Do power cables make a difference?
Comments
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Hence my comment, it is pointless to argue a topic, that is lacking credible proof, and also contrarily just as pointless to get upset, when one is not providing any credible evidence other than saying "Trust me, I know what I hear".
Which begs the argument that "Those who don't try, won't know."
You scream to the rafters for proof. But when presented with a simple method of verification, "Try it for yourself", you throw all kinds of excuses and perversions that if it was true, then people could provide "evidence".
Let your ears be the judge. Last I knew, we listened to our systems with our ears not with an Oscilloscope or a Real Time Analyzer.
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Sometimes 'proof' isn't necessary. Do you think the sun will appear again tomorrow? Sure you do. There is no proof that it is going to - you simply can't prove it. However, with deductive reasoning, our expectation is that it will. Day in and day out.
Deductive reasoning would lead me to believe that all cables have a signature that presents itself on the sound, whether it be neutral or a coloration. When multiple people with different systems present similar experiences, you can deduce that the cable has an impact on the sound.
I used my deductive reasoning to expect a recent cable thread to turn into an argument. Why? I have no proof of it, but the patterns lead me to believe that we have gone way too long without one.
I guess I was right.
Do you think there is maybe frustration, over not being able to give a more definitive proof, that an individual's account is verifiable, or something entirely different?
Kelly just give some a try. Will it break you nope, will you notice a difference? well maybe you will, but would you even come back and comment that it did ?
I have made my own and yes they did make a difference. Was it night and day, of course not. There are some nice cables out there that are pretty reasonable.
The Shunyata Venom 14 is real reasonable and like it was said returnable.
At Axpona I talked with the anti-cable's owner about the new braided power cables he has. Both he and Audioquest are now selling pretty similar power cables yet they both came to market using similar technology. So one would think that a cable designer did both for the companies and yet that was not true according to him. Yet anti-cables tested both inductance and capacitance and depending on how tight or loose the braid was affected both inductance and capacitance which affect sound.
try it for yourself -
It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
I just found this AWSOME chat on Stereophile about Drews (^^^) new power cable. But maybe Drews' is a more newer model of the venom, but they are the same price. I found it convincing a lot of people HEAR the improvement and even give thoughts as to why too.
I just read a few posts and said to myself, this has to be put in this thread too.
It's very interesting. And it just may shed light on your (K_M) "proof is needed, argument or statement" to prove they help stereos sound better.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/power-cord-experiment-1
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
I've Really been doing some digging about power these days. I have very bad power in my area. I came across an interview with Garth Powell of audioquest, formerly Furman. He talked about how they measure for differences in high end power cables. I took a screen shot, and I’ve been saving it for this exact moment.
Feast your eyes on this!
The funniest comment I’ve read on here is “I have no experience with high end power cords” but I’m still going to argue about something I have no experience with.... yeahhhhh ooookkkkk LOL2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
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It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
I just found this AWSOME chat on Stereophile about Drews (^^^) new power cable. But maybe Drews' is a more newer model of the venom, but they are the same price. I found it convincing a lot of people HEAR the improvement and even give thoughts as to why too.
I just read a few posts and said to myself, this has to be put in this thread too.
It's very interesting. And it just may shed light on your (K_M) "proof is needed, argument or statement" to prove they help stereos sound better.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/power-cord-experiment-1
Would love to agree. Seriously. I have found there are all types online.
Some believe anything, with no proof, some never believe anything, and some are wanting the proof, as anything can be written up online.
I am skeptical.
It is not a matter of money at all, but more a matter of "Why bother".
But maybe will give a few a try......I would like to experience it firsthand -
When VERY intelligent people say they hear an improvement from upgrading to a more beefier or fancy wire design power cable, they 99.99% probably have.
The only way to change someones' mind, or not, is for them to experience the event themselves.
You can't miss, verify or discount what you haven't heard.
Does the inverse apply also?
LOL.
In my Looooong life, I've observed people of low intelligence people don't give a rats butt about music or the reproduction of it. I've read where there was some study showing the highest intelligence people listen to classical. I took offense to that conclusion but maybe there's truth in that study. LOL.
So yea, the inverse applies.
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
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When VERY intelligent people say they hear an improvement from upgrading to a more beefier or fancy wire design power cable, they 99.99% probably have.
The only way to change someones' mind, or not, is for them to experience the event themselves.
You can't miss, verify or discount what you haven't heard.
Does the inverse apply also?
LOL.
In my Looooong life, I've observed people of low intelligence people don't give a rats butt about music or the reproduction of it. I've read where there was some study showing the highest intelligence people listen to classical. I took offense to that conclusion but maybe there's truth in that study. LOL.
So yea, the inverse applies.
HAHA, what about Jazz? -
it’s spring time! k_m has come out of hibernation to argue cables!2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
afterburnt wrote: »Sometimes 'proof' isn't necessary. Do you think the sun will appear again tomorrow? Sure you do. There is no proof that it is going to - you simply can't prove it. However, with deductive reasoning, our expectation is that it will. Day in and day out.
