Bi-Wiring, what exactly is it doing?
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Yep, 5 rounds of MIT cable demo's and everyone of them must be some sort of delusional, uneducated caveman....on LSD no less.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Just finished my 2nd bag of popcorn.Stan
Main 2ch:
Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.
HT:
Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60
Other stuff:
Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601 -
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Perhaps, instead of following the usual pattern, you could address some of the questions brought up in this thread and the "sound quality and time of day" thread?
I think we could all potentially learn something if you would make the choice to do so?
What do you say?Post edited by headrott on
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
LOL. Greg, you are an optimist.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
There was a time I couldn't tell the difference, but as I have upgraded over the years it is almost unbelievable how much difference cables can make. I love the hobby (if that's a correct way to say it). I just wish I could afford the really high end.
There have been lots of times (documented on this forum) when I sent a cable back because I didn't hear a difference or improvement, and had the opposite result when I revisited the same cable after an equipment upgrade.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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I don't mind the trolls per se, but I have decided I am no longer going to be insulted by those clowns. Implying that people who can hear differences with cables are delusional, or weak minded, is crossing the line.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
LOL. Greg, you are an optimist.Highly doubtful, Greg.
Just pointing out that rather than trying to follow the same behavioral pattern(s), it would be much more constructive to answer the questions asked in the two threads (opposed to trying to get them shut down with the motive of avoiding the questions).
Let's see if @xcapri79 and @kevintomb can do as much?
I do see your points however; believe me.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
And Bingo was his name!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
DarqueKnight wrote: »
There have been lots of times (documented on this forum) when I sent a cable back because I didn't hear a difference or improvement, and had the opposite result when I revisited the same cable after an equipment upgrade.
Bingo.....again.
We've been saying this all along. Cables making a difference isn't as cut and dry as some want to make it out to be. Simply way too many variables.
You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who does a review like DK does, even from audio magazines who get paid to review stuff. Plus he backs it up with measurements/science.....which some say is always missing.
If you can/can't hear a difference on your system with your ears, doesn't mean someone else can/can't in theirs. If you can subscribe to that statement, then we can be done with silly cable threads like this.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Yamaha RX-A3020, Polk: LSiM705's, LSiM706c, LSiM703's, TL2's, BIC America F12.[quote="What equipment??
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Yamaha RX-A3020, Polk: LSiM705's, LSiM706c, LSiM703's, TL2's, BIC America F12.
all depends on your budget, if your looking for something in the same price range, stay with what you have. Personally though, for surrounds and center, in HT applications, it's fine. Music though is another story and I might try another cable for the front left and right.
For cheap, Gregg Straley Reality cables offer a well balanced sound for not a lot of coin. Someone here just picked up a 6 ft pair for 75 bucks, so you don't need to break the bank to try new stuff.
Better...Mit shotgun S3 speaker cables. If you can't tell a difference with these cables, as an old forum member used to say....I'll eat my flat hat.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Just tired of the trolls, I am willing to bet on my actual experience, not what can be read on the net.
No, i get it. Part of why i took a hiatus from this site. "Good" to see that the eternal debate is still alive and well.
My original comment wasn't necessarily directed at you, btw. I hear a difference in cables (sometimes large... Ben's silver cables made my setup sound like it was broken), but i just don't care enough if any other people hear a difference to start the discussion. I'll engage, as you have, but if someone feels the need to post a 3 part novel on why swapping cables can't affect your personal enjoyment of your stereo, then they just get ignored, because how do they know?
I don't care if it's placebo effect.
If i enjoy the perceived differences that cables make in my setup, then it's scientifically disproven that i can hear a difference, does my increased enjoyment magically go away?
No.
Delicious snake oil is still delicious.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
Thanks tb I want to spend enough (on the fronts) that I am bound to hear a difference if I can't hear any difference, I can stop worrying about it. Thinking the MIT's are the way to go, would u still bi-wire MITs?
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I think the general consensus is to simply bash anything fairly low priced, and anything that is AVR.
I have owned about a half dozen receivers over the last several years, and on a whim bought an entry level Sony AVR a few years ago, for my one home threatre set up and expected it to sound like crap after reading comments in a few forums.
To my surprise it sounded quite good. In fact all the bad comments I had read, turned out to be mostly not true.
I still like my one HK from 1981, but honestly it cost 219.99 at the time, which was a decent bit for a 20 WPC basic receiver.
But I got my sony for $169.99 on sale, and it does a lot more, and still sounds fairly good.
Not perfect mind you, and not the final word on anything, but not even close to as bad as how some describe them.
I think this quote, from another thread, might help us understand the level of equipment that our friend Kevin might be using. I NOW understand all his comments.
