Bi-Wiring, what exactly is it doing?

vc69

I wish my wallet could follow my opinions.

tratliff

tonyb wrote: »

I also find it funny that X has bought some Monster cables in the FM. All those lessor brands must be broke I guess. Ahh....but he only paid 20 bucks, and that's the crux of the matter right there. A lot of times peoples opinions follow their wallet.

Tony. I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have a feeling that some have wallets that cannot afford them the luxury of high quality cables. Therefore they don't know what they don't know because they have never been exposed to the better cables.

That's not to say that cables must cost big $$$'s to be great but you have to be open to spending the $$$'s to see the difference.

BlueFox

tonyb wrote: »

Now, that's not to say there isn't any either, but I would also say that's certainly a minority. So all these highly educated people who build this stuff, must all be somehow compromised...crazy....idiots ? People with far more credentials than you ?

I will take this opportunity to plug Shunyata.

As an engineer, I appreciate the engineering, science, and patents behind Shunyata products. As a customer, I have discovered that their products have greatly improved the resolution of my system, with both current and previous gear.

The founder, Caelin Gabriel, seems to have a basic grasp of electronics.

“Within the audio-video industry, there is no engineer with a more complete understanding of the scientific tenets critical to signal isolation and current delivery. These unique work related experiences at the highest levels of government and computer science led Caelin Gabriel to develop a series of fundamental precepts for the patented technologies and custom-designed parts that form the cornerstone of Shunyata Research products.”

http://www.shunyata.com/about-shunyata/people

A list of manufacturers and others who are fooled by Shunyata snake-oil.

Audio Research Corporation
Balanced Audio Technology
Bel Canto Design
Focal France
Meridian-America
VTL Audio
Wilson Audio

http://www.shunyata.com/reviews-all/manufacturer-endorsements

Studios, etc. that use Shunyata products.
http://www.shunyata.com/reviews-all/pro-users

When Kevin and ‘X-man’ start a successful company based on their ‘engineering’ then they might acquire some credibility.

ZLTFUL

kevintomb wrote: »

YET, at the same time.....

No one can pass a blind test and pick out their "Better cables"

I do not have a dog in the fight.

I am not looking to convince people to spend their money.

Incredibly bold statements considering our discussions via PM where I gave you the run down of my blind testing and now you are publicly dismissing it completely and claiming your tests are somehow more valid than mine.
Seems that is throwing a big fat basset hound into the fight right there.

And no...you are insinuating that people are stupid for spending THEIR money.

tratliff

Kevin -

Just for sh*ts and giggles give us some insight into the cables that were used and also the equipment. I am certain that my statements would be proven true when that information is provided.

Help us understand your thoughts????? Don't just feed us techno babble. I can state specs all day. Real life scenarios work better.

vmaxer

Deleted - will try the quote thing again later...

vmaxer

kevintomb wrote: »

YET, at the same time.....

No one can pass a blind test and pick out their "Better cables"

I do not have a dog in the fight.

I am not looking to convince people to spend their money.

I am willing to bet that I can pick between my MIT's and Audioquest Diamondback I/C cables every time on my system....

You in?? We can meet up and set the system up - you can switch all you want without my knowledge.

Make it a substantial amount so it isn't a waste of my time and we'll do it!!

tonyb

kevintomb wrote: »

I am not looking to convince people to spend their money.

No, your looking to convince people to not spend their money.....on something you know nothing about yet. Is that not why you and a few others always jump on cable threads ? Just asking is all, you keep saying you have no dog in this fight yet you keep posting in it.

tratliff

vmaxer wrote: »

I am willing to bet that I can pick between my MIT's and Audioquest Diamondback I/C cables every time on my system....

You in?? We can meet up and set the system up - you can switch all you want without my knowledge.

Make it a substantial amount so it isn't a waste of my time and we'll do it!!

I'll take a piece of that bet. My money is on VMAXER.

concealer404

You guys sure like to care about what others think a lot, don't you?

vmaxer

tratliff wrote: »

vmaxer wrote: »

I am willing to bet that I can pick between my MIT's and Audioquest Diamondback I/C cables every time on my system....

You in?? We can meet up and set the system up - you can switch all you want without my knowledge.

Make it a substantial amount so it isn't a waste of my time and we'll do it!!

I'll take a piece of that bet. My money is on VMAXER.

I really think either he has never had a good enough system to tell or just another troll.

There was a time I couldn't tell the difference, but as I have upgraded over the years it is almost unbelievable how much difference cables can make. I love the hobby (if that's a correct way to say it). I just wish I could afford the really high end.

ukcolin99

10 pages of speaker cable exchanges has tweaked my interest. Crutchfield has many $ levels of AudioQuest cable, are they worthy, should I pick my price point and order?
With my setup should I be able to tell the difference? Currently using C&E CNE62270 100-Feet 12AWG Enhanced Loud Oxygen-Free Copper Speaker Wire $40 from Amazon and Deadbolt Banana Plugs, 12-pair, By Sewell Direct $30? Anyone's 2 cents appreciated.

vmaxer

cbridle wrote: »

10 pages of speaker cable exchanges has tweaked my interest. Crutchfield has many $ levels of AudioQuest cable, are they worthy, should I pick my price point and order?
With my setup should I be able to tell the difference? Currently using C&E CNE62270 100-Feet 12AWG Enhanced Loud Oxygen-Free Copper Speaker Wire $40 from Amazon and Deadbolt Banana Plugs, 12-pair, By Sewell Direct $30? Anyone's 2 cents appreciated.

