Emotiva CD player a big hit so far
Comments
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NICE!
Best post I've seen in a long time..
NickI'm still having some trouble understanding why these Emotiva threads seem destined to descend into hopeless chaos and anarchy, including senseless "attack tags".
It seems that Emotiva supporters think that those with more expensive gear inevitably want to bash Emotiva to justify their extravagant expenditures. It also seems to me that Emotiva supporters just cannot fathom the possibility that any criticism of Emotiva might be true. So, you end up with this:
- Emotiva supporters believe all those that buy more expensive gear are blind/lying and/or just stupid.
- Non-Emotiva supporters believe that Emotiva owners are blind/uneducated and/or just stupid.
A lot of topics get discussed here, and the discussion generally goes in all directions. There is usually a consensus of some description at some point, on almost every topic, with varying degrees of support, depending on priorities and personal preferences. Emotiva seems to totally escape this rule.
I have opinions on Emotiva, but I just give up on sharing them publicly any more. For this reason alone, I see no point in donating $25 to the Emotiva CDP experiment, since any negative results will be seized upon as biased, elitist and false, based on a preconceived negative opinion, or worse (intentional dishonesty). The funny thing is that my current receiver actually cost less than my Emotiva gear, so I am no elitist, even if I may have fairly demanding preferences in some areas.
Statements such as this are meaningless IMO:
How did it "beat them out", exactly?
As for this "review":
Although I am sure the reviewer believes that he has done his best to provide a useful opinion, it seems to be some sort of "right of passage" with Emotiva to find some piece of expensive gear that could not defeat the equivalent Emotiva unit, so why is it that some Emotiva owners expect new owners to find their Emotiva gear better than other equipment that cost four times as much, but that I am not entitled to find that my receivers have been able to equal, and even surpass the Emotiva gear I tried, that also cost more than what I currently use? Why is the comparison of more expensive and cheaper gear only valid when it favors Emotiva?
There are several CP members whose opinions I very much respect that own and like Emotiva gear. There are several others that have expressed an interest in owning this CDP, the upcoming pre/pro, or some of their amplifiers. There are even others that recommend Emotiva units without ever having heard one, so why is it that 90% of Emotiva supporters seem to:
(A) Want to brand Club Polk as a band of Emotiva haters and elitists;
(B) Keep coming back to attack any criticism of Emotiva, making valid, in depth discussion of pros and cons, likes and dislikes, an impossibility?
All this does is make a majority of Emotiva owners seem like a band of Honda Accord V6 drivers arguing that their car is a better performance vehicle, in almost every way, than an equivalent BMW or Mercedes ... with just about as much credibility.
This does nothing to further the goals of Emotiva or Club Polk IMO ... nor any of us enthusiasts of the audio hobby. -
I'm still having some trouble understanding why these Emotiva threads seem destined to descend into hopeless chaos and anarchy, including senseless "attack tags".
It seems that Emotiva supporters think that those with more expensive gear inevitably want to bash Emotiva to justify their extravagant expenditures. It also seems to me that Emotiva supporters just cannot fathom the possibility that any criticism of Emotiva might be true. So, you end up with this:
- Emotiva supporters believe all those that buy more expensive gear are blind/lying and/or just stupid.
- Non-Emotiva supporters believe that Emotiva owners are blind/uneducated and/or just stupid.
A lot of topics get discussed here, and the discussion generally goes in all directions. There is usually a consensus of some description at some point, on almost every topic, with varying degrees of support, depending on priorities and personal preferences. Emotiva seems to totally escape this rule.
I have opinions on Emotiva, but I just give up on sharing them publicly any more. For this reason alone, I see no point in donating $25 to the Emotiva CDP experiment, since any negative results will be seized upon as biased, elitist and false, based on a preconceived negative opinion, or worse (intentional dishonesty). The funny thing is that my current receiver actually cost less than my Emotiva gear, so I am no elitist, even if I may have fairly demanding preferences in some areas.
Statements such as this are meaningless IMO:
How did it "beat them out", exactly?
As for this "review":
Although I am sure the reviewer believes that he has done his best to provide a useful opinion, it seems to be some sort of "right of passage" with Emotiva to find some piece of expensive gear that could not defeat the equivalent Emotiva unit, so why is it that some Emotiva owners expect new owners to find their Emotiva gear better than other equipment that cost four times as much, but that I am not entitled to find that my receivers have been able to equal, and even surpass the Emotiva gear I tried, that also cost more than what I currently use? Why is the comparison of more expensive and cheaper gear only valid when it favors Emotiva?
