Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

1…5657596162…73

Comments

  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    bumps.jpg

    finally some GOOD info getting into the thread! :D

    yummeh yummeh ta ta's :)
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited October 2009
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    Quantum mechanics explains the sub-atomic that concerns nuclear physics. Yes is it a foundation, but we don't really notice quantum effects until we get into the sub-atomic world. This doesn't apply to audio measurements.

    This is true. You don't need quantum mechanics to explain the electrical characteristics of audio frequencies. Just as you don't need quantum mechanics to explain a cars HP or things falling off buildings.

    I know this is an over simplifiaction, but you do need quantum mechanics to explain mother nature when things get very small, sub-atomic, or when things move close to the speed of light.

    Almost everything we encounter in everyday life doesn't need quantum mechanics to explain or predict it's behaiver.

    Except maybe this forum. And that is a joke.

    Please forgive my spelling.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sTiLlLeArNiNg
    sTiLlLeArNiNg Posts: 805
    edited October 2009
    IMO in one way or another physic's applies to everything in life, even though i don' understand most of it i know it's there lol

    I could not see myself scavenging cat5 cable and spending hour's upon hour's stripping + braiding to make a set of cable's. I'd much rather buy a decent 4 conductor wire and go from there. :o

    One question that's been floating around my head for some time is: is it really better to not use a connector on the end's of a speaker wire? If yes would it be feasible to "tin" the end's with some lead free 4% silver solder?

    Right now i have some Rocketfish cable that was included with my speaker purchase from Futuresh1t and i run bare wire on both end's but i'd like to get better cable's and i am hesitant to "terminate" the end's as 1) it add's cost and 2) can possibly add resistance?

    Thought's?
    Media Room 7.1
    Sharp lc37d64u | Sanus vmsab-03 | Sonax ZX8680 | Yamaha htr-6290b | Emotiva xpa1 x 2 & xpa5 | RTiA 9 & 7 | CSiA 6 | FXiA 6 | Sanus NF30B-03 | Velodyne dls-3750r | Dual 505-3 m97xe | Monster avs2000/hts5100

    HTPC
    Intel e5300 | Asus p5q DLX | LG ch08 BD | OCZ 4g reaper2 | WD 1TB | Sapphire 4890 VaporX 1g | Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 | OCZ modXtreme 700w | Antec Fusion remote MAX

    A fool and his money are easily parted
    I don't drink Koolaid

    Need some cable's? Just ask :)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Lowell_M
    Lowell_M Posts: 1,660
    edited October 2009
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    Quantum mechanics explains the sub-atomic that concerns nuclear physics. Yes is it a foundation, but we don't really notice quantum effects until we get into the sub-atomic world. This doesn't apply to audio measurements.

    Yes... thank you for the clarification (my B.S. is in Physics). I think you may have taken my comment a little too seriously.

    Point is... Measuring what is actually meaningful in the human listening experience related to how a conductor between an amp and a speaker carries the signal may not be possible and would be very difficult to prove if it were possible. There is far more going on than a 3 variable equation... or even a simple wave mechanics problem.
    HT
    RTi70 mains
    CSi30 center
    RTi28 Rears
    Velodyne CHT-12
    H/K AVR-247
    ADCOM GFA-7000
    Samsung PN58B860
    Playstation 3
    2-Channel
    Polk Audio LSi15's
    Rotel RCD-1072
    Nakamichi CA-5 Pre
    ADCOM GFA-555
    Signal Cable Analog II IC's
    Signal Ultra Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2009
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    That is true. But I believe he was referring to the quantum mechanics world of the physicist and not the everyday real world of you and I.

    Einstein was always impressed that many of his theories could be confirmed by measurement. The bending of light by the gravitational pull of the sun is one example.

    Upon re-reading it, I guess my Einstein quote could be taken either way.

    My point always is, you need to LISTEN for yourself as different people and different systems have differing needs.

    I'm personally convinced many high-priced wires transmit harmonics to the drivers that are beyond the human hearing spectrum, but contribute positively to the overall listening experience.

    In that sense the performance can be quantitatively measured by a scientist electronically, and argued to be better based on those numbers, and priced accordingly. Qualitatively, various people will or won't hear those differences.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    If yes would it be feasible to "tin" the end's with some lead free 4% silver solder?

    can possibly add resistance?

    Thought's?

    By "tin" I assume you mean solder the ends of the speaker wire.

    I have found that you will get a potentally lower resistance connection soldering the endings of the speaker wire because the solder is soft and will conform to the speaker connection when screwed down better than plain wire. The increased contact area will slightly lower the contact resistance. This lower contact resistance may not be audable however. However, the wire is much easier to get into the hole in the speaker terminal after it is soldered.

    Hope my spelling didn't offend you.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bikezappa
    bikezappa Posts: 2,463
    edited October 2009
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    .

    I'm personally convinced many high-priced wires transmit harmonics to the drivers that are beyond the human hearing spectrum, but contribute positively to the overall listening experience.

    QUOTE]

    If the transmitted harmonics are beyond the hearing spectrum how can they contribute in any way to the listening experience?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2009
    bikezappa wrote: »
    . . If the transmitted harmonics are beyond the hearing spectrum how can they contribute in any way to the listening experience?

