Hi Sal

mhardy6647 · November 2017

Musk is one of those "Wizard of Oz" guys.

tonyb · November 2017

Why we keep doing this, throwing billions at niche technologies is beyond me. Yet we have no money for vets, border wall, Medicare, improving infrastructure, getting water to farmers, etc. You know ....those piddly things that can make real changes in people's lives.

shawn474 · November 2017

tonyb wrote: »

Why we keep doing this, throwing billions at niche technologies is beyond me. Yet we have no money for vets, border wall, Medicare, improving infrastructure, getting water to farmers, etc. You know ....those piddly things that can make real changes in people's lives.

Because the egos of those involved can't allow themselves to be "behind the scenes" types of people. Those noble initiatives get passed when there is little care who gets the credit as long as it benefits those who NEED it. The EV crowd, and many others, want to be front and center.....their egos need to be fed in ways that are insatiable.

mhardy6647 · November 2017

The hybrid vehicle early adopters tended to be like that too -- and they were legion in the Boston metro area.

Mrs. H wasn't, fortunately, too insufferable when she got a hybrid.

mrbiron · November 2017

mhardy6647 wrote: »

The hybrid vehicle early adopters tended to be like that too -- and they were legion in the Boston metro area.

Cambridge + Toyota Prius' = one if the worst areas to drive in all of mass. Thankfully, I'm still working out of CT. Their equation looks like this;

CT residents + any automobile + darkest tint you can buy = Satan's Nightmare

Viking64 · November 2017

To it's credit, the Toyota Prius is an effective birth-control device.

Viking64 · November 2017

Drag Times? Then why isn't he dressed like a woman the way you are?

charley95 · November 2017

tonyb wrote: »

Why we keep doing this, throwing billions at niche technologies is beyond me. Yet we have no money for vets, border wall, Medicare, improving infrastructure, getting water to farmers, etc. You know ....those piddly things that can make real changes in people's lives.

Amen!

charley95 · November 2017

Shouldn't this tree hugging mindset be considered a mental illness like hoarding?! Everyone who's into it is so obsessive over it. I have one in the family who loves Bernie and his thought process is out of control over this.

mhardy6647 · November 2017

Wait? Hoarding is a mental illness?!

Oh, my...

DSC_0241 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Unknown · November 2017

This content has been removed.

voltz · November 2017

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Wait? Hoarding is a mental illness?!

Oh, my...

DSC_0241 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

That isn't hoarding, that is collecting - Big difference

but i'd be happy to haul it all away if it makes ya feel better about yourself!

BlueFox · November 2017

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Best strategy for many of us in the fast-disappearing segment of suburban/ex-urban baby boomers, methinks, is something small, cheap & economical for 'daily driver' use -- and a big-rump truck for those times when a truck is required.

I went that route 20+ years ago, but soon realized it was a lot less expensive to just rent a truck when needed.

tonyb · November 2017

Lasareath wrote: »

This Guy from Drag Times just placed an order for the founders' edition. $250,000

https://youtu.be/izhYXO9wKz0

Thanks for making my point, toys for the rich elite. Why do we need to subsidize toys for those who can afford them anyway ? Doesn't make sense to me. Especially when we have so many other areas in need of money. This is a priority.....250K cars for the rich ?

F1nut · November 2017

Lasareath wrote: »

This Guy from Drag Times just placed an order for the founders' edition. $250,000

https://youtu.be/izhYXO9wKz0

Nothing says SUCKER quite like it.

nooshinjohn · November 2017

BlueFox wrote: »

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Best strategy for many of us in the fast-disappearing segment of suburban/ex-urban baby boomers, methinks, is something small, cheap & economical for 'daily driver' use -- and a big-rump truck for those times when a truck is required.

I went that route 20+ years ago, but soon realized it was a lot less expensive to just rent a truck when needed.

I’m still looking for an electric bicycle powered by pixie dust and unicorn f arts...

mrbigbluelight · November 2017

John, this is the best I can do for you:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/speedx/speedx-unicorn-smart-road-bike-with-built-in-power

No pixie dust but it does have wireless stuff.
I don't think you should have trouble finding fairy pixie dust out there in California, though.

motorstereo · November 2017

One thing that hasn't been mentioned thus far and something to ponder. Why are aluminum manufacturing plants normally located near electrical generating plants? Because of the tremendous amount of electricity they require to make aluminum. The Tesla's body is all aluminum that would mean vast amounts of greenhouse gases generated from producing all that aluminum are released in the atmosphere before their products even hit the showroom.

tonyb · November 2017

motorstereo wrote: »

One thing that hasn't been mentioned thus far and something to ponder. Why are aluminum manufacturing plants normally located near electrical generating plants? Because of the tremendous amount of electricity they require to make aluminum. The Tesla's body is all aluminum that would mean vast amounts of greenhouse gases generated from producing all that aluminum are released in the atmosphere before their products even hit the showroom.