I have no experience with those so I can't really say.

What equipment??

vmaxer

concealer404 wrote: »

You guys sure like to care about what others think a lot, don't you?

Just tired of the trolls, I am willing to bet on my actual experience, not what can be read on the net.

tonyb

Yep, 5 rounds of MIT cable demo's and everyone of them must be some sort of delusional, uneducated caveman....on LSD no less.

skrol

Just finished my 2nd bag of popcorn.

ken brydson

skrol wrote: »

Just finished my 2nd bag of popcorn.

Only 2??

ken brydson

Name the troll...

headrott

xcapri79 wrote: »

tonyb wrote: »

Yep, 5 rounds of MIT cable demo's and everyone of them must be some sort of delusional, uneducated caveman....on LSD no less.

This is my nomination for post of the year.

Perhaps, instead of following the usual pattern, you could address some of the questions brought up in this thread and the "sound quality and time of day" thread?

I think we could all potentially learn something if you would make the choice to do so?

What do you say?

BlueFox

LOL. Greg, you are an optimist.

DarqueKnight

vmaxer wrote: »

There was a time I couldn't tell the difference, but as I have upgraded over the years it is almost unbelievable how much difference cables can make. I love the hobby (if that's a correct way to say it). I just wish I could afford the really high end.

There have been lots of times (documented on this forum) when I sent a cable back because I didn't hear a difference or improvement, and had the opposite result when I revisited the same cable after an equipment upgrade.

DarqueKnight

vmaxer wrote: »

Just tired of the trolls, ...

If you starve them they will die.

BlueFox

I don't mind the trolls per se, but I have decided I am no longer going to be insulted by those clowns. Implying that people who can hear differences with cables are delusional, or weak minded, is crossing the line.

headrott

BlueFox wrote: »

LOL. Greg, you are an optimist.

Keiko wrote: »

Highly doubtful, Greg.

Just pointing out that rather than trying to follow the same behavioral pattern(s), it would be much more constructive to answer the questions asked in the two threads (opposed to trying to get them shut down with the motive of avoiding the questions).

Let's see if @xcapri79 and @kevintomb can do as much?

I do see your points however; believe me.

F1nut

And Bingo was his name!

tonyb

DarqueKnight wrote: »

vmaxer wrote: »

There was a time I couldn't tell the difference, but as I have upgraded over the years it is almost unbelievable how much difference cables can make. I love the hobby (if that's a correct way to say it). I just wish I could afford the really high end.

There have been lots of times (documented on this forum) when I sent a cable back because I didn't hear a difference or improvement, and had the opposite result when I revisited the same cable after an equipment upgrade.

Bingo.....again.

We've been saying this all along. Cables making a difference isn't as cut and dry as some want to make it out to be. Simply way too many variables.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who does a review like DK does, even from audio magazines who get paid to review stuff. Plus he backs it up with measurements/science.....which some say is always missing.

If you can/can't hear a difference on your system with your ears, doesn't mean someone else can/can't in theirs. If you can subscribe to that statement, then we can be done with silly cable threads like this.

ukcolin99

vmaxer wrote: »

[quote="What equipment??

Yamaha RX-A3020, Polk: LSiM705's, LSiM706c, LSiM703's, TL2's, BIC America F12.

tonyb

cbridle wrote: »

vmaxer wrote: »

[quote="What equipment??

Yamaha RX-A3020, Polk: LSiM705's, LSiM706c, LSiM703's, TL2's, BIC America F12.

all depends on your budget, if your looking for something in the same price range, stay with what you have. Personally though, for surrounds and center, in HT applications, it's fine. Music though is another story and I might try another cable for the front left and right.

For cheap, Gregg Straley Reality cables offer a well balanced sound for not a lot of coin. Someone here just picked up a 6 ft pair for 75 bucks, so you don't need to break the bank to try new stuff.

Better...Mit shotgun S3 speaker cables. If you can't tell a difference with these cables, as an old forum member used to say....I'll eat my flat hat.

concealer404

vmaxer wrote: »

concealer404 wrote: »

You guys sure like to care about what others think a lot, don't you?

Just tired of the trolls, I am willing to bet on my actual experience, not what can be read on the net.

No, i get it. Part of why i took a hiatus from this site. "Good" to see that the eternal debate is still alive and well.

My original comment wasn't necessarily directed at you, btw. I hear a difference in cables (sometimes large... Ben's silver cables made my setup sound like it was broken), but i just don't care enough if any other people hear a difference to start the discussion. I'll engage, as you have, but if someone feels the need to post a 3 part novel on why swapping cables can't affect your personal enjoyment of your stereo, then they just get ignored, because how do they know?

I don't care if it's placebo effect.

If i enjoy the perceived differences that cables make in my setup, then it's scientifically disproven that i can hear a difference, does my increased enjoyment magically go away?

No.

Delicious snake oil is still delicious.

ukcolin99

Thanks tb I want to spend enough (on the fronts) that I am bound to hear a difference if I can't hear any difference, I can stop worrying about it. Thinking the MIT's are the way to go, would u still bi-wire MITs?