The Dared SL 2000 modification thread

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  • Stew
    Stew Posts: 645
    edited October 2011
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    Thanks Outfitter. I was trying to understand why both caps are needed. I assume the first one keeps DC out of the feedback loop and the second one keeps any DC from the feedback loop out of the signal to the amp. Just wishful thinking that 2 would fit easier than 4.
    SDA 2B-TL (Sonicap/Solen/Mills, Erse Super Q, Rings, Spikes, No-Rez)
    1000VA Dreadnought
    Dared SL-2000a (Siemens & Halske TM 12AT7WA's, Brimar 5Z4G)
    Jolida JD-100a (Sylvania BP TM Gold Brand 5751's), NAD C275BEE, Blue Jeans

    RTiA3, Onkyo TX-SR605
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  • jessie52
    jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited October 2011
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    Just loved the sound of the RCA 12AT7 black plates on my Dared Sl-2000A.
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,223
    edited November 2011
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    Keiko wrote: »
    Amperex, Siemens, Telefunken, Valvo, etc. (ECC81) are the best of the best, generally, but be prepared to spend more on the European tubes. I just won snow's karma for some Siemens ECC801S that I'm really looking forward to trying. This variant is said to be the cream of the crop for the 12AT7 types. Siemens and Teles being the best for this tube. Use this link as a guideline.

    http://www.audiotubes.com/12at7.htm

    Have fun rolling, bro. :wink:

    After reading the info and descriptions here I sprung for a pair of ECC81 Mullard's off of Ebay.
    Anxious to try others. Does anyone have experience with the Ebay sellers in Germany or Turkey ????
    Had to pick somewhere to start out so........ :cool:
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,223
    edited November 2011
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    Mike - Got it. Definitely more reading in order. Thanks. :cool:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited November 2011
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    nap wrote: »
    After reading the info and descriptions here I sprung for a pair of ECC81 Mullard's off of Ebay.
    Anxious to try others. Does anyone have experience with the Ebay sellers in Germany or Turkey ????
    Had to pick somewhere to start out so........ :cool:

    Which ones in Turkey or Germany?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited November 2011
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    Hey Nap, let me check my stash I may have a pair of wonderful Valvo Hamburg tubes I'd be willing to sell. I need to thin the herd a little bit as I went a little crazy buying certain tubes. Let me check this evening. Let me know if you are interested.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,223
    edited November 2011
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    Keiko wrote: »
    Tony, did you get the Brimar yet?

    Yes, it came rather quickly from the UK (very impressed by this). Haven't done any listening yet as I wanted to have a replacement option in place for the stock tubes that came with the pre amp. I am waiting for the Mullard's to show up.
    Cheers. :cool:
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 1,223
    edited November 2011
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Hey Nap, let me check my stash I may have a pair of wonderful Valvo Hamburg tubes I'd be willing to sell. I need to thin the herd a little bit as I went a little crazy buying certain tubes. Let me check this evening. Let me know if you are interested.

    H9

    Sure, let me know what you have. Send me a PM, Thanks. :cool:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited November 2011
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    The early Brimar is the winner here for rectification, IMO. I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a 1959 Mullard GZ30 for comparison. Nap, which Mullards did you get? The later Mullard CV's are not all that hot. I can't believe you haven't hooked her up yet. :lol:
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited November 2011
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    $15.95 plus $8 shipping from the U.K. I am guessing the date based on the tube code, logos and writing on the tube. Not a lot of solid info out there on the Mullard GZ30/5Z4GT. It has an early Mullard sheild logo, a BVA stamp, and says "British Made" on it. All lead me to believe it's an earlier tube than what's typically seen. The tube code puts it at 1956 or 1966. 56 seems a bit early and 66 seems too late based on the markings. I figure for less than $25 it was worth a shot and should be a good rectifier even if it turns out to be later than I suspect.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited November 2011
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    AFAICT,

    "British Made" appears on mid-late 50's tubes
    "Made In Great Britain" started showing up in the early 60's
    "Gt. Britain" started showing up in the late 60's early 70's

    Actually if the acid code is to be believed these are probably from 1956.

