The Dared SL 2000 modification thread

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Comments

  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    If you want my honest opinion, I'd say it's has better tone and better bass., soundstage depends on the tubes. I'll disclose when the Dodd was making the rounds around here there wasn't a lot of tube rolling going on.

    The tube rectification and remote make it a good move. Wait for George to chime in because he has more total hours with the Dodd. I am biased simply because I have spent so much time with the Dared as well as exploring infinite amounts of tube combinations.

    It is a remarkable little pre-amp that really shouldn't sound as good as it does. It has a "tone" that is simply incredible.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    Yes they are only rated 100v. I guess with the difficulty of finding a good cap to fit the Dared, I'll stick with the stock caps which sound fantastic anyway. Perhaps, the saying "if it ain't broke, why fix it" applies here.

    What's wrong with Auricaps? They are fantastic and I'd recommend those, as I did in the very beginning for input coupling caps.

    Sonicaps or Multicaps for the output coupling. Nothing hard at all about finding a much better cap and they will fit in the stock openings. Well, Sonicaps are larger so measure, but Multicaps will fit.

    Simple really, you are way over thinking this.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    Scroll down to the 1.0uF 400V $10.51 ea X 4 = 42.04, these will replace the (4) output coupling caps

    http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_multicap_ppmfx.html

    Scroll down to the 0.22uF 400V $12.72 ea X 2 = 25.44, these will replace the (2) input coupling caps.

    http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_auricap.html

    a total of $67.48 plus shipping

    H9

    P.S. Be sure to measure for the (4) output caps, I haven't done that yet.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    Thanks H9,

    Not sure if I want to sell the Dodd and pick one of these up!!
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Scroll down to the 1.0uF 400V $10.51 ea X 4 = 42.04, these will replace the (4) output coupling caps

    http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_multicap_ppmfx.html

    Scroll down to the 0.22uF 400V $12.72 ea X 2 = 25.44, these will replace the (2) input coupling caps.

    http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_auricap.html

    a total of $67.48 plus shipping

    H9

    P.S. Be sure to measure for the (4) output caps, I haven't done that yet.
    The 1uf, 400v Multicap measures 17.7mm (W) x 20.3mm (H) x 22mm (L). Do you think these would fit the Dared?
    Thanks.
  • jessie52jessie52 Posts: 34
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    The 1uf, 400v Multicap measures 17.7mm (W) x 20.3mm (H) x 22mm (L). Do you think these would fit the Dared?
    Thanks.
    If I decide to just change the input caps with Auricaps, would that be significant enough?
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    It's all your fault H9 and George!!!

    I have one on the way! and I am keeping the Dodd for now!!!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    It's all your fault H9 and George!!!

    I have one on the way! and I am keeping the Dodd for now!!!

    Congrats, you'll hate me more now because you have to use a really good rectifier and roll some nice tubes.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,972
    edited September 2011
    jessie52 wrote: »
    If I decide to just change the input caps with Auricaps, would that be significant enough?

    Start with that and see how you like it--will you hear a difference over the stock input caps--I say yep,,you should.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Congrats, you'll hate me more now because you have to use a really good rectifier and roll some nice tubes.

    H9

    Give me some good ideas on a rectifier and nice tubes to roll, and I will start hunting them down!!

    Thanks!!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    Larry, I might have some for you. I have collected a lot of duplicates over the years so let me check my stash. I know for sure I have an extra Bendix 6106 rectifier. I'll get back with you and let you know as well as making some recommendations.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Larry, I might have some for you. I have collected a lot of duplicates over the years so let me check my stash. I know for sure I have an extra Bendix 6106 rectifier. I'll get back with you and let you know as well as making some recommendations.

    H9

    Thanks!! Let me know!!
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    Dared is in the house!!! I am digging it!! a big plus is a remote!!

