Hi Sal

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  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 680
    Lasareath wrote: »
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Just what is your end game here Sal?

    I thought about this. It took me a couple of days to figure it out and here it goes:

    When I wake up 3 days in a row and life is working out perfectly and I can smile and laugh all day long I feel guilty.

    So I come here to take some abuse because I know you are all excellent abusers.

    And then I feel terrible but I stop feeling guilty.

    That's about it.

    Sal

    Unrealistic assertations in the harsh light of logic can often make one feel abused, when if fact they are just facing to shortcomings of their position.
    Too much stuff to keep track of.

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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,573
    What you just posted Sal was Toys for the elite, which is all fine and dandy, but does zero to solve any issues we have currently so lets not pretend it does. The average joe doesn't need a electric super car, 2 seater, or spend 100k on one. If he has the means and wants one, knock your socks off, no different than buying a Ferrari in my book.

    Practical though ? Does it do anything to make car ownership more affordable ? NO, it doesn't. It's a niche market for the well to do or city slickers and will probably go the same way as SACD.

    Offer an electric vehicle that a person can carry the kids around in, groceries, has range and long battery life for under 15k, and you might grab peoples attention. Selling expensive cars to rich folks isn't doing anything for anyone, or the environment, except making money for a select few.

    I'm not against making money either, sell what you want to who you want, but the cover B.S. about all this being for the environment is what's called into question.
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,573
    I was just wondering too, science nerds, if an expressway with say 100-200 electric cars are together, does that create an electro magnetic field that would attract lightning in a storm ? Hmmm.....maybe we should put a Tesla on top of the empire state building and find out. lol
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  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 2,879
    tonyb wrote: »
    What you just posted Sal was Toys for the elite, which is all fine and dandy, but does zero to solve any issues we have currently so lets not pretend it does. The average joe doesn't need a electric super car, 2 seater, or spend 100k on one. If he has the means and wants one, knock your socks off, no different than buying a Ferrari in my book.

    Practical though ? Does it do anything to make car ownership more affordable ? NO, it doesn't. It's a niche market for the well to do or city slickers and will probably go the same way as SACD.

    Offer an electric vehicle that a person can carry the kids around in, groceries, has range and long battery life for under 15k, and you might grab peoples attention. Selling expensive cars to rich folks isn't doing anything for anyone, or the environment, except making money for a select few.

    I'm not against making money either, sell what you want to who you want, but the cover B.S. about all this being for the environment is what's called into question.

    Precisely.......The links to all of these one off type EV's under the guise of "protecting the environment" or "sustainability" is a bunch of bunk. Straight up elitist bunk. IF, and when, as you say the market can produce an EV that can cater to the NEEDS of the population at large (families, grocery getters, workers, etc) then it will remain a niche' market. Linking to electric semi's, dump trucks and roadsters does nothing but fan the flames of a smoldering debate.......and one that the EV community is losing miserably. Where is the affordable commuter car for people like me who live 45 miles each way from their place of employment and sit in traffic daily? For the parents who need a mini-van to be able to adequately fit their families? For those who need storage space or pick ups for their tools and supplies necessary to their work.......they don't exist and from the looks and sounds of it are not on the horizon in an affordable option for the middle class. And spare the talk of the tesla SUV - that's a six figure investment that the rich can afford. The EV agenda is a noble cause to continue to discuss, but until the community addresses what Tony articulately pointed out in his above post, its an agenda that will remain defended by a bunch of blowhards who hide behind the guise of "improving the environment" and saving humanity.
    Shawn
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,676
    edited November 2017
    FIWIW, I would opine that the Leaf and the Bolt (albeit with government help in terms of bottom-line cost to the purchaser) meet the " cater to the NEEDS of the population at large (families, grocery getters, workers, etc)" criterion. A little small, but fit-for-purpose as a vehicle for routine, daily, low-volume, low-mileage use.

    The "Statement" vehicles from Tesla (or whomever) aren't really much different than any other manufacturer's statement vehicles. Heck, Chevy still sells the Spark (don't they?) -- and the Corvette.

    PS Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem ironic that GM sells a car called the "Spark" that has an I/C engine, and the one they sell called the "Volt" does, too (albeit in a clever hybrid format) -- so their pure-played electric had to be called something else?