    6H1
    B6K

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 9,399
    edited November 2011
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Actually if the acid code is to be believed these are probably from 1956.

    6H1
    B6K

    H9

    No way that H9 code is from the '50's. More like the '70's, I'm thinkin.
    :cheesygrin:
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • audio_alan
    audio_alan Posts: 770
    edited November 2011
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    Hey Larry, Mike, Brock and everyone else. It's been a while since I've been on the forums. I hope everyone is doing well!

    I noticed one of you guys mentioned a new rectifier, the "5Z4G TUNGSRAM". What are you guys thinking of that one now? Any better (or different in a good way) than a vintage Brimar? Just wondering if I should pick one up...

    I'm still running an old Brimar rectifier with a nice set of Valvo signal tubes (or sometimes long-plate Sylvanias or other signal tubes for a change). I had a guy over the other night that hadn't heard my setup yet, and just had some low background music going from my PS3 (running through my surround sound setup). After a while he commented on the sound from my SDA-SRS's. *** Cue show-off time *** I said, "You haven't heard anything yet!". I proceeded to fire up my 2 channel rig with the Dared and let it warm up for about 30 minutes. Then I cranked up a few tunes and he said, and I quote, "Wow, thanks for the outer body experience!" :cheesygrin: Yep, I'm still diggin the Dared!

    Larry - How's the tube rollin going? Sounds like you got some Tele's, nice! I still haven't ponied up the money for a set of those yet. If you're interested, we could get together and do some tube rollin sometime. It's probably nothing compared to Brock's stash, but I built up a moderate sized stash of rectifiers and varying signal tubes. However, if you have a nice rectifier with those Tele's, you're probably already in music nirvana!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited November 2011
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    Alan check the FM I am selling a small part of my stash :mrgreen:

    Congrats on the enjoyment. I also will be selling a couple really old Brimar rectifiers shortly.

    Enjoy.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • audio_alan
    audio_alan Posts: 770
    edited November 2011
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Alan check the FM I am selling a small part of my stash :mrgreen:

    Congrats on the enjoyment. I also will be selling a couple really old Brimar rectifiers shortly.

    Enjoy.

    H9

    H9 - Thanks for the offer, and I'll take a look, but I think I'm out of the market for more tubes at the moment (famous last words, right?!). I'm spending too much money on building my man cave right now...

    On another note, is there a verdict on which upgraded Caps made the most difference in the Dared? Was it worth it?

    Alan
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited November 2011
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    Was it worth it,, for me yes,,but thats what I do,,, I used Teflon's(Big A$$ Russian) on the inputs and Obligatto's on the output,IMHO,,they took it to another level,midrange bloominess etc,,,not alot of real estate to work with,,,so if you are fainthearted you might not want to perform this mod--just my .02 worth.Good luck.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • audio_alan
    audio_alan Posts: 770
    edited November 2011
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    george daniel wrote: »
    Was it worth it,, for me yes,,but thats what I do,,, I used Teflon's(Big A$$ Russian) on the inputs and Obligatto's on the output,IMHO,,they took it to another level,midrange bloominess etc,,,not alot of real estate to work with,,,so if you are fainthearted you might not want to perform this mod--just my .02 worth.Good luck.