    I won't compare it to the Dodd just yet as I would like to swap them in and out a couple of times but I feel the Dared is more Dynamic out of the box, I will leave it at that..
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    I am in just awe of this unit in stock form it is a big bang for your buck unit. I have been listening for the last three hours and I just cant move from my seat except for another drink!! :-)

    Looking forward to the tubes from Brock, I can tell this unit will cost me a couple hundred more $$$ in tubes..

    George I think I will leave the upgrading of the caps to you fine sir!!! ;-)
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    Dared is in the house!!! I am digging it!! a big plus is a remote!!

    I won't compare it to the Dodd just yet as I would like to swap them in and out a couple of times but I feel the Dared is more Dynamic out of the box, I will leave it at that..

    Being tube rectified is the main reason also it's a nice simple circuit.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,972
    edited September 2011
    I have some GE 12AT7's IIRC in mine with the Brimar,,the soundstage is immense,,the sound is fast,detailed and articulate.I prefer it over the Dodd ELP cause it's faster,and has a remote,,but the tone,,man,,the tone is just spot on.It's the first pice of gear that I can actually hear the difference a rectifier makes.I'm bringing it to PF if anyone wants to see/hear it.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    Larry if you need recommendations beyond Kieko's or more insight let me know. I am thrilled with the pre-amp and have tried A LOT of tubes. Here's my latest entry. I have spent the past two nights with this new combo and it's really blowing my skirt up. Amazing sound!

    Ok I guess it's time to have a little tube talk......................it's been awhile and I'm sure you guys missed me gushing about my latest tube purchase. I have really corraled the tube buying lately. Partly because I have just about everything represented in the 12AT7 and variant category. Still, I'm on Ebay every other day checking the listings, it's been a fantastic source for me.

    About two weeks ago I was looking at yet another rectifier for the Dared SL2000A pre-amp since it responds so well to rectifier changes, and I come across a seller in Greece who had NOS Tungsram 5Z4G military large envelope rectifiers (sold in pairs). I have never seen them before and the plate structure is unique. After some research these are old, as in WWII radar equipment old, and for a very short time Tungsram had a division in Tottenham England, these are from Tottenham rather than Hungary, where 90% of Tungsram tubes originate.

    I recieved the pair Monday, expertly packed from Greece. They are pristine, NOS, wrapped in the cardboard inserts from what I assume is from a bulk pack carton. Black base, parallel black ladder type plates, bottom rectangle getter. These are simply superb and slightly edge out the Military Brimar 5Z4G rectifier I am so fond of. Talk about tone, presence and mellow airy highs and excellent detail retrival. I paid $80US for a pair, including shipping, which was about $11. It's amazing how a rectifer can completely change the character of this pre-amp.

    Awhile ago I purchased 2/pr NOS GE 6829 tubes from different sellers. Both pairs are from 1959 and 3-mica, one pair is the 5 Star designation the other is "JG" designation. Both are rugged industrial tubes very similar or identical to the 6414/E180CC/7062 type. They have long plates. Unfortunately both pairs were severly microphonic which makes no sense since they are 3 mica and built to be rugged. The 5 Star pair I was able to use 2 pairs of dampers to keep them from going microphonic.

    WOWZA, these tubes are amazing, BIG, HUGE 3D soundstage, deep bass and the highs are detailed, mellow and sparkly. Lots of presence and ambient information as well as being fairly quick tubes. This is fairly uncommon tube that is only been recently discovered by audiophiles. I am thrilled with the 6829 and Tungsram rectifier. Listening to Jazz at the Pawnshop, it's like I'm in the front row. I was playing some other live stuff last night and the audience banter had me looking around my room for the people talking to tell them to shut up!!:redface:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    Keiko wrote: »
    Does it look like this, Brock? In the words of george daniel, very innaresting.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5Z4G-TUNGSRAM-RECTIFIER-TUBE-NOS-MADE-ENGLAND-/380367314140

    That's the one, a different seller, but he looks to have great feedback. I bought from a guy in Greece and the transaction couldn't have gone smoother. He also listed another pair, but that auction ended a couple days ago. Maybe he has more? But I'd grab one from this guy. As I said I've never seen one FS on Ebay (or anywhere else) before these popped up.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited September 2011
    I'm done buying tubes for the most part, but I still check the usual sources and I couldn't pass this rectifier up. It's a really sweet sounding piece and as usual on the rare side, atleast here in the states.