There are several CP members whose opinions I very much respect that own and like Emotiva gear. There are several others that have expressed an interest in owning this CDP, the upcoming pre/pro, or some of their amplifiers. There are even others that recommend Emotiva units without ever having heard one, so why is it that 90% of Emotiva supporters seem to:
(A) Want to brand Club Polk as a band of Emotiva haters and elitists;
(B) Keep coming back to attack any criticism of Emotiva, making valid, in depth discussion of pros and cons, likes and dislikes, an impossibility?
All this does is make a majority of Emotiva owners seem like a band of Honda Accord V6 drivers arguing that their car is a better performance vehicle, in almost every way, than an equivalent BMW or Mercedes ... with just about as much credibility.
This does nothing to further the goals of Emotiva or Club Polk IMO ... nor any of us enthusiasts of the audio hobby.
Great post Kex,
As an owner of many emotiva products presently and in the past, i do not find it impossible for someone to not like emotiva. One of my good friends had emotiva equipment and he moved to some parasound gear, and i said good for him. It has nothing to do with people finding emotiva good or bad for their setup. It has to do with the usual people that seem to go out of their way to stick it to emotiva for no reason other than they could not stand the fact that there used to be so many threads about them. For me personally i find that just incredibly stupid and i WILL argue against that. I do that for any piece of gear that that people seem to senselessly bash. Yes senselessly bash, meaning they appear to have no REAL reason to rag on the product other than they personally don't like it. I recently argued in favor of JL audio sub that people were because they feel that any DIY subwoofer would destroy it... Its not my personal goal to make people feel emotiva is the best around. I don't even think that. I just find senseless jabs to be well...senseless. As long as good conversation continues about the products whether they be praise or criticism i do not care, as long as its fair.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
now, that's asking for too much if you ask me....
honestly read the tags and think how old they are....my son is 2 months old and I think my son is more mature than them....Video: LG 55LN5100/Samsung LNT4065F
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bigred7078 wrote: »Great post Kex,
As an owner of many emotiva products presently and in the past, i do not find it impossible for someone to not like emotiva. One of my good friends had emotiva equipment and he moved to some parasound gear, and i said good for him. It has nothing to do with people finding emotiva good or bad for their setup. It has to do with the usual people that seem to go out of their way to stick it to emotiva for no reason other than they could not stand the fact that there used to be so many threads about them. For me personally i find that just incredibly stupid and i WILL argue against that. I do that for any piece of gear that that people seem to senselessly bash. Yes senselessly bash, meaning they appear to have no REAL reason to rag on the product other than they personally don't like it. I recently argued in favor of JL audio sub that people were because they feel that any DIY subwoofer would destroy it... Its not my personal goal to make people feel emotiva is the best around. I don't even think that. I just find senseless jabs to be well...senseless. As long as good conversation continues about the products whether they be praise or criticism i do not care, as long as its fair.
What ohter gear have you stood up for that someone has bashed?
Just Curious, -
Aren't you getting confused with your collection of "artifacts" from Victoria's Secrets?!
Damn...you got me. I've got pics. PM me if you're interested.;):pbigred7078 wrote: »It has nothing to do with people finding emotiva good or bad for their setup. It has to do with the usual people that seem to go out of their way to stick it to emotiva for no reason other than they could not stand the fact that there used to be so many threads about them. For me personally i find that just incredibly stupid and i WILL argue against that. I do that for any piece of gear that that people seem to senselessly bash.
What you've got to bear in mind, is that all of these people that are "senselessly bashing", started by simply stating their opinion of the product.
It wasn't until the trolls started stepping in and calling everybody arrogant elitist morons that they started defending themselves.
When some of the people come in with the "I'm absolutely right no matter what" attitude...yeah, people are going to get sick of it.
For the people that have such a problem with these Emotiva arguments, then quit participating in them. Arguments are two sided, ya know? They wouldn't turn into arguments if all of the Emo fanboys didn't have to jump in and make it sound like Emotiva is the second coming of Christ. Just state that you respectfully disagree with the opinions of the "arrogant eltist snobs:rolleyes:", state your own opinion of the product or topic at hand, and move along. It's pretty simple. When you have to turn it into an argument, and start posting tags about respected forum members(senseless bashing?
