Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited October 2009
    anhchungdoan wrote: »
    Here is the name that you wanted from the AVS forum, I gave it up the search. You do it yourself: Penngray ( twice threatened physical fight in Florida to other posters in two different posts for disagreeing with him) . I have better thing to do in line than sitting here shooting the bull. Have a good life!

    Post #2001 a Spacey Club Polk Oddity :D
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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    jimmydep wrote: »
    Gentlemen, why don't you take your disagreement back to the AVS forum, and lets keep this thread on topic........Please.

    That being said....

    I see some cable's implement many thinner strand's in their product whereas some use less but thicker strand's, why?
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    That being said....

    I see some cable's implement many thinner strand's in their product whereas some use less but thicker strand's, why?

    Skin effect.
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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    phuz wrote: »
    Skin effect.

    Ok thank's:)

    And which is better for what? I see some cable's costing $15+ per foot with both the many thin strand's and other's (also priced at $15+ per foot) with less strand's but thicker gauge :confused:

    I also see some cable's that implement both in the same cable! They have many small gauge conductor's only on the positive lead and less but thicker gauge on the negative lead. Sorry for all the Q's just trying to get my around all these different type's of cable's :o

    Cheer's!
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,668
    edited October 2009
    If you're still pricing cable by the foot it isn't going to matter what that cable is made out of.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    If you're still pricing cable by the foot it isn't going to matter what that cable is made out of.

    I was merely adding a price per foot as a refference, care to add something usefull to the thread?
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,668
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    I was merely adding a price per foot as a refference, care to add something usefull to the thread?

    I've been making useful posts on this forum for the last 7 years. When are you going to start?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,945
    edited October 2009
    Actually, what he said was useful. Pay attention.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,668
    edited October 2009
    You know Tom, I was going to say something about that, but figured that since it already buzzed the tower once that a second time wasn't worth the effort.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    Sorry i sounded like a dick but i'm looking for a more "in depth" answer than a one liner....

    :o
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited October 2009
    IF you want some solid advice . . . go buy some MIT cables. They are one of the single most effective and notably beneficial upgrades I have ever made. They are truly the same as making a significant preamp, amp or speaker upgrade. F1Nut makes a valid point. To a large degree, cables sold by the roll (foot) are very similar sounding and do not offer dramatic increases in performance.
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  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    Why do i need a set of $500 Mit's? In most case's i/you/we can buy the SAME cable as what is used in "premade" set's for cheaper and finish them of ourselve's :o

    It's not hard to find termination's, cable sleeveing, heat shrink, quality solder, cable pant's etc....

    like i said i'm just trying to understand all of this so i can make an informed purchase and get the best "bang" for my buck. That's why i refferenced price by the foot :o

    TBH ihave a VERY limited income but i do like to have the best of what i can get....
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    Why do i need a set of $500 Mit's? In most case's i/you/we can buy the SAME cable as what is used in "premade" set's for cheaper and finish them of ourselve's :o

    It's not hard to find termination's, cable sleeveing, heat shrink, quality solder, cable pant's etc....

    like i said i'm just trying to understand all of this so i can make an informed purchase and get the best "bang" for my buck. That's why i refferenced price by the foot :o

    TBH ihave a VERY limited income but i do like to have the best of what i can get....

    First, you don't need MITs to listen to music, but you did say you want the best. Well MIT is close to what some consider to be the best.

    Two, MIT is not just heatshrink and wire. Those boxes and the electronics therein are more than you could ever make in your garage workshop, and they do a lot to improve the sound.

    Third, Bruce Brisson has a DIY homepage for making your own MIT cables, but they are not the best of what MIT has to offer. http://www.diyaudiocable.com/.

    Fourth, if you are really serious about this hobby, the only way to really measure results is by hearing the product your self. And remember: "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be measured." - Albert Einstein.
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    Sorry i sounded like a dick but i'm looking for a more "in depth" answer than a one liner....

    :o

    You should probably put forth your best effort to try different things on your own and come to your own conclusions. Nobody here can tell you what cables will be better or sound better to you.

    Why don't you try some of the different cables that you're speaking of, and report back with your findings so we can all learn from your experiences.

    You can find Kimber on the cheap if you look in the right places. I'm a fan of Kimber, and I also have very positive but limited experience with MIT. I too would like to put MIT cables in one of my systems some day, but am not in a position to do so right now. So there you have it. Go to your local hi-fi shops and talk to the guys there. Many places will let you take cables home to try before you buy. Or try Signal Cable. I think Frank will let you try some before you buy as well. Signal Cable is probably one of the best budget bang for the buck wires out there. Compare them all to some home depot lamp chord. Maybe you'll notice a difference, maybe you won't.
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  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited October 2009
    phuz wrote: »
    Or try Signal Cable. I think Frank will let you try some before you buy as well. Signal Cable is probably one of the best budget bang for the buck wires out there. Compare them all to some home depot lamp chord. Maybe you'll notice a difference, maybe you won't.

    +1 regarding Signal Cable
    HT
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    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited October 2009
    oops, edited
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,545
    edited October 2009
    ...and in closing, there's no such thing as a "spearker" cable.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • speakergeek
    speakergeek Posts: 555
    edited October 2009
    What the heck is spearker cable????
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,065
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    You know Tom, I was going to say something about that, but figured that since it already buzzed the tower once that a second time wasn't worth the effort.