    H9

    P.s. Hmmmmmmm.....it looks like the word "rectifier" is in here twice, but when I go to edit one of the duplicate words out, it only shows one instance of the word "rectifier". Weird!
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,972
    edited September 2011
    Keiko wrote: »
    Does it look like this, Brock? In the words of george daniel, very innaresting.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/5Z4G-TUNGSRAM-RECTIFIER-TUBE-NOS-MADE-ENGLAND-/380367314140

    dats de one mon
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,972
    edited September 2011
    The little Dared was a showstopper,,,coupled with a Quicksilver GLA tube amp and a pair of 1C's--huge soundstage and SDA effect--come to think of it,,I did not have any Carver gear.:redface:
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Being tube rectified is the main reason also it's a nice simple circuit.

    H9

    Thanks Brock!!!! Tubes are here now I have to wait till I get home and roll'em in!!!!
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    Bummer!! I have a Micophonic sound coming through my speakers with these tubes even when I touch my volume knob you can hear my fingers touching the knob and thats with the volume all the way down..
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,972
    edited September 2011
    happened to me too^^^^^^
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,100
    edited September 2011
    Thanks Mike, I'm waiting to hear back from Brock but I am looking forward to getting the TFKN's next week..
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited October 2011
    Larry I'll be in touch later today, but the 5965's have a tendency to be microphonic because of the long plates. Do they ring when they are playing or only when you touch the volume of chassis. Dampers will tame that, but we can discuss how you want to proceed. I guess I really didn't notice those tend to be microphonic as I'm used to the long plate tubes have a slight tendency to ring. However they never ring while playing and I almost always use dampers on the long plate tubes.

    I can give you a refund, or I might have another spare pair of nice sounding regular (non-long plate) tubes I can send you. You can get some dampers and try those and if it still doesn't work then I can still refund of exchange.

    Up to you.

    Have you played them at all? Or do they ring just sitting there?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,972
    edited October 2011
    I had the same issue,, I tried tube dampers and also isolated the pre with some success.I still think that the Syl long BP's sound very good though.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited October 2011
    I had the same issue,, I tried tube dampers and also isolated the pre with some success.I still think that the Syl long BP's sound very good though.

    I have the issue with all the 5965's to one degree or another, but they don't ring when playing. I use dampers and it helps quite a bit. If the 5965's I have didn't sound so sweet I wouldn't bother trying to damp them. The 6829's that I have been using lately need two pairs of dampers, but damn do they sound good. I have noticed no ill effects when listening to music, loud music with lots of bass. If I touch the vol control I can hear it, but I use the remote and I rarely mess with the volume too much anyway.

    Larry, if they aren't ringing while playing give them a listen for awhile and I guess be gentle when moving the vol control manually. If you can listen to them without them ringing it will atleast give you the flavor of that particular tube. I'll still work with you for whatever you want to do, but listen to them as they are if you can. They are pretty sweet sounding tubes.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • george danielgeorge daniel Posts: 11,972
    edited October 2011
    I meant the 5965's-- for the price of admission,they are hard to beat.I sent Steve a pair for his C-J ,,so far I think he's liking them pretty well.Brock,,thanks for the link to that seller--I'm gonna get another pair from him,,they are that good.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,025
    edited October 2011
    I meant the 5965's-- for the price of admission,they are hard to beat.I sent Steve a pair for his C-J ,,so far I think he's liking them pretty well.Brock,,thanks for the link to that seller--I'm gonna get another pair from him,,they are that good.

    You are welcome, George. Damn, I wish I was going to PF this year. We could have sooooo much fun talking a bit about tubes face to face. I was thinking the same thing, you know me I like to have a "back-up" of my favorite tubes, for the $$$ they are really hard to beat.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
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