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,676
    tonyb wrote: »
    I was just wondering too, science nerds, if an expressway with say 100-200 electric cars are together, does that create an electro magnetic field that would attract lightning in a storm ? Hmmm.....maybe we should put a Tesla on top of the empire state building and find out. lol

    I doubt it, but I dunno.

    Now, a fleet of EVs towing house trailers... that's just a tornado magnet ;)
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,676
    edited November 2017
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,573
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    FIWIW, I would opine that the Leaf and the Bolt (albeit with government help in terms of bottom-line cost to the purchaser) meet the " cater to the NEEDS of the population at large (families, grocery getters, workers, etc)" criterion. A little small, but fit-for-purpose as a vehicle for routine, daily, low-volume, low-mileage use.

    The "Statement" vehicles from Tesla (or whomever) aren't really much different than any other manufacturer's statement vehicles. Heck, Chevy still sells the Spark (don't they?) -- and the Corvette.

    PS Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem ironic that GM sells a car called the "Spark" that has an I/C engine, and the one they sell called the "Volt" does, too (albeit in a clever hybrid format) -- so their pure-played electric had to be called something else?

    Not really Doc. As you can see, the range is short and charge times long. You can get a comparable gas version of the same size car, for the same price and not have to worry about range, charging, or getting a 220v station installed in the garage...that's if you have one too. How about the folks who live in apartments/condos.


    2017 Nissan LEAF
    Compact car



    3.5/5 · Car and Driver







    Range: 107 mi battery-only



    MSRP: From $30,680



    Battery: 30 kWh 360 V lithium-ion



    MPGe: 124 city / 101 highway



    Battery charge time: 21h at 110V, 6h at 220V, 0.5h at 440V
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  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,573
    Dealers are running sales on electric cars because they aren't moving/selling. The demand isn't there, even with subsidies. Cheap gas has put a choke hold on them. When gas was 4-5 bucks a gallon, then the appeal gets elevated.

    Cheap gas, however, is the enemy of the environmentalists. They will do anything to make it more expensive to force people into their approved form of energy. If that happens, what pray tell do you think happens to electric prices once x amount of people switch over ?

    It's about money, always has been, always will be.
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  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 2,879
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    FIWIW, I would opine that the Leaf and the Bolt (albeit with government help in terms of bottom-line cost to the purchaser) meet the " cater to the NEEDS of the population at large (families, grocery getters, workers, etc)" criterion. A little small, but fit-for-purpose as a vehicle for routine, daily, low-volume, low-mileage use.

    Not at a cost of $30+k and a range of 107 miles with limited space.......if they simply were marketed as commuter cars, increased the range and dropped the price point, THEN i could see the appeal. I would even consider one for my purposes. But, as it stands right now, i cannot see it as a replacement for a daily driver gasoline engine car - toting around my kids with all their sports / band gear, trips to home depot, going on vacation (try putting one suitcase in there much less 4), etc.

    Shawn
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  • mrbironmrbiron Posts: 4,912
    Lasareath wrote: »
    In other News JBHunt reserves a Tesla Semi Truck.




    Keep launching these dreams Musk. One day your automotive sector will stay in the black. Hit a record low earlier this year with something like $400 million lost...not bad...

    2 profitable quarters overall.....crushing it...
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  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 2,879
    mrbiron wrote: »
    Lasareath wrote: »
    In other News JBHunt reserves a Tesla Semi Truck.




    Keep launching these dreams Musk. One day your automotive sector will stay in the black. Hit a record low earlier this year with something like $400 million lost...not bad...

    2 profitable quarters overall.....crushing it...

    Yep, how long do finance experts predict Tesla can sustain these kinds of losses and lack of production........

    https://recode.net/2017/11/1/16593134/tesla-model-3-elon-musk-production-q3-earnings-2017

    I have been following Elio Motors closely. Considering my commute and the practicality of cost ($7500 base price) and fuel efficiency, it would make sense. I could pay for the car outright and have no additional monthly payment, get 80+ miles per gallon and be comfortable with heat / air conditioning during my commute. Its bare bones, ugly as sin and technically classified as a motorcycle, but it works for a commuter car..........

    https://eliomotors.com/
    Shawn
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,676
    edited November 2017
    The Leaf's range is very short -- surprisingly, there are a number of them in my neck of the woods. Between the hills and the cold winters, I'd be terrified to drive one anywhere but to the store & back.

    The Bolt is better in that regard -- but it is small inside and out.