2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Norma Revo DAC-2, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon, WAY power cables for all other sources. -
LOL. Deja Moo. Good one.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Keep dancing..... We have been exposed to some of the equipment but nothing worthy of a discussion.2 Channel Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II, 2 REL Carbon Limited, Norma Revo IPA-140B, Norma Revo DAC-2, Lumin U2 Mini, VPI Prime w/SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC, Modwright PH 150, Denon DP-59l w/Denon DL-301MKII, WAY Silver 3 Ana+ Speaker Cables, WAY Interconnect Cables, AudioQuest Niagara 7000 w/Dragon, WAY power cables for all other sources.
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I think this quote, from another thread, might help us understand the level of equipment that our friend Kevin might be using. I NOW understand all his comments.
Yeah, that explains a lot.
-Kevin
HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
2 Channel:
Oppo BDP-83 SE
Squeezebox Touch
Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
VTL 2.5
McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
B&W 801's
Transparent IC's -
Okay, clearly trolling. Added to ignore list.My main media is 128kbps MP3, and Cassette and low quality streaming.
I am running some Sound Design speakers from a 3 piece system from the 1980s.
My panasonic thrusters are still belting out the tunes!
Beach Audio: Rega RP6 (mods) - AT33PTG/II - Parks Budgie SUT - PSAudio NPC * Eversolo DMP-A6 * Topping D90iii * Joule-Electra LA-100 mkIII * Pass Aleph 30 * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 2.3tl (mods) * PSAudio PPP3
Beach Study: Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354 * PSA Dectet
Beach Master: WiiM Pro * Dayens Menuetto * Zu Libtec * Dynaudio Audience 50
Beach Den: Bluesound Powernode 2i * DH Labs SS Q10 * Zu Omen DWII * Richard Gray RGPC
Town Study: WiiM Pro * Chord Qute (Pardo) * Elekit TU-8600 * MIT S3 * Revel M22 * Beyer DT-990 * Shunyata Hydra 2
Town Den: Music Hall mm5.1se - Denon DL-103r - Jolida JD9ii (mods) * WiiM Pro * Cary xCiter * Rogue 99 Magnum * Schiit Aegir * MIT S3 * Polk SRS 1.2tl (mods) * Dectet * Bottlehead Crack - Senn 600
Town Porch: WiiM Pro Plus * Sunfire Sig II * Canare 4S11 * Magnepan 1.6 * Dectet -
My main media is 128kbps MP3, and Cassette and low quality streaming.
I am running some Sound Design speakers from a 3 piece system from the 1980s.
My panasonic thrusters are still belting out the tunes!
I think the point here is that you are expressing your opinions among a group of people that aspire to a high-fidelity listening experience. You clearly do not. Which is fine I suppose, but totally invalidates your input regarding such matters and makes your input unwelcome and inappropriate.
If fidelity is your goal, why not come clean and tell us what your reference system is?
I don't necessarily disagree with some of your points, but I would like to know what your baseline for fidelity is. Judging by the above quote, and the previous one from @tratliff, you have a low bar.
-Kevin
HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
2 Channel:
Oppo BDP-83 SE
Squeezebox Touch
Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
VTL 2.5
McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
B&W 801's
Transparent IC's -
My main media is 128kbps MP3, and Cassette and low quality streaming.
I am running some Sound Design speakers from a 3 piece system from the 1980s.
My panasonic thrusters are still belting out the tunes!
That explains A LOT!
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I for one don't agree, but your certainly welcome to stand in the minority.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I think we can at least now partially agree, though, that speaker cables falls into that realm.
That would be a big, HELL NO WE DON"T.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
LOL.....ya know, for someone with "no dog in this fight", he certainly wants at least some to believe in this supposed "audio myth". Put the shovel down Kevin, you won't like North Korea.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I think we can at least now partially agree, though, that speaker cables falls into that realm.
Still trolling. It never stops.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Okay guys, leaving the discussion at this point.
It is pointless to get into a discussion of anything that is considered an "Audio Myth".
I think we can at least now partially agree, though, that speaker cables falls into that realm.
But....but....but, you @kevintomb (and @xcapri79 ) still haven't adressed any of the questions that were asked in this thread and the ".....time of day" thread. What happened to a friendly debate and reasoning things out using logic?
Also, you have yet to prove that speaker cables fall into the "audio myth" category. So, I believe that a majority of us do not agree with your sentiment.
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
RECOMENDATIONS?
This thread unfortunately morphed into yet another IC/wire mudslinging thread.
That said: lF one was in the market for bulk length inexpensive light speaker wire in the 18-20 gage range for, say, tweeters - either rewiring or true bi-amping.
I have some Monster cable I got free about that size but appreciate other opinions.
Thanks in advance for mature responses.
TonySamsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro, Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer
Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside
BJC 10 ga - LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
*soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop)
LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels*. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - RB981*
Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981* -> Bi-amped CSi A6
Surrounds: Rotel 981* -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3
*all connected w/Premiere ICs
5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”
Power Conditioning & Distribution:
4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s -
BJC or Canare....but you can find great deals on the used markets too.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's
This discussion has been closed.