Nothing wrong with balance, a little here and a little there
Keep in mind the US has managed to cripple cities and towns ie big steel, coal, manufacturing etc
Made us a weaker economy overall. Take out big oil that leaves the US with only engineering, but manufacturing will still move abroad, along with good paying jobs.
Know your history on why we became a great nation. We lead in both development and manufacturing
Everybody's avatar should be their most recent driver's license photograph.
Mine is carved in a cave wall..
HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One
Everybody's avatar should be their most recent driver's license photograph.
If I do that...I'll be mistaken for a tree hugging person of Seattle...lol.
If you could only get to Seattle...
HT/Main- Panny 50" G10 Plasma, Pioneer SC-1222k AVR, Panny DMP-BD60 BDP, Polk LS90 mains, CS350LS center, LS/fx side surrounds, LS50 surround backs, SVS 25-31PC+ sub, Harmony One
Actually, I think that EVs are a viable alternative to gas/diesel vehicles right now in a lot of scenarios. Certainly not all of course, but in my situation I drive maybe 20 miles round trip to my workplace and back and rarely drive around town more than 50 miles in a day. An EV makes great sense for me and probably would for many people. Nonetheless, I drive a gas pickup
That being said, I would never champion unforced funding the dreams of Musk or his ilk . As you said, it will succeed (or fail) on its own merits. Ultimately I think it will succeed in the end but that's just my own opinion.
My bigger issue with the comment that I quoted was that people wouldn't be able to remember to plug in their car to recharge, which to me is idiotic.
In operation they may be viable for some people, but I was speaking more from a production/acquisition standpoint.
Of the vanishingly small percentage of total vehicles sold that are EV, how much smaller would that percentage be if the $10k(ish) subsidy were to be eliminated? Additionally, how much MORE would a Tesla cost if Musk weren't raking in billions from the government (or would Tessa exist at all)?
I do have some reluctance in basing my life choices on a romance novel fashion model (despite the fact that his dad was an engineer).
Despite clear and concise product labeling, Mr. Fabio seems somewhat confused by the distinct differences between margarine and butter.
I prefer the scientific work being conducted by afficionado Mr. Young
(information relayed to me by a certified 'Merican)
Lincoln Continental. Proof that you can save the earth with style and class.
No sense in saving the earth if you ain't got no style, not to mention class.
......... might want to throw "couth" into the mix while we're at it.
MrBigBlueLight
Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
Shifting to Plan B+
Yeah....ok. Most of us can't remember to plug in our phones, now you want us to plug in our cars too ?
Get up for work, and realize you forgot to plug in the car last night. Then what ? Then you get fired, can't pay the nut on the electric car, and buy a beater gas powered car while you look for a new job.
.
That's just beyond stupid. That's like saying people can't remember to fill their cars up with gas. No, electric cars aren't the answer now but internal combustion engines were a poor replacement for horses too once upon a time. Centralized power production with virtually lossless distribution makes a hell of a lot of sense. The tech isn't there to make it better than fossil fuels right now but that doesn't mean it won't be.
Are you a millennial?
Not sure why a person's age is relevant to their viewpoint but I am probably older than you.
I'm 53 and pretty much view the world just as Walt Kozwalski did in Gran Torino! Just think how great the world would be if we all had a neighbor like him. He would not be a bleeding heart, that I can tell ya!
If you have to resort to fear mongering about rumors, speculation and vaporware to get people to pay attention to your "message" then your message is not worth passing along.
Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
Yeah....ok. Most of us can't remember to plug in our phones, now you want us to plug in our cars too ?
Get up for work, and realize you forgot to plug in the car last night. Then what ? Then you get fired, can't pay the nut on the electric car, and buy a beater gas powered car while you look for a new job.
.
That's just beyond stupid. That's like saying people can't remember to fill their cars up with gas. No, electric cars aren't the answer now but internal combustion engines were a poor replacement for horses too once upon a time. Centralized power production with virtually lossless distribution makes a hell of a lot of sense. The tech isn't there to make it better than fossil fuels right now but that doesn't mean it won't be.
LOL, well, people do forget to put gas in their cars. Gas engines as a poor replacement for horses ? That's there is funny, you do stand-up on Tuesdays and Thursdays ?
Our electric technology is so great on the distribution side, that we have brown outs as is today. Everyone turning on their AC at the same time stresses the grid. Lets add 220-440v access to that grid by the millions and see what happens.
Like I said, the amount of money needed to give x amount of people access to x amount of juice simply isn't workable today. Not just because we lack a direct need for it, but we also lack the funds to build such an infrastructure today. Maybe everyone forgot, but our credit card has 20 trillion on it and growing with unfunded liabilities close to if not in excess of 100 trillion. Keyword there is "unfunded", stuff we have yet to pay for.