Deductive reasoning would lead me to believe that all cables have a signature that presents itself on the sound, whether it be neutral or a coloration. When multiple people with different systems present similar experiences, you can deduce that the cable has an impact on the sound.
I used my deductive reasoning to expect a recent cable thread to turn into an argument. Why? I have no proof of it, but the patterns lead me to believe that we have gone way too long without one.
I guess I was right.
Do you think there is maybe frustration, over not being able to give a more definitive proof, that an individual's account is verifiable, or something entirely different?
That would sort of explains why you post to a thread when you have already drawn YOUR conclusion. Nah, Afterburnt's razor: the stupidest explanation tends to be correct. You posted just to whip it.
I'm not sure if you are highly intelligent, humourous or simply ultra rich....
I am everything you ever dreamed of. It is the internet after all. -
@K_M you wanna argue about hockey pucks made from the last endangered Unga Bunga tree in the Amazon rain forest? I'm game.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2401417#Comment_2401417
I am really diggin this "edit 3600"! -
Take it to PM, girls. We got power cables to argue about in this thread. Get back on topic!afterburnt wrote: »@K_M you wanna argue about hockey pucks made from the last endangered Unga Bunga tree in the Amazon rain forest? I'm game.
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Oh ok, I got em on everything but my Hello Kitty boom box oh and a couple of wall wart thingies.
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afterburnt wrote: »@K_M you wanna argue about hockey pucks made from the last endangered Unga Bunga tree in the Amazon rain forest? I'm game.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/2401417#Comment_2401417
I am really diggin this "edit 3600"!
I have two hockey pucks that both say official hockey puck of the NHL, but one is slightly bigger than the other. I use them to lift lowered Porsche’s and Audi’s.2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
You, K_M, scream to the rafters for proof. But when presented with a simple method of verification, "Try it for yourself", you throw all kinds of excuses and perversions that if it was true, then people could provide "evidence".
I joined this forum over 10 years* ago. Wow, how time flies when you’re havin’ fun!
From here I’ll get to my point. Some of this dialogue, as did the “raging” below in the 4th & 5th paragraphs comes off as non-constructive trolling.
Those that know me know I put stock in gauge (size), power condioning, and evidence from experience, in that order.
Way back when*, I recall weekly recurring, two-camp (raging) debates on rewiring speakers. I’d always chime to any sceptic: did you or have you tried it? One speaker at a time? “No, but...” was always their answer. Sometimes the “no” was inferred. The “...but” was always clear.
At the risk of opening an unrelated “can of worms” on a FB Bible translation thread, I asked the one contradictor a similar type, pointed question to which, like K_M & others from paragraph 4, flatly refused to address.
Further, these can’t PU or measure what so many complained about from the RTi A series speakers. That said, some either upgraded, paid another to do same, or in my case eliminated the passive filters, and were HAPPY w/the results.Let your ears be the judge. Last I knew, we listened to our systems with our ears not with an Oscilloscope or a Real Time Analyzer.
Ears!Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
When VERY intelligent people say they hear an improvement from upgrading to a more beefier or fancy wire design power cable, they 99.99% probably have.
The only way to change someones' mind, or not, is for them to experience the event themselves.
You can't miss, verify or discount what you haven't heard.
Does the inverse apply also?
LOL.
In my Looooong life, I've observed people of low intelligence people don't give a rats butt about music or the reproduction of it. I've read where there was some study showing the highest intelligence people listen to classical. I took offense to that conclusion but maybe there's truth in that study. LOL.
So yea, the inverse applies.
HAHA, what about Jazz?
I had a friend for years, from NY he was, and he is 76 or so now and he's quite intelligent and wealthy too. But his taste in jazz was pretty deep. I think when he was younger, the type of jazz was crazy fast jazz. Sometimes each player doing their own thing with no rhythm that I can detect, but he loves it. I respected him while over at his house and he respected my taste in music here too.
He did not listen to any Classical Music at all that I can remember.
So him loving crazy Jazz,
Me loving Classic Rock.
We both loved the stereo gear and speakers that bring us closer to the live recordings.
I guess we don't fit into that study I mentioned before. They didn't call us or mail us to participate.
They would've had to put in the footnotes that there are exceptional intelligent people who don't prefer classical music after all.
I like some classical music since I have aged. I would've said no thanks in my 20's and 30's for sure. But to think about real people making music on non-electrified instruments is what interests me a lot now. And to have so many musicians working together on a composition is quite an achievement too. But I have to be in the mood for classical too.Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
Nailed it. Classical music requires more patience, focus, and attention that other types of music. It's not a genre of music that provides instant gratification. You have to be in the right mood and frame of mind to fully appreciate it. And the performances are best listened to in one 60+ minute session.But I have to be in the mood for classical too.
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re: jazz:We will spend a dizzy weekend smacked into a trance
Me and you will listen to it
We'll hear what made the preacher dance...
Parker's Band (Becker and Fagen)
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About 6 months after I got married, my wife God bless her, knowing NOTHING about audio, made a never-heard-from-my-lips-but-she-read-my-mind comment about our new Pioneer Laser Disc player - “It’s sounds brassy*.”
