The Dared SL 2000 modification thread

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Comments

  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,992
    edited September 2011
    So are there two versions of this preamp?? A USA version??

    Dunno,,, mine did not have auricaps,,but I'm pretty happy with it,especially after the cap upgrade.I suspect this thing would respond well to some Jenzen PIO caps,I have 4 Obligatto's that were sent (extra),,so if anyone wants em',, they can have them at cost plus shipping.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,112
    edited September 2011
    So are there two versions of this preamp?? A USA version??

    There are 3 versions technically and they are all US versions. When Auricaps jumped in cost Dared stopped using them and went with something (I can only assume) cheaper.

    They made a version with Auricaps coupling caps; a version with Auricaps and gold PCB and a non-Auricap version non-gold pcb version. All the same pre-amp but just some different parts in those key area's.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    I opened up my Dared SL-2000A and found 3 different uf values : 2.2uf, 1uf and .047uf with 3 different colored caps. Would anyone know what caps are these?
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,992
    edited September 2011
    pic's please.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • FTGVFTGV Posts: 3,651
    edited September 2011
    pic's please.

    +1..
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    Dunno,,, mine did not have auricaps,,but I'm pretty happy with it,especially after the cap upgrade.I suspect this thing would respond well to some Jenzen PIO caps,I have 4 Obligatto's that were sent (extra),,so if anyone wants em',, they can have them at cost plus shipping.

    Would the Obligatto Gold Premium fit?
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,992
    edited September 2011
    not in place of the yellow caps which are pcb mounted,,I had to get creative and mount them on the inside chassis and wire them to the board.H9 had a nice alternative posted above.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,992
    edited September 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Hey George or anyone else,

    I was thinking of possibly using (4) of these for the output coupling caps replacing the (4) square yellow Carli 1uF 400v caps.

    Anyone use these before, thoughts?

    http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_mundorf_rxf.html

    George if you still have the old yellow caps out would you mind doing a quick measure of them physically?

    Thanks

    H9


    Brock,,I looked this morning and could not find them,,I must have tossed em'.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    I'm using the Dared SL2000A preamp with a Tri 88SE tube integrated amp. Will the Dared render the preamp section of the Tri integrated amp useless? If so would this mean that the NOS tubes installed in the Tri preamp section will have no effect on the overall sonics anymore?
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    To what extend does the 5Y3 rectifier influence the overall sonic character of the Dared SL-2000A? Is the rectifier as important as the 12AT7 tubes?
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Which coupling caps are you talking about? Input or Output? George replaced both on his unit.

    (2) .22uF 400v input caps. Some units come stock with Auricaps in that position and you'd be hard pressed to find another cap that sounds as good w/o spending a whole lot more money

    (4) 1uF 400v output caps (Yellow square Carli caps)

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1598614&postcount=73

    Here is a photo of mine and the last pic in this post shows the (2) Auricap input caps and then the (4) Yellow "square" Carli caps for output caps
    Hi Heiney. If I replace the caps they should be (2) .22uf and (4) 1uf, right, not lower? Did the original Dared SL-2000A come with all (6) Auricaps? Would it be good enough just to replace just the (2) .22uf input caps? Thanks.
  • inspiredsportsinspiredsports Posts: 5,505
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    I'm using the Dared SL2000A preamp with a Tri 88SE tube integrated amp. Will the Dared render the preamp section of the Tri integrated amp useless? If so would this mean that the NOS tubes installed in the Tri preamp section will have no effect on the overall sonics anymore?

    If you are connecting your Dared pre to the pre in's, the preamp section of you Tri 88SE is out of circuit (adding nothing). The pre tubes in the Tri are then adding nothing (but don't ever remove and leave a tube socket empty).
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  • inspiredsportsinspiredsports Posts: 5,505
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    To what extend does the 5Y3 rectifier influence the overall sonic character of the Dared SL-2000A? Is the rectifier as important as the 12AT7 tubes?

    Rectifier tubes are important, and tube rolling the 5Y3 spot will yield sonic improvement when you find the right tube. I remember an old Dynaco PAS2 I owned that was absolutely "night and day different" based upon the rectifier tube. Your mileage may vary.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,112
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    To what extend does the 5Y3 rectifier influence the overall sonic character of the Dared SL-2000A? Is the rectifier as important as the 12AT7 tubes?

    It's as important as the 12AT7 signal tubes.

    It uses a 5Z4 or 5Y3. I switch between a Bendix 6106 (5Y3) and a Brimar 5Z4G both are superb but have a slightly different sound.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,992
    edited September 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It's as important as the 12AT7 signal tubes.