We can't even take care of infrastructure needs for cars in general. Roads/bridges ? Nobody is arguing that EV's can benefit a certain percentage of the population, just as solar and wind power can, but none of those choices are a replacement for fossil fuels on the scale we need them to be. That my friend isn't stupidity, it's called common sense, something missing in todays society.
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Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
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B&k 1420
lsi 9's
Sal, at least your being honest. If someone like you who is heavily vested in the EV mania, can forget to plug the darn thing in so can those not so much in tune with the requirements. It's not stupid as another member suggests, it's just human nature.
Point is, with gas....you fuel up once and your good for at least 4 days maybe a week depending on how much you drive. EV's need daily attention and awareness, one more thing to add to the list of things to remember. That's all I'm sayin'...like a high maintenance girlfriend, and we all know how long we keep those.
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Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
The "forgetting to plug in" thing is only an issue, from my perspective, because the consequence of forgetting is so much more time consuming for a recharge relative to a refill. I have a coupla 2-1/2 gallon gas cans in my shed. I don't know of a handy way to store a bunch of charge in my shed -- or, more to the point, even if I had a jug of charge, pouring it into my EV would take more than a half minute or so.
That remains, I think, one of the more significant bugbears of EVs in the present. I expect it to stay thus in the future, too. I am deeply skeptical of "the laws of physics" enabling a safe, practical and cost effective way to recharge batteries quickly -- i.e., at the levels of energy required for a "fill up" akin to an I/C auto's fuel tank.
Superconductors, e.g., will never be practical nor cost effective for an automobile. Any conductors with finite resistance will generate substantial heat conducting such huge amounts of charge in short times.
EDITORIAL: I do think Mr. Musk is something of a charlatan. Not a pure-play charlatan, but one who is adept at setting unrealistic expectations (a la Nikola Tesla, of another time). Tesla was only sparingly successful at funding his shenanigans; Musk, so far, is much more so.
IMO, one should only guardedly use the words "Tesla" and "Elon Musk" in the same sentence/paragraph and then only in a "Compare/Contrast" situation.
There's a reason why Elon Musk named his company "Tesla Motors" when perhaps "P.T. Barnum Motors" might be more fitting.
And while Elon Musk has the backing and assistance of our Powers-That-Be (In-Q-Tel, DARPA, etc), Tesla had to fight against the Powers-That-Be of his time (Edison, JP Morgan, Carnegie, etc).
It should be acknowledged that Tesla did have the backing of Westinghouse.
Tesla was kind of a cross between Einstein and a honey badger.
Profit driven innovation ? Honey badger don;'t give a .... uhm ..... care.
Here's a little primer (and there WILL be a test later):
Sal, at least your being honest. If someone like you who is heavily vested in the EV mania, can forget to plug the darn thing in so can those not so much in tune with the requirements. It's not stupid as another member suggests, it's just human nature.
Your original comment implied a habit of forgetting. If your job depended on your phone or your car and you habitually forgot to charge it, then I would fire you. I have no issues with people being occasionally late. There's a myriad of reasons why this happens. Some of it is directly our own human fault. Even gas autos break down. Sal reported he was late on average about once every other year due to forgetting. That is not habitual, and should be excused by a reasonable manager.
I grant you the Nissan Leaf's range is listed at 107mi which I think is pretty bad.
This does require a bit more trip planning on a day-to-day tasks. Although I could get to work almost twice before charging, and again, my work has free charging spots. The Tesla 3's range is more inline with gas powered cars. Big reason I would not own an EV other than a Tesla right now. I am hopeful for the future.
We have something in common then, hope for the future. My hope is we stop wasting money on niche markets and put the bigger bucks where it will help more people in need instead of a handful of elitists.
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Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
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B&k 1420
lsi 9's
Every time I open this thread it makes me gag since it goes to Fabio’s picture. LOL
Bud - Silicon Valley
Lumin X1 file player
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
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Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
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Comments
Keep in mind the US has managed to cripple cities and towns ie big steel, coal, manufacturing etc
Made us a weaker economy overall. Take out big oil that leaves the US with only engineering, but manufacturing will still move abroad, along with good paying jobs.
Know your history on why we became a great nation. We lead in both development and manufacturing
You reap what you sow
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
Keep it up....mark my words
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
Mine is carved in a cave wall..
Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
You had a cave?? Lucky.
If you could only get to Seattle...
Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t
In operation they may be viable for some people, but I was speaking more from a production/acquisition standpoint.
Of the vanishingly small percentage of total vehicles sold that are EV, how much smaller would that percentage be if the $10k(ish) subsidy were to be eliminated? Additionally, how much MORE would a Tesla cost if Musk weren't raking in billions from the government (or would Tessa exist at all)?
THAT is what I mean by viable...