Good point Motor, can then one assume that a Tesla's environmental impact is all front loaded in the making of the vehicle ? Having no emissions is like making up for what was expelled making it. Even so, that makes it's carbon footprint equal out in the end....but nobody is really concerned about carbon footprints anyway .

motorstereo · November 2017

^^^^^^Just like in the audio world the source here is very important as well. If they have a green source producing the gigawatts necessary for aluminum production all would be well. I can't see a green source able to produce the necessary power needed though.

FWIW the aluminum industry is what made me retire from my self employed sealcoating business a few years ago. Apparently the coal tar which is a necessary ingredient of driveway sealer also has a use in aluminum production. The aluminum industry was willing to pay premium for it compared to the asphalt sealcoating industry so it's not hard to imagine what happened to price of coal tar. Coal tar is also a by-product of the coal mining industry and it's considered toxic until it's dry. So much for that aspect of being green to.

mhardy6647 · November 2017

Aluminum was a semiprecious metal until the late 19th century when a method to isolate the pure metal from aluminum oxide ore (bauxite) by electrolysis was developed.
Thus was the apex of the Washington Monument in DC made of in aluminum

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/9511/binczewski-9511.html
(... or, maybe not)

Electrolysis is also used to reduce water to hydrogen and oxygen.

lightman1 · November 2017

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Electrolysis is also used to reduce water to hydrogen and oxygen.

And removing that pesky mustache hair from the Mrs. upper lip......

mrbigbluelight · November 2017

https://media1.giphy.com/media/HRaRt6Tf1EoAU/giphy.gif

BlueFox · November 2017

Don’t know if it has been mentioned earlier in this thread since I haven’t read it, but the gas/diesel engine is in its last decade or two. Numerous manufacturers have stated they are going to some alternative method, and other countries are saying enough with all the pollution. While the US is now in a culture of stupidity we will also be joining the rest of the world.

With that in mind, I am currently researching my next car. As of today, the 2018 Nissan 370Z is at the top of the list.

BlueFox · November 2017

Lasareath wrote: »

BlueFox wrote: »

With that in mind, I am currently researching my next car. As of today, the 2018 Nissan 370Z is at the top of the list.

When I went to Las Vegas in September to test drive the 2018 LEAF I was talking to one of the Vice Presidents of Nissan and he was telling me that the 370Z platform is being worked on right now for an EV!

That would be amazing. AWD, Zero to 60 in 4 seconds. I’d buy that car.

So would I. As long as it was loaded, has at least a 300 mile range, and is less than $50K.

nooshinjohn · November 2017

The only electric cars I drive are slot cars.

BlueFox · November 2017

At least they are quiet.

The one thing I didn’t like about the 370Z was their playing up the exhaust noise. I hate that. I want power and quiet. Stealth mode, so to speak.

tonyb · November 2017

Yeah....ok. Most of us can't remember to plug in our phones, now you want us to plug in our cars too ?

Get up for work, and realize you forgot to plug in the car last night. Then what ? Then you get fired, can't pay the nut on the electric car, and buy a beater gas powered car while you look for a new job.

Bud, the added noise is for safety reasons. Car is too quiet you won't hear it coming and get smacked crossing a street.

BlueFox · November 2017

tonyb wrote:

Bud, the added noise is for safety reasons. Car is too quiet you won't hear it coming and get smacked crossing a street.

Every day I try to walk around the work complex before and after lunch. One day I am walking and daydreaming past a side parking lot when a Volt backed up into where I should have been. I barely stopped and was really surprised how I was caught off guard.

However, the noise I was referring to was gas powered exhaust noise.

tonyb · November 2017

BlueFox wrote: »

Don’t know if it has been mentioned earlier in this thread since I haven’t read it, but the gas/diesel engine is in its last decade or two. Numerous manufacturers have stated they are going to some alternative method, and other countries are saying enough with all the pollution. While the US is now in a culture of stupidity we will also be joining the rest of the world.

With that in mind, I am currently researching my next car. As of today, the 2018 Nissan 370Z is at the top of the list.

Some people around the globe also say enough with humans polluting and we need to get rid of a few billion pesky humans. Should we join them too ?

No, it is not the pollution that bothers the world from cars, it's the cost of gasoline. When people start paying 4-5 bucks a gallon, then they start looking at alternatives.

More than half the planet doesn't even have an infrastructure to deliver gas, let alone electric. Gas prices dictate direction from consumers. That's why demand for electric cars is low now with cheap gas available. The powers at be will do what ever it takes to elevate those prices to force those choices. Different states have different requirements for gas, which adds costs to refineries and distribution. That was part of the reason we couldn't ship gas to the Katrina affected states.

The amount of money needed to get everyone around the globe up to snuff with infrastructure to deliver electric would be staggering. Having just the USA and Europe on board isn't going to change a thing on a global scale in regards to pollution or climate change.

Seems to me anyway, some are in love with the idea, but falter when reality hits. Plus we haven't even discussed the raw materials it would take to replace all gas cars with electric. I don't think we could mine that much, and if we could and the demand was there....what do you think happens to the price of those raw materials ? Especially mines in other countries. You'd create another cartel, like in oil, and we'd be at the same crossroads.

Hi Sal

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