    I like small vehicles for everyday use; it may be recalled that I bought a 2011 Ford Fiesta the moment they were available in the US; ordered one, in fact -- first time in my life I hadn't bought "off the lot". Nice little car, too; economical, cheap & fun to drive. But I digress :|

    Our son-in-law came within Angstroms :) of buying a Bolt a month or so ago -- but th dealer sold it out from under him.

    He & my daughter just bought a used 2010 Subaru Outback off CL instead :/

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,676
    Best strategy for many of us in the fast-disappearing segment of suburban/ex-urban baby boomers, methinks, is something small, cheap & economical for 'daily driver' use -- and a big-rump truck for those times when a truck is required.
  • daddyjtdaddyjt Posts: 680
    mrbiron wrote: »
    Lasareath wrote: »
    In other News JBHunt reserves a Tesla Semi Truck.




    Keep launching these dreams Musk. One day your automotive sector will stay in the black. Hit a record low earlier this year with something like $400 million lost...not bad...

    2 profitable quarters overall.....crushing it...

    Normally I couldn't care less, but it's OUR money he is burning through... We have two (That I know of) Tesla dealerships here in the Salt Lake area. Each one has between zero and 2 Tesla's on it at any given time, and one bored looking "salesman". In addition, each dealership has about a dozen of the "fast-charge" (Or whatever they are called) stations that are ALWAYS empty.

    If it were Musk's own money, it would not bother me in the slightest. However, our government is throwing BILLIONS at him, with almost no return on investment, and apparently no oversight whatsoever. It's the $600 hammer fiasco all over again.
    Too much stuff to keep track of.

    Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,676
    Musk is one of those "Wizard of Oz" guys.
  • tonybtonyb Posts: 30,573
    Why we keep doing this, throwing billions at niche technologies is beyond me. Yet we have no money for vets, border wall, Medicare, improving infrastructure, getting water to farmers, etc. You know ....those piddly things that can make real changes in people's lives.
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  • shawn474shawn474 Posts: 2,879
    tonyb wrote: »
    Why we keep doing this, throwing billions at niche technologies is beyond me. Yet we have no money for vets, border wall, Medicare, improving infrastructure, getting water to farmers, etc. You know ....those piddly things that can make real changes in people's lives.

    Because the egos of those involved can't allow themselves to be "behind the scenes" types of people. Those noble initiatives get passed when there is little care who gets the credit as long as it benefits those who NEED it. The EV crowd, and many others, want to be front and center.....their egos need to be fed in ways that are insatiable.
    Shawn
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  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,676
    The hybrid vehicle early adopters tended to be like that too -- and they were legion in the Boston metro area.

    Mrs. H wasn't, fortunately, too insufferable when she got a hybrid. :)
  • mrbironmrbiron Posts: 4,912
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    The hybrid vehicle early adopters tended to be like that too -- and they were legion in the Boston metro area.

    Cambridge + Toyota Prius' = one if the worst areas to drive in all of mass. Thankfully, I'm still working out of CT. Their equation looks like this;

    CT residents + any automobile + darkest tint you can buy = Satan's Nightmare
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  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,737
    To it's credit, the Toyota Prius is an effective birth-control device.
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 3,737
    Drag Times? Then why isn't he dressed like a woman the way you are? :p
  • tonyb wrote: »
    Why we keep doing this, throwing billions at niche technologies is beyond me. Yet we have no money for vets, border wall, Medicare, improving infrastructure, getting water to farmers, etc. You know ....those piddly things that can make real changes in people's lives.

    Amen!
  • Shouldn't this tree hugging mindset be considered a mental illness like hoarding?! Everyone who's into it is so obsessive over it. I have one in the family who loves Bernie and his thought process is out of control over this.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 20,676
    Wait? Hoarding is a mental illness?!

    Oh, my...


    16013994074_3405e2a9d8_b.jpgDSC_0241 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 12,345
    Lasareath wrote: »
    This Guy from Drag Times just placed an order for the founders' edition. $250,000


    Oooooooo now im soooo impressed.......

    LMAO




    Not impressed in the least Las.
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,020
    edited November 2017
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Wait? Hoarding is a mental illness?!

    Oh, my...


    16013994074_3405e2a9d8_b.jpgDSC_0241 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    That isn't hoarding, that is collecting - Big difference ;)
    but i'd be happy to haul it all away if it makes ya feel better about yourself!
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