    It uses a 5Z4 or 5Y3. I switch between a Bendix 6106 (5Y3) and a Brimar 5Z4G both are superb but have a slightly different sound.

    H9

    I think I prefer the Brimar over the Bendix.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    If you are connecting your Dared pre to the pre in's, the preamp section of you Tri 88SE is out of circuit (adding nothing). The pre tubes in the Tri are then adding nothing (but don't ever remove and leave a tube socket empty).
    Thanks for the input.
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    I think I prefer the Brimar over the Bendix.
    How does the Brimar differ from the Bendix?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,112
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    Hi Heiney. If I replace the caps they should be (2) .22uf and (4) 1uf, right, not lower? Did the original Dared SL-2000A come with all (6) Auricaps? Would it be good enough just to replace just the (2) .22uf input caps? Thanks.

    Only 2 Auricaps on the input and 4 Carli caps for the output. Did you even read or see the photo's in the other thread I linked to?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,112
    edited September 2011
    I think I prefer the Brimar over the Bendix.

    I do too George, I out the Brimar back in and the tone is much better, just superb.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,112
    edited September 2011
    Tube buying/rolling will be the death of me. I've found some more that I simply must try.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    Can I use 12AU7s in lieu of the Dared SL-2000A's 12AT7 tubes?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,112
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    Can I use 12AU7s in lieu of the Dared SL-2000A's 12AT7 tubes?

    No, but you can use 5965's which are about the same gain wise.

    jessie52, there is a plethora of information here about the Dared that I or Kieko or George have written about. Try doing a search to get your learn on. I don't mind answering questions, but so far most of what you keep asking has been covered in depth.

    Regards

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,112
    edited September 2011
    Hopefully by the end of the day I'll have a new rectifier on the way. Like I said, I just had to bid, win and try these out. I'll post more after the auction ends.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    I wonder if these VISHAY-RODERSTEIN MKP-1837 Metalized Polypropylene Film Capacitor would be a good caps upgrade for the Dared SL-2000A. They practically cost nothing and their size should fit.
    http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_visrod.html
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    I think I prefer the Brimar over the Bendix.
    Does the Mullard sound close to the Brimar?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,112
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    I wonder if these VISHAY-RODERSTEIN MKP-1837 Metalized Polypropylene Film Capacitor would be a good caps upgrade for the Dared SL-2000A. They practically cost nothing and their size should fit.
    http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_visrod.html

    They are too small and I don't believe they come close to the values needed. They are more of a bypass type capacitor.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • Outfitter03Outfitter03 Posts: 563
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    I wonder if these VISHAY-RODERSTEIN MKP-1837 Metalized Polypropylene Film Capacitor would be a good caps upgrade for the Dared SL-2000A. They practically cost nothing and their size should fit.
    http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_visrod.html

    Have you listened to this with the factory capacitors? Have you rolled some of the tubes for the signal path and rectifier that H9 has suggested?

    The MKP-1837 are good bypass caps but are not rated at the 400v required for the tube preamp and as coupling caps do not match any of the values of existing caps. With capacitors being a very competitive market you generally get what you pay for and upgrading your Dared's Capacitors will cost you some change to do better than the factory installed capacitors. I don't know what your DIY background and experience is. IMHO, given the high voltages, tube amps would not be my first choice for any type of a beginning project. Speaker crossovers would be a wiser choice.
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,249
    edited September 2011
    Do you think going from the Dodd ELP to the Dared SL-2000 would be a latteral move or a step above the Dodd?? I like the fact that the Dared has a remote..
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    They are too small and I don't believe they come close to the values needed. They are more of a bypass type capacitor.

    H9
    Yes, the values are only100v. The reviews recommended them as good bypass caps.
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    Have you listened to this with the factory capacitors? Have you rolled some of the tubes for the signal path and rectifier that H9 has suggested?

    The MKP-1837 are good bypass caps but are not rated at the 400v required for the tube preamp and as coupling caps do not match any of the values of existing caps. With capacitors being a very competitive market you generally get what you pay for and upgrading your Dared's Capacitors will cost you some change to do better than the factory installed capacitors. I don't know what your DIY background and experience is. IMHO, given the high voltages, tube amps would not be my first choice for any type of a beginning project. Speaker crossovers would be a wiser choice.
    Yes they are only rated 100v. I guess with the difficulty of finding a good cap to fit the Dared, I'll stick with the stock caps which sound fantastic anyway. Perhaps, the saying "if it ain't broke, why fix it" applies here.
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