After I upgraded my pre-amp’s RCA connectors and their PCB wires, a few days later - “Better, but still bright”
That day traded up to a Denon which we still have but don’t use.
BTW: classical, contemporary jazz, & rock - I listen to it all depending upon my mood.
Ears!Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
Nailed it. Classical music requires more patience, focus, and attention that other types of music. It's not a genre of music that provides instant gratification. You have to be in the right mood and frame of mind to fully appreciate it. And the performances are best listened to in one 60+ minute session.But I have to be in the mood for classical too.
Funny thing with me my mood so to speak follows the music. I listen to classical music frequently and it requires no effort on my part. Classical is my favorite reading music it relaxes me and helps me to focus, quite the opposite of effort. Anyway it sounds better with my twelve WIREWORLD power cables, their geometry is simply stunning.
This frigging tablet trays my patients though. Where the hell did it learn go yell "WIREWORLD" ? -
About 6 months after I got married, my wife God bless her, knowing NOTHING about audio, made a never-heard-from-my-lips-but-she-read-my-mind comment about our new Pioneer Laser Disc player - “It’s sounds brassy*.”
After I upgraded my pre-amp’s RCA connectors and their PCB wires, a few days later - “Better, but still bright”
That day traded up to a Denon which we still have but don’t use.
BTW: classical, contemporary jazz, & rock - I listen to it all depending upon my mood.
Ears!
A long time ago I described some speakers that I have as "piquant" and most of the people here still aren't talking to me. That was a pro move on your part not to have ever said "brassy" these people would have had you for lunch! -
You misunderstood my comment, you should read it again. I said nothing about the power coming in, I talked about signal transfer.It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
They don't make huge differences unless the factory cord is poorly constructed and picking up interference. This is where aftermarket power chords make bigger differences. EMI and RF interference sucks and can ruin your sound quality. Your amp could care less where the signal is coming from. if it comes in then it's in.
Of course, the amp cares about the electricity coming in. Your comments on the subject matter indicate a lack of understanding.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
afterburnt wrote: »About 6 months after I got married, my wife God bless her, knowing NOTHING about audio, made a never-heard-from-my-lips-but-she-read-my-mind comment about our new Pioneer Laser Disc player - “It’s sounds brassy*.”
After I upgraded my pre-amp’s RCA connectors and their PCB wires, a few days later - “Better, but still bright”
That day traded up to a Denon which we still have but don’t use.
BTW: classical, contemporary jazz, & rock - I listen to it all depending upon my mood.
Ears!
A long time ago I described some speakers that I have as "piquant" and most of the people here still aren't talking to me. That was a pro move on your part not to have ever said "brassy" these people would have had you for lunch!
I think we're lucky that Vanilla didn't censor piquant.
I like it. Has élan. Panache, even.
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You misunderstood my comment, you should read it again. I said nothing about the power coming in, I talked about signal transfer.It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
They don't make huge differences unless the factory cord is poorly constructed and picking up interference. This is where aftermarket power chords make bigger differences. EMI and RF interference sucks and can ruin your sound quality. Your amp could care less where the signal is coming from. if it comes in then it's in.
Of course, the amp cares about the electricity coming in. Your comments on the subject matter indicate a lack of understanding.
I for one would like to discuss my amplifiers lack of empathy. I get the feeling that my amp doesn't care about me or anything else! Bad amp very very bad! -
Fortunatly for me thePolk forum did not exist in Summer ‘94...afterburnt wrote: »About 6 months after I got married, my wife God bless her, knowing NOTHING about audio, made a never-heard-from-my-lips-but-she-read-my-mind comment about our new Pioneer Laser Disc player - “It’s sounds brassy*.”
After I upgraded my pre-amp’s RCA connectors and their PCB wires, a few days later - “Better, but still bright”
That day traded up to a Denon which we still have but don’t use.
BTW: classical, contemporary jazz, & rock - I listen to it all depending upon my mood.
Ears!
A long time ago I described some speakers that I have as "piquant" and most of the people here still aren't talking to me. That was a pro move on your part not to have ever said "brassy" these people would have had you for lunch!
Ears!
Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
Polk forum did not exist in Summer ‘94...afterburnt wrote: »About 6 months after I got married, my wife God bless her, knowing NOTHING about audio, made a never-heard-from-my-lips-but-she-read-my-mind comment about our new Pioneer Laser Disc player - “It’s sounds brassy*.”
After I upgraded my pre-amp’s RCA connectors and their PCB wires, a few days later - “Better, but still bright”
That day traded up to a Denon which we still have but don’t use.
BTW: classical, contemporary jazz, & rock - I listen to it all depending upon my mood.
Ears!
A long time ago I described some speakers that I have as "piquant" and most of the people here still aren't talking to me. That was a pro move on your part not to have ever said "brassy" these people would have had you for lunch!
Ears!
Jesus, you are not bound by the constraints of the time space continuum like us mere mortals. -
Do I really have to tell you these things?
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Get a room you two 2 channel:
Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
Theater:
Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables. -
