioner and the standard included power cables to the audio components.
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
And Russ you're not homeless ... home deprived maybe not homeless.
How'd that going get in there? Keyboard ghosts.
Village Idiot of Club Polk
There is a possibility to that just maybe those power supplies in my monoblocks won't benefit. If the thread isn't shut down by the end of the day I'll come back and post my findings
That's a start. Wish I had a nickel for all the things in audio some never knew....until they tried them themselves.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
Does it matter ? Many things in audio "measure" differently, but still not audible. There are some things that measurements simply can't tell you. Like soundstage width and height, how well it will gel with the rest of your system, clarity and dynamics, decay. All that may not apply to power cables specifically, but do to cables in general.
Power cables, like all cables, add or subtract from the overall sound. To what degree depends on many variables. Your not going to put a 200 buck power cord on a 400 buck receiver, know what I'm saying ?
The more revealing your system gets, the more these other changes become more noticeable, and the more they will contribute to the overall sound. Audio, being subjective as it is too, is hard to attach blanket statements to. Just sayin'....because most who deny xyz in audio, either never tried them, never tried them under the right scenarios, or simply have no idea what they are listening for.
I say "under the right scenarios", because some may just do as I explained with a 200 buck power cord and a 400 buck receiver. The better your system gets, the more power cords can and will make a difference, maybe small, maybe large, depends.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
Does matching the phase also make a difference? Assuming we’re using the standard 120v and not a 240v outlet.
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
Some people can hear a difference.
Some people can't.
Now, for a brief musical interlude while we take a brief break for complimentary snacks and beverages in the lobby.
Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
Shifting to Plan B+
Yes the MC1201's are switchable to 240 volts but it's more involved than I want to get into. I can also say with complete confidence there will never ever be a time where I'll need that extra headroom either. 99% of the time they run at sane levels. During that other 1% I still don't come anywhere near their limits to my knowledge. I ran them what I thought was very hard for several hours and they were barely even at operating temperature.
Yes I have each receptacle wired to the opposite 120 taps. If there's a problem (hum?) doing it that way I've made things easy to swap back to using both amps on the same 120 tap.
* prepro upgrade, acoustics, bi-** or tri**-amped surrounds,
** depending upon your point of view
Tony
Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro
Samsung BDP, Dish Rcvr, Xbox, Phillips CD chgr
Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; CC outside
BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered
LR: tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; M&T - 981
CC: Rotel RB985 -> tri-amped CSi A6
5 Audio Pro Subs: 1 B1.39: an Evidence at each corner
Surrounds: Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
Power Conditioning & Distribution:
3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman Miniport 20s
I disabled, I am the South Carolina woman who gouged her eyes out on meth.
Just try it and see what it does for you and your system. You might be surprised. I think of it as an antenna, reduces excess noise picked up from the surrounding. Also, better power cords have larger gauge wiring which helps with current transmission.
I do agree with you though, how does that last 3 feet help when the internal 300 feet is standard run o' the mill 12g wiring? That I have yet to figure out.
Current Gear:
Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2
Main speakers system evolution over the years:
Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???
Old Gear:
Speakers:
BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
Source:
Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
Preamplification:
Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
Amplification:
HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
Subwoofer:
Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
* An open mind
* An empirical but informed approach to acquiring infromation on a subject
* A healthy skepticism (but stopping short of cynicism)
* An earnest interest in seeking out and understanding the underlying how and why of any claims.
Here's one quantum of food for thought vis-a-vis wires of any sort. How important are the terminations (i.e., the interfaces) between components and their interconnections? In the case of power cords -- how important is the blade/socket connection from the wall to the cord and the IEC connector/cord connector at the component end. Is it not plausible that resistance (or AC impedance) at the interfaces might make a difference, independent of anything else?
The nice thing is that these are testable hypotheses.
Joe's recently written some (I would suggest) cogent and insightful commentary on how darn hard it can be to tease apart the objective and subjective in this furshlugginer hobby. I offer a couple of examples -- these may be a little arcane in the abstract... but I'd encourage anyone with an interest in this hobby to peruse the threads from which these posts were taken.
http://www.hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/heater-wire-question.3470/#post-64775
http://www.hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/truly-fantastic-tube-phono-kit-for-beginners.3471/page-7#post-65734
Open ears & an open mind are excellent tools, I'd opine.
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk RT55, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500 | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55”
Office Music-2.0 KEF Q100 | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | AMC 2445 bridged
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Polk LSi25, LSiC, CS300, 4pr T15, Martin Logan Motion 40, 50xt, Dynamo 500, Rotel RB-1590, Denon AVR-4802R, Onkyo DX-C540, DVP-S500D, PS HX-500,
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
This is troll territory.
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
Territory?
I disabled, I am the South Carolina woman who gouged her eyes out on meth.