    Here are a couple of questions I would ask:

    1) Are ears the only receptors on/in a human body capable of detecting the presence of varying sound waves (sound pressure levels) around it?

    2) Are varying sound waves (sound pressure levels) the only component of sound/music?

    If you really want to explore, here's a start

    - http://www.sound-thinking.org/index.php?showtopic=2630
    - http://www.sound-thinking.org/index.php?showtopic=3666
    - http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/loudspeaker_as_musical_instrument
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    mantis wrote: »
    It's funny and I feel bad for some but you can only show them the path , you can't walk it for them.

    I feel sorry for anyone stupid enough to follow your path.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited October 2009
    inspiredsports wrote: »
    I'm personally convinced many high-priced wires transmit harmonics to the drivers that are beyond the human hearing spectrum, but contribute positively to the overall listening experience.

    In that sense the performance can be quantitatively measured by a scientist electronically, and argued to be better based on those numbers, and priced accordingly. Qualitatively, various people will or won't hear those differences.

    Excellent thought!
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    I feel sorry for anyone stupid enough to follow your path.

    My path is that bad? Yours is so much better? enlighten me
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    I'm not the one proclaiming that I have a path to follow.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited October 2009
    mantis wrote: »
    It happens every single day. Guys walk around looking for the sound they want in there system and are not getting it due to the poor quality of speakers they own. Poor placement. Poor calibration. Poor wire management. I could go on and on here. And it's not like they have poor quality speakers , it's they are asking more out of them then they aare capable of. There are sonic limits to all speakers and trying to get high end sound of a pair of RT series speakers is just not going to happen no matter what MIT wire you have or Sunfire amp you power them with. Lsi's have there limits although they benefit from higher end amps and other gear. You get more out of them because they offer more. It's simple really.

    I have been watching people on this forum make mistake after mistake trying to get to a level of sonic perfection with so so speakers. Buying amps and separates , high end wire and all kinds of crazy things when the problem lays elsewhere.

    I'm not hating on anyone's gear , I'm just point out that maybe the better sound you are looking for doesn't rest in MIT wires or that beautiful Sunfire monster amp. Maybe if you have a higher quality speaker and a good placement , you just might find what your ears are telling you to get. It's funny and I feel bad for some but you can only show them the path , you can't walk it for them.

    End Rant. Carry on.

    In my case, its about the money....I squeeze all I can out of what I have.
    Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
    Mirage PS-12
    LG BDP-550
    Motorola HD FIOS DVR
    Panasonic 42" Plasma
    XBOX 360[/SIZE]

    Office stuff

    Allied 395 receiver
    Pioneer CDP PD-M430
    RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]

    Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    sTiLlLeArNiNg wrote: »
    finally some GOOD info getting into the thread! :D

    yummeh yummeh ta ta's :)

    Nice. What's a wonderful view to see. Who needs 1080p !
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    Knucklehead wrote: »
    In my case, its about the money....I squeeze all I can out of what I have.

    Please enlighten me not in term of fancy laws of physics and electronics, I am an old caveman but really love hi-end audio. I own a pair of Martin Logan Sl3, should I drive them with a Carver amps or a Krell amps ? Or amp is just an amp that function is only to amplify the input signal? I really like to hear from your actual experiment not some spec or data print out. Sincerely, Andrew Doan.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited October 2009
    Wtf?
    Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
    Mirage PS-12
    LG BDP-550
    Motorola HD FIOS DVR
    Panasonic 42" Plasma
    XBOX 360[/SIZE]

    Office stuff

    Allied 395 receiver
    Pioneer CDP PD-M430
    RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]

    Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    Knucklehead wrote: »
    Wtf?

    WTF? Not too nice . My fault. Must be another Knucklehead from AVS forum.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited October 2009
    never visited the "other" forum
    Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
    Mirage PS-12
    LG BDP-550
    Motorola HD FIOS DVR
    Panasonic 42" Plasma
    XBOX 360[/SIZE]

    Office stuff

    Allied 395 receiver
    Pioneer CDP PD-M430
    RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]

    Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    Knucklehead wrote: »
    never visited the "other" forum

    Cheer brother! I thought I had him this time without a bunch of vultures with big talk but no action. My apology.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Knucklehead
    Knucklehead Posts: 3,602
    edited October 2009
    No problem...thats kinda funny...
    Polk Audio Surround Bar 360
    Mirage PS-12
    LG BDP-550
    Motorola HD FIOS DVR
    Panasonic 42" Plasma
    XBOX 360[/SIZE]

    Office stuff

    Allied 395 receiver
    Pioneer CDP PD-M430
    RT8t's & Wharfedale Diamond II's[/SIZE]

    Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music. ~Ronald Reagan
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    I'm not the one proclaiming that I have a path to follow.

    I thought so.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • everpress
    everpress Posts: 862
    edited October 2009
    anhchungdoan wrote: »
    Cheer brother! I thought I had him this time without a bunch of vultures with big talk but no action. My apology.

    The internet is an awesome place.