    Stop making me spit coffee at the screen.....jeez man.:D You are right though,once around for the slow folks,after that,the hell with it.
    HT SYSTEM-
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    Cables-
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    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited October 2009
    speakergeek wrote: »
    What the heck is spearker cable????

    Same difference as "spearkergeek" :D
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited October 2009
    http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2009/breakthrough_approach_to_audio_measurement/
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited October 2009
    Face wrote: »
    http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2009/breakthrough_approach_to_audio_measurement/

    Who'd a thunk we weren't just justifying our expenditures?
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
    Squeezebox Touch
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    B&W 801's
    Transparent IC's
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 51,668
    edited October 2009
    Face wrote: »
    http://blog.stereophile.com/rmaf2009/breakthrough_approach_to_audio_measurement/

    Gotta love the comments at the end of the article. Naysayers will be naysayers to the grave. :rolleyes:
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    So I see the Signal Cable offers 30 day in home trials. You just have to worry about the shipping. Cool.

    From the Signal Cable website on their 'Analog Two' HT RCA snake cable: this is a reference quality interconnect

    I believe AQ unfortunately charges a 20% restock fee. I don't know about KK or MIT.

    With a decent amount of ID speaker companies allowing for in home trials I am not sure why with something that isn't as labor intensive or bulky to ship as cables isn't offered. I would think it would be a way to increase sales.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,806
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Gotta love the comments at the end of the article. Naysayers will be naysayers to the grave. :rolleyes:


    Gotta love the way "believers" will accept anything the manufacturer's claim without question. :rolleyes:
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  • jinjuku
    jinjuku Posts: 1,523
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Gotta love the comments at the end of the article. Naysayers will be naysayers to the grave. :rolleyes:

    As far as their research: For it to have any scientific merit it has to be reproducible. That is the gist of what some of the comments are getting at. I would simply wait for the peer review process to finish.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Gotta love the comments at the end of the article. :rolleyes:

    I do love them. I really do.

    "On the other hand, if you want to insult us "wallpluggers" then expect to be mocked since you are apparently unable to understand basic science." Posted Tue Oct 6, 2009, 8:59 AM — By Tim L

    I did not see in this case, and never have seen, an example of a cable enthusiast insulting or mocking someone only because they chose not to use a higher performance power cord.

    "It really irritates me when I see a five or six figure system sitting in a room with glass walls and marble floors. Inevitably these are the systems with the most expensive cables and other sorts of "tweaks"". Posted Tue Oct 6, 2009, 12:05 PM — By Tim McGeary

    I often see comments like this. I don't see any rational reason for anyone to get "irritated" by the wall and floor finishes someone else chooses for their listening room. Some people just like a more "lively" room. It's their house.:)

    By the way, I have been working on some power infrastructure upgrades for my home theater system. The discontinued xStream Statement SC and xStream Premier SC power cords are being "dumped" at xStreamly attractive prices.

    I just picked up nine 2 meter Statement SC power cords at $125 each (+$10 each for shipping) for the components in my HT system. Regular retail was $629. I am replacing all of the Signal Cable MagicPower cords.

    More later.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,502
    edited October 2009
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Gotta love the way "believers" will accept anything the manufacturer's claim without question. :rolleyes:

    Hi William,

    We've never "met" before in the forums I guess, but from what I've read above, it seems you've been at it a long time and don't give much credence to the effectiveness of expensive wire.

    I'm sure some do, but I don't give a lot of weight to published specs.

    I do listen to music between 6 and 10 hours a day, 6 and sometimes 7 days a week sitting dead center in the "SDA sweetspot" of a fairly decent system.

    I've personally found by listening, that various interconnects and speaker cables make a huge difference in the quality of sound coming out of my speakers. I've also found, almost to a 100% correlation, that the higher priced wires sound better.

    Respectfully,
    Greg
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited October 2009
    DarqueKnight wrote: »

    "It really irritates me when I see a five or six figure system sitting in a room with glass walls and marble floors. Inevitably these are the systems with the most expensive cables and other sorts of "tweaks"". Posted Tue Oct 6, 2009, 12:05 PM — By Tim McGeary

    I often see comments like this. I don't see any rational reason for anyone to get "irritated" by the wall and floor finishes someone else chooses for their listening room. Some people just like a more "lively" room. It's their house.:)

    I find criticisms such as the one described here are brought by people who may not be able to afford nicer gear, and feel someone who can afford nice gear and furthermore has the audacity to put it in a nice house . . . well, that person is a real snobby **** in their book.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,806
    edited October 2009
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    I've personally found by listening, that various interconnects and speaker cables make a huge difference in the quality of sound coming out of my speakers. I've also found, almost to a 100% correlation, that the higher priced wires sound better.

    Respectfully,
    Greg

    I used to think the same thing. Then I did an honest blind listening test. Suddenly those "huge" differences disappeared, not just for me, but for all the other participants as well.

    For some reason, we could all hear the "huge" differences when we knew which cables were being used, go figure.
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