Bi-Wiring, what exactly is it doing?

ukcolin99

The Polk Quick Start Guide that came with my 703's, 705's & 706 states "Bi-Wiring can provide noticeable improvements in the overall transparency of your loudspeakers. Remove the jumpers, run 2 sets speaker wire from same terminals on the the amp to the low & high frequency drivers(abbrev)."
Is there less 'power' feeding the speakers, because the jumpers are gone the speakers produce better sound? Is that what transparency means? Thank you for any info, seems like some music tracks sound better, difficult to nail down exactly what it is.

Hermitism

A lot of the people here believe that the improvements you hear with bi-wiring is due to the elimination of the jumper, which in most cases is of lesser quality than the speaker cables you are using.

Hermitism

I use biwire cables. But in my case, I was having custom cables made and it was cheaper to use biwire cables than use single wire and then have matching jumpers made from the same wire. For me it was all about saving $$.

GlennDog

I recently commissioned doug of DouglasConnection to make jumpers for me. They appear to be of very good quality & Doug is a very conscientious cable maker.
Mine were approx 100 smackers . . .a far cry from MITs 700 jumpers
But like everything, you get what you pay for ...

Upstatemax

On my old LSi 9's and RTi A7's is was all about getting rid of the stock jumpers.

I found better separation and an overall more cohesive sound stage.

Hermitism

Doug is who made mine also. Super nice guy!

[Deleted User]

I can tell you that when I had lower quality regular speaker cable hooked
up to my 703's they had this phat bass sound. When I was lucky enough
to go Audioquest bi-wire it eliminated that issue. Surprisingly to me there
was a break in period when I switched. I had been running the the single cable
method for 2 months.
Here is what AQ thinks
http://www.audioquest.com/resource_tools/LearningMods/UndrstndgBiWr.pdf

mhardy6647

There are quasi-technical explanations on-line, but I've gotta say that the physics eludes me. In all fairness, I am a biochemist (dammit, Jim!), not a physicist... but still...

That said, it seems to me to be at worst a benign thing to do (i.e., biwiring should do no harm to any components so interconnected).

tonyb

Has nothing to do with power. More so a better signal transfer. Same thing can be accomplished by replacing those stock brass jumper plates that came with your speakers. Some use different wire jumpers, home made ones, or just use bi-wired cables. Ideally you want to use the same wire as your speaker cable, hence the appeal of bi-wired.

specd_out

I have to agree with the jumper removal being the only really improvement. I never really noticed much of a difference. I have gotten more improvement from spiking the speakers and proper placement. I did it for the looks mainly. I love the way 4 wires run to the speaker look vs only two to the top or bottom

pumpkinman

I've done a number of combo's bi-wire w/ 2 runs, with jumpers made from the same wire and jumpers with a larger gauge and so on. I personally could never hear a diff. I never use the factory jumpers and the stock ones that came with my 3.1 TL's were laughable.

ukcolin99

Thanks all, mixed bag of benefits although gotta believe Polk would not recommend bi-wire if it didn't help. For the record below is pic of the jumpers that came with my recent Polk purchases.

F1nut

Your crossover has a separate high and low circuit. The jumpers bridge those circuits. Bi-wiring replaces the jumpers as the bridge and depending on the jumpers may effectively increase the wire gauge. You can do the same by replacing your stock jumpers with ones of higher quality, which would generally also mean an increase in the wire gauge.

ZLTFUL

xcapri79 wrote: »

They work. I doubt you will I would hear any difference between those jumpers and bi-wiring but you may because everyone's ears are different with some people being more sensitive and some people being less sensitive to changes in sound.

Went ahead and made your statement more fact than opinion. You're welcome.

PolkieMan

I would think rewiring the inside of the speaker with the highest quality wire would make more of an improvement than the bi-wire of course do it complete and also change the jumper wires too. I think Polk does it because other manufactures do it also and your trying to sell product so you best have what the other guy has too because that consumer is going to think wow this is High End.

Nightfall

Isn't this a two way street? The argument that if you think something is going to change the sound it will for you. How about if you're already biased that changing a certain item won't change the sound then it won't for you. So who's right? How about both?

xcapri79 wrote: »

I and others have yet to see any laboratory measurements

Not everything can be measured, or we haven't found a way yet, as far as sound quality. Can sound stage and imaging be measured? No. By your logic every setup should have the same sound stage and imaging capabilities, no?

The instruments that measure sound CANNOT be compared to what we hear with our ears and brain. They're not even remotely complex enough.

F1nut

The following link is very beneficial to read if you are the gullible type and put your trust in a hypocrite.

Fixed it for ya.

SCompRacer

I bi-wire cause I had the wire cause I horizontally bi-amped with an active crossover with a different pair of speakers and sold the speakers and amps but not the wire. If I could get matching terminations, I'd un-internal bi-wire my internal bi-wire pair and sell the others, but Harmonic Technology changed hands and don't supply matching terminations which would devalue the cables if I sold them.

ZLTFUL

Actually, reality is exactly one's perception.

Everyone's brains are built differently. Look at your ears and then compare them with a friend or spouse. There are clear differences in ears.
Everyone perceives things differently from everyone else.
How else do you explain why some people like classical music while other prefer heavy metal? What sounds pleasant to one person may sound grating or annoying to another.
It is *all* about perception and that makes perception reality.
Your perceptions may differ from mine but it doesn't make them any more or less *real* than mine.

tonyb

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Actually, reality is exactly one's perception.