) being trolls, you're not helping to stop the argument. You're actually encouraging it and making it grow.
People have different opinions of different gear. If you like a particular piece, great, suggest it to people and tell them of your experience with it. If someone else happens to disagree, let them disagree, and hear their reasons why.The nirvana inducer-
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bigred7078 wrote: »As long as good conversation continues about the products whether they be praise or criticism i do not care, as long as its fair.
Who's to say what is fair. It seems like you want to be judge and jury over what someone's opinions are whether they have experience with a piece of gear or not.
I think Adcom equipment is a great bang for buck item. But I also think there is much better out there and I've found it to be true. That is my opinion.
I don't have any experience with Emo but if I say it is not reference or as good as another piece of gear that I feel would smoke it, it seems you would take offence to that opinion and call me a basher and elitest. This is what I've observed so far in your posts. -
TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »What ohter gear have you stood up for that someone has bashed?
Just Curious,
well if you read the post i gave a specific example of the most recent one;)
Lets see: AV123, Odyssey, Adcom, Anthem, REL, Polk, Paradigm, and blah blah blahPro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
bigred7078 wrote: »In the broad scheme of things does it really matter that they use the word "reference"? I don't see the point why some keep fixating on this word.
I definately agree though that the proof reading of manuals needs more care taking.
I was also a bit confused at the final weight of the product. Lonnie mentioned it would be around a hefty 30 lbs but it ended up at 17.5 lbs. Its still a hefty unit, but strange that it deviated some much from the original quote.
All in all, i think this will be an excellent unit. Is there better products out there? Of course, but i definately think for $399 its a great competitor within its price range.
Perhaps, you should ask the same question to EMOTIVA why they are so fond of using that word. I guess it's more appropriate since they use it in most of their products.
Yep! A few people needs to proof read the manual before printing.I'm still having some trouble understanding why these Emotiva threads seem destined to descend into hopeless chaos and anarchy, including senseless "attack tags".
It seems that Emotiva supporters think that those with more expensive gear inevitably want to bash Emotiva to justify their extravagant expenditures. It also seems to me that Emotiva supporters just cannot fathom the possibility that any criticism of Emotiva might be true. So, you end up with this:
- Emotiva supporters believe all those that buy more expensive gear are blind/lying and/or just stupid.
- Non-Emotiva supporters believe that Emotiva owners are blind/uneducated and/or just stupid.
A lot of topics get discussed here, and the discussion generally goes in all directions. There is usually a consensus of some description at some point, on almost every topic, with varying degrees of support, depending on priorities and personal preferences. Emotiva seems to totally escape this rule.
I have opinions on Emotiva, but I just give up on sharing them publicly any more. For this reason alone, I see no point in donating $25 to the Emotiva CDP experiment, since any negative results will be seized upon as biased, elitist and false, based on a preconceived negative opinion, or worse (intentional dishonesty). The funny thing is that my current receiver actually cost less than my Emotiva gear, so I am no elitist, even if I may have fairly demanding preferences in some areas.
Statements such as this are meaningless IMO:
How did it "beat them out", exactly?
As for this "review":
Although I am sure the reviewer believes that he has done his best to provide a useful opinion, it seems to be some sort of "right of passage" with Emotiva to find some piece of expensive gear that could not defeat the equivalent Emotiva unit, so why is it that some Emotiva owners expect new owners to find their Emotiva gear better than other equipment that cost four times as much, but that I am not entitled to find that my receivers have been able to equal, and even surpass the Emotiva gear I tried, that also cost more than what I currently use? Why is the comparison of more expensive and cheaper gear only valid when it favors Emotiva?
There are several CP members whose opinions I very much respect that own and like Emotiva gear. There are several others that have expressed an interest in owning this CDP, the upcoming pre/pro, or some of their amplifiers. There are even others that recommend Emotiva units without ever having heard one, so why is it that 90% of Emotiva supporters seem to:
(A) Want to brand Club Polk as a band of Emotiva haters and elitists;
(B) Keep coming back to attack any criticism of Emotiva, making valid, in depth discussion of pros and cons, likes and dislikes, an impossibility?