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
Despite clear and concise product labeling, Mr. Fabio seems somewhat confused by the distinct differences between margarine and butter.
I prefer the scientific work being conducted by afficionado Mr. Young
(information relayed to me by a certified 'Merican)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=qnYCYDWUCRc
Lincoln Continental. Proof that you can save the earth with style and class.
No sense in saving the earth if you ain't got no style, not to mention class.
......... might want to throw "couth" into the mix while we're at it.
Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
Shifting to Plan B+
I'm 53 and pretty much view the world just as Walt Kozwalski did in Gran Torino! Just think how great the world would be if we all had a neighbor like him. He would not be a bleeding heart, that I can tell ya!
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
LOL, well, people do forget to put gas in their cars. Gas engines as a poor replacement for horses ? That's there is funny, you do stand-up on Tuesdays and Thursdays ?
Our electric technology is so great on the distribution side, that we have brown outs as is today. Everyone turning on their AC at the same time stresses the grid. Lets add 220-440v access to that grid by the millions and see what happens.
Like I said, the amount of money needed to give x amount of people access to x amount of juice simply isn't workable today. Not just because we lack a direct need for it, but we also lack the funds to build such an infrastructure today. Maybe everyone forgot, but our credit card has 20 trillion on it and growing with unfunded liabilities close to if not in excess of 100 trillion. Keyword there is "unfunded", stuff we have yet to pay for.
We can't even take care of infrastructure needs for cars in general. Roads/bridges ? Nobody is arguing that EV's can benefit a certain percentage of the population, just as solar and wind power can, but none of those choices are a replacement for fossil fuels on the scale we need them to be. That my friend isn't stupidity, it's called common sense, something missing in todays society.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” .
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
Point is, with gas....you fuel up once and your good for at least 4 days maybe a week depending on how much you drive. EV's need daily attention and awareness, one more thing to add to the list of things to remember. That's all I'm sayin'...like a high maintenance girlfriend, and we all know how long we keep those.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
That remains, I think, one of the more significant bugbears of EVs in the present. I expect it to stay thus in the future, too. I am deeply skeptical of "the laws of physics" enabling a safe, practical and cost effective way to recharge batteries quickly -- i.e., at the levels of energy required for a "fill up" akin to an I/C auto's fuel tank.
Superconductors, e.g., will never be practical nor cost effective for an automobile. Any conductors with finite resistance will generate substantial heat conducting such huge amounts of charge in short times.
EDITORIAL: I do think Mr. Musk is something of a charlatan. Not a pure-play charlatan, but one who is adept at setting unrealistic expectations (a la Nikola Tesla, of another time). Tesla was only sparingly successful at funding his shenanigans; Musk, so far, is much more so.
There's a reason why Elon Musk named his company "Tesla Motors" when perhaps "P.T. Barnum Motors" might be more fitting.
And while Elon Musk has the backing and assistance of our Powers-That-Be (In-Q-Tel, DARPA, etc), Tesla had to fight against the Powers-That-Be of his time (Edison, JP Morgan, Carnegie, etc).
It should be acknowledged that Tesla did have the backing of Westinghouse.
Tesla was kind of a cross between Einstein and a honey badger.
Profit driven innovation ? Honey badger don;'t give a .... uhm ..... care.
Here's a little primer (and there WILL be a test later):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=128&v=pkYUF64v2iU
Yep, honey badger don't give a ...... hoot.
Here to pick your brain & steal your cookies
Shifting to Plan B+
Your original comment implied a habit of forgetting. If your job depended on your phone or your car and you habitually forgot to charge it, then I would fire you. I have no issues with people being occasionally late. There's a myriad of reasons why this happens. Some of it is directly our own human fault. Even gas autos break down. Sal reported he was late on average about once every other year due to forgetting. That is not habitual, and should be excused by a reasonable manager.
I grant you the Nissan Leaf's range is listed at 107mi which I think is pretty bad.
This does require a bit more trip planning on a day-to-day tasks. Although I could get to work almost twice before charging, and again, my work has free charging spots. The Tesla 3's range is more inline with gas powered cars. Big reason I would not own an EV other than a Tesla right now. I am hopeful for the future.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
Looks good to me. Maybe the sign needs to be more specific
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/fall-of-the-dinosaurs.798073/
Game Room HT: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology SM450; Definitive Technology LCR2000; Definitive Technology Procinema 800; Mirage Nanasats; Sub - HSU VTF-2 MK5
Master Bedroom
Cambridge Azur 551r; Definitive Technology StudioMonitor350; ACI Titan Subwoofer
Lumin X1 file player
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
I thought the same thing... seems to be even more effective than closing it.
Office Rig- Marantz 2252B, Denon 2910, Kenwood KD2070 TT, Polk RTA 12B's/ RTA8t