Everyone's brains are built differently. Look at your ears and then compare them with a friend or spouse. There are clear differences in ears.
Everyone perceives things differently from everyone else.
How else do you explain why some people like classical music while other prefer heavy metal? What sounds pleasant to one person may sound grating or annoying to another.
It is *all* about perception and that makes perception reality.
Your perceptions may differ from mine but it doesn't make them any more or less *real* than mine.

Couldn't have said it better myself, good post. Adding to that.....it is the differences in perception, aka reality, that gives us such a variety in gear to pick from too.

Don't confuse preferences with perception either, they may have some similarities but are not the same.

I'd still like to know what scientific measurement, exactly, will tell me how a cables soundstage presentation will sound in height,width, depth. Which number on these so called scientific measurements tells me about separation of instruments, placement on a stage, air around notes. If they could indeed do that, they would rate them in each category....but they can't.

Why ? Perception....our own reality is different between us all. A cable is an "interconnect" between 2 pieces of gear. Depending on a variety of things in materials used, design.....it will react differently to a variety of gear hooked up to it. Not a hard concept to follow.

After all, the differences in anything, even non-audio related, comes down to quality of parts used and design, build quality. That's what separates a Ford from a Lexus, a Pass amp from an Emotiva, and an MIT cable from Monoprice. Which also btw, dictates that quality costs more. Also not a hard concept to follow.

When we look at gear, we drool over the latest and greatest tech, dac chip, tube, build quality, volume controls, software, etc.....all things that may change your reality. Why do we fail to present the same criteria for ourselves when it comes to cables ? Because many do not look at cables as "gear". Simply a means to an end.....connecting 2 pieces of gear to get sound.

Everything in your chain alters the sound to some degree, cables included.

tonyb

Then I respectfully disagree with everything you just said. Aside from the fact that marketing claims are just that, marketing....everything else is simply a testimony to a lack of experience. No offense meant Kevin.

erniejade

"kevintomb wrote: »

To answer the first bolded part.
A cable has NO soundstage at all. Nor separation of instruments, placement etc. '
It conducts an alternating current signal.
It will either conduct the signal fully intact or degrade it some minimal amount.

The rest is sales talk.
All facets of alternating current can be fully measured, at ALL levels down to below human hearing.

Sorry it really is that simple.

Not everything alters the sound. That is a myth also.

SOME and even many things alter the sound true, but not truly everything.

The guys that design all this stuff we listen to, truly know what matters or does not, not the marketing claims.

I usually do not jump in on this kind of stuff but,........

A cable has NO soundstage at all. Nor separation of instruments, placement etc. '
It conducts an alternating current signal.
It will either conduct the signal fully intact or degrade it some minimal amount

Agree but the way it degrades sound will effect everything you just said so yes cables do matter. Some play nicely with certain equipment and some do not.

Not everything alters the sound. That is a myth also.

That is correct if your system cannot resolve or tell the difference. This statement depends on your system. Some of our systems when we move the speaker an inch in either direction we can hear a difference. If we change a cable, we can hear a difference, if we use the same cd on a different cd player or same cd player with a different dac, we can hear a difference. If you can't, your system doesnt reasolve enough.

vc69

ZLTFUL

Fastest way to lose all credibility on the internet...cite Consumerist or Audioholics posts in your argument.

F1nut

ZLTFUL wrote: »

Fastest way to lose all credibility on the internet...cite Consumerist or Audioholics posts in your argument.

Like he had any to begin with.

BlueFox

An interesting point is that while xcapri79 lists gear in his sig, there is no mention of cables, power cords, and power conditioners. From that, one can infer he simply throws money at gear thinking that is all it takes to improve sound quality. While gear obviously has its place, my philosophy is to extract the most audio possible from the gear by improving both cables and power, and then move onto new gear. Build a good foundation, and then your gear, both current and new, will work at its best.

ukcolin99

And the beat goes on. Some wag pointed out that not everyone is familiar with the font size on the back of the Quick Start Guide that Polk includes with every new speaker. And because my camera is working right now, here you go. Dime & quarter. P.S. I am going to try & jam the bi'ed-wires into banana plugs instead of wrapped bare around amp connectors.

F1nut

While gear obviously has its place, my philosophy is to extract the most audio possible from the gear by improving both cables and power

An excellent philosophy.

F1nut

I currently use various brands such as Acoustic Research, Emotiva, Pangea, Monoprice, Monster, etc.

Generally, it's best to use the same brand as they are designed to work together.

Interconnect, speaker cables and power cords etc. are the least costly elements in the chain, so I don't list them.

I cannot understand why some folks think that cables are somehow not an integral part of the rig and skimp on them.

For power conditioners, I use various models of the Monster units and haven't had an electronic equipment failure in my lighting and outage prone area for several years.

Those are not known for their fidelity.

F1nut

At first I had very little experience, then progressed into a lot and bought into all the cables and stuff to a moderate amount, then finally with a lot more experience, moved past the hype, fell back on my electronics and audio friends experiences in designing etc, and realized, it was a lot of hype and sales talk mostly.

I'm just the opposite. The more I got into this hobby, the more I realized the importance of high quality cable.

When I found out that cables are HUGE profit makers, I asked a lot more stuff. I found out, too much maybe.
Sometimes TOO MUCH experience and answers can move one back away from something they did love and believe in.

Let's say for a minute that SOME cables have a huge profit margin because not all do. So flipping what, if they take your rig to the next level, who cares.

tonyb

F1nut wrote: »

While gear obviously has its place, my philosophy is to extract the most audio possible from the gear by improving both cables and power

An excellent philosophy.

Yes it is, and one I also subscribe too. Too many times we wind up switching out gear because it doesn't tickle our fancy when in reality a simple cable change can bring all that synergy together.