    I hope you find your prey and troll him good, mate.

    ? Harmon Kardon AVR 55 (dead; replacing with Onkyo TX NR-616)
    ? Polk RTA 11TL's (FR and FL)
    ? Polk TSi200's (RR and RL)
    ? Polk CS10 (Center)
    ? Polk PSW-350
    ? Grado SR-60i Headphones
    ? Fii0 E5 headphone amp
    ? iPod touch (8 gig)
    ? iPod Classic (80 gig)
    ? Mac Mini (as media server)
    ? xbox 360
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    Allright for those who believe there should not be any difference sounding among ICs, I would take a challenge that I would be able to identify correctly the Kimber PBJ and the Kimber Hero with the Bryston 4bsst/ BP26 or the Krell 400xi. If those who want more I would throw in also the Silverstreak. I would do it for a prize not an el cheapo bs door prize. I am tired to read all the Laws of physics and electronics and the conclusion that there is zero diffrences between or among 1 meter cables. I have been thru all the arguemental BS with a bunch of more intelligent than idiots at the AVS forum. I have been riduculed, mocked, cursed at...you named it BUT when I was about to prove to them that I was not "wrong" by identifying the Kimber Kables with a GOOD PRICE for my time and my 20 years of toying with cables, they refused ot backed out. So, here we go again, if someone who likes to read spec and data testing, I am willing to make a challenge/ bet that there are differences among the PBJ, Hero, Silver Streak and I can identify them. Not a free freak show so no free demonstration.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited October 2009
    I remember that challenge. You required that they purchase about $10,000 worth of new sealed in box equipment for the comparison, and travel to Las Vegas. You would buy the cables. If you won, you would get to keep all the equipment, if you lost you would pay your own expenses. You offerred absolutely nothing to them if you lost. You also never said anything about any type of test protocol at all, just that it would all be done on your terms, and by your rules. Very fair of you.

    What a deal, wonder why no one took you up on it?:rolleyes:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    mantis wrote: »
    I thought so.

    Once again Dan, you're making no sense.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    Not to worry anhchungdoan, William is one of a very few cable naysayers that we have here. Most of us know the truth.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited October 2009
    This message is hidden because xcapri79 is on your Dl(K List.

    Life is good!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited October 2009
    F1nut wrote: »
    Not to worry anhchungdoan, William is one of a very few cable naysayers that we have here. Most of us know the truth.

    My post said nothing about cables, just his claim that AVS members backed out of a challenge, which is just a lie.

    Would you like to bet on a football game? Any game, I don't care. If I win, you pay me $10,000, if you win, I'll give you nothing. What do you say?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • anhchungdoan
    anhchungdoan Posts: 760
    edited October 2009
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    I remember that challenge. You required that they purchase about $10,000 worth of new sealed in box equipment for the comparison, and travel to Las Vegas. You would buy the cables. If you won, you would get to keep all the equipment, if you lost you would pay your own expenses. You offerred absolutely nothing to them if you lost. You also never said anything about any type of test protocol at all, just that it would all be done on your terms, and by your rules. Very fair of you.

    What a deal, wonder why no one took you up on it?:rolleyes:

    Oh, Welcome. What's the chance to win the lottery, Mr. Scientist? 120 miilion to 1 , perharps? These Scientist claims there is ZERO to none defferences within 1 meter cable pair? So, by my caveman's calculation my chance of winning by these "Scientists" is....you fill win a blank, mr. ? When I have ZERO chance to win by their scientific measurement and data, why they are affraid to loose 10K ? Is it fair that a cave who will have ZERO chance to identify the three cables asking for 10K ? When a person who makes a bet has Zero chance to win, even an idiot will take a bet ? I did not take any advance stastistic classes with my BBA when I was a youngster, but I know the answer.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,501
    edited October 2009
    anhchungdoan wrote: »

    All right for those who believe there should not be any difference sounding among ICs, I would take a challenge that I would be able to identify correctly the Kimber PBJ and the Kimber Hero with the Bryston 4bsst/ BP26 or the Krell 400xi. If those who want more I would throw in also the Silverstreak.

    I would do it for a prize not an el cheapo bs door prize.

    I am tired to read all the Laws of physics and electronics and the conclusion that there is zero diffrences between or among 1 meter cables. I have been thru all the arguemental BS with a bunch of more intelligent than idiots at the AVS forum.

    I have been riduculed, mocked, cursed at...you named it BUT when I was about to prove to them that I was not "wrong" by identifying the Kimber Kables with a GOOD PRICE for my time and my 20 years of toying with cables, they refused ot backed out.

    So, here we go again, if someone who likes to read spec and data testing, I am willing to make a challenge/ bet that there are differences among the PBJ, Hero, Silver Streak and I can identify them.

    Not a free freak show so no free demonstration.

    First, I'm not sure why you sound so defensive. This is basically friendly territory as most here have open minds.

    Second, I took the liberty of adding paragraph & phrase breaks in my quote to aid in making your post legible.
    VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
    TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
    Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
    Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
    MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
    Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
    PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
    Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
    NAD SS rigs w/mods
    GIK panels
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
This discussion has been closed.