    George -Thanks for the response. Yeah, I was a little concerned about how tight it looks in there. I'll probably try the mod sometime down the road, but I probably need to back burner the idea for now because I have too many projects on my plate as it is....
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  • jessie52
    jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited December 2011
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    RCA 12AT7 BPs are great sounding tubes. I prefer them over the Mullards 4024s, Jan Phillips and even the Tungsrams. I wonder if the Teles or Amperexs would be better than the RCAs.
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  • jessie52
    jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited December 2011
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    george daniel wrote: »
    pic's please.
    DARED SL-2000A.jpg

    I opened up my Dared SL-2000A and found 3 different uf values : 2.2uf, 1uf and .047uf with 3 different colored caps. Would anyone know what caps are these? I'm sorry if the pics seem not that clear.
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited December 2011
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    What are you folks doing for isolation feet for the 2000A?
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited December 2011
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    mine were 1.0Uf caps(output),and there were 4 of them.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • mfg
    mfg Posts: 17
    edited May 2012
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    Hi, all. This thread was what got me to join the forum. Great stuff.

    I'm wondering if someone could forward me a copy of the schematics. I've attached photos of the unit with the back off so it is clear which edition I've got.

    Thanks in advance.

    -Matt.

    Dared 2000a board 01.jpg
    Dared 2000a board 02.jpg
    -Matt
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited May 2012
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    I'm still looking for mine--try Brock(H9),,I think that I emailed him a copy.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • mfg
    mfg Posts: 17
    edited May 2012
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    Thanks, George. I just sent a note to Brock. I really appreciate the help!!

    -Matt
    -Matt
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited May 2012
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    george daniel wrote: »
    I'm still looking for mine--try Brock(H9),,I think that I emailed him a copy.
    mfg wrote: »
    Thanks, George. I just sent a note to Brock. I really appreciate the help!!

    -Matt

    Hi Matt,

    I'm sure I have George's e-mail here somewhere, I'll email it to you when I find it. IIRC, Joe Zhou asked that it not be posted on the internet.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited May 2012
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    Yours looks like an earlier one like mine since it has the Auricaps and no gold pcb's or gold tube sockets. They made a gold version w/Auricaps too. Do you have a wooden remote or blueish key fob type?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • mfg
    mfg Posts: 17
    edited May 2012
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    H9, I've got the blue plastic remote with the clicking-step motor.

    I heard back from Joe (from Dared) and he provided me with the schematics. So, I'm in good shape there, and thanks to you and George for checking on these for me.

    I have been sort of away from the hi-fi for the last couple of years working on a degree. I was just getting back into some focused listening, thinking I might even try rolling some tubes, when things went south with the preamp. I figure I'll post to the 2-Channel or Troubleshooting sections of the forum with details on my problem in hope that I'll get some advice (right channel started crackling, and eventually pretty much shut off with just the faintest sound heard on that channel. Swapped tubes, same effect with input/outputs 1 and 2).

    Once I get this fixed, I intend to try one of those Bendix rectifiers if I can find one. It sounds like it made quite a difference on some systems.

    Thanks again for checking on those schematics. I really appreciate it.

    -Matt.
    -Matt
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited May 2012
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    Sorry to hear, that stinks. First place I would check is the Auricap coupling cap. Are you using the proper tubes? I ask not to presume you don't know what you are doing, but a local friend with the same era Dared had the same problem and it was because the previous owner used the wrong rectifier. Turned out to be a bad Auricap. Are you the original owner or second hand owner? Where are you located? There is an authorized service center (Deltronics) in the Chicago, IL suburbs that works on these, just an FYI.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,710
    edited May 2012
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    The Bendix 6106 is a nice rectifier but any variation of the Brimar/English 5Z4G is superior, IMO. When you get ready I have some extras as I have been sort of hoarding them :lol::wink:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited May 2012
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    heiney9 wrote: »
    Hi Matt,

    I'm sure I have George's e-mail here somewhere, I'll email it to you when I find it. IIRC, Joe Zhou asked that it not be posted on the internet.

    H9

    Thanks Brock,, Joe was kind enough to share it with me,,and I with others,,but please guys,,lets keep the schems private via e-mails--with that said--Brock,,please send me a copy,,I cannot find mine,,kinda embarrassing,,,and H9 is spot on about the rectifiers,,,you'd be hard pressed to find a better rectifier than the Brimar. Regards to all,,,and a big tip of the hat to H9.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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