All this does is make a majority of Emotiva owners seem like a band of Honda Accord V6 drivers arguing that their car is a better performance vehicle, in almost every way, than an equivalent BMW or Mercedes ... with just about as much credibility.
This does nothing to further the goals of Emotiva or Club Polk IMO ... nor any of us enthusiasts of the audio hobby.
Nice Post, Kex! I hope the EMOTIVA owner and Fan Boys realize that we are not attacking their love for EMOTIVA. Therefore, they don't need to go out on full assault mode either.Thank you, and thank you!
Now, I know that many of those "waging war" in this thread don't give a deep fried cocktail **** what I think, but it would be an appropriate gesture IMO if some of you would be mature enough to remove some of those useless "attack tags" you may have previously added (especially those making a specific reference to a contributor, even if you are convinced he's a troll).
Some tags really bugs me. I hope the childish tag are never allowed to use in the CP and I hope some kind of screening mechanism can use for bad tag words.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
comfortablycurt wrote: »Damn...you got me. I've got pics. PM me if you're interested.;):p
What you've got to bear in mind, is that all of these people that are "senselessly bashing", started by simply stating their opinion of the product.
It wasn't until the trolls started stepping in and calling everybody arrogant elitist morons that they started defending themselves.
When some of the people come in with the "I'm absolutely right no matter what" attitude...yeah, people are going to get sick of it.
For the people that have such a problem with these Emotiva arguments, then quit participating in them. Arguments are two sided, ya know? They wouldn't turn into arguments if all of the Emo fanboys didn't have to jump in and make it sound like Emotiva is the second coming of Christ. Just state that you respectfully disagree with the opinions of the "arrogant eltist snobs:rolleyes:", state your own opinion of the product or topic at hand, and move along. It's pretty simple. When you have to turn it into an argument, and start posting tags about respected forum members(senseless bashing?) being trolls, you're not helping to stop the argument. You're actually encouraging it and making it grow.
People have different opinions of different gear. If you like a particular piece, great, suggest it to people and tell them of your experience with it. If someone else happens to disagree, let them disagree, and hear their reasons why.
I have respectfully disagreed and was called a fanboy for it.
And NO people such as my self have not just come charging in guns blazing for no reason into some threads, i would not do it if it was not warranted. And dont you think there is a reason behind why people say elitist? Its not just a random term thrown out there...
BUT HERE YA GO.... i disagree.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
hearingimpared wrote: »Who's to say what is fair. It seems like you want to be judge and jury over what someone's opinions are whether they have experience with a piece of gear or not.
I think Adcom equipment is a great bang for buck item. But I also think there is much better out there and I've found it to be true. That is my opinion.
I don't have any experience with Emo but if I say it is not reference or as good as another piece of gear that I feel would smoke it, it seems you would take offence to that opinion and call me a basher and elitest. This is what I've observed so far in your posts.
well im sorry you have not been attentive to my posts. Your looking beyond what i have said and creating what you want of itPro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
While a CD player still works, it is headed for the audio junkheap. Technology marches on, even if some people do not realize it, or are just slow. :cool:
That was a dumb post. -
The word Emotiva makes the hair on my neck stand up now.THE SYSTEM
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bigred7078 wrote: »Your looking beyond what i have said and creating what you want of it
You're doing the EXACT same thing....................such are situations where all you read are words on a screen. It happens in e-mail, written reports, etc. It's all open to interpretation. You're interpretation of what's written in this thread is no more correct/incorrect than the next person's.
Except you seem to think your view and explanation and stance on whatever issue you perceive is the only correct one.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul! -
You're doing the EXACT same thing....................such are situations where all you read are words on a screen. It happens in e-mail, written reports, etc. It's all open to interpretation. You're interpretation of what's written in this thread is no more correct/incorrect than the next person's.
Except you seem to think your view and explanation and stance on whatever issue you perceive is the only correct one.
H9
actually im not since even you have confessed to bashing on emotiva before. And again i dont care about peoples opinions, im talking about the stupid senseless posts like Ethancf above you posted. You and others do that same stuff to a much greater extent all the time.
But really this is all a moot point now, we obviously all agree to disagree lol. I'll tell ya what, i'll be respectful to you guys now, if everyone else stays respectful? Sound like a plan?Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
This wouldn't happen if statements like this do not exist. Food for thought........Do not lump. This is where things occur and end up in a 54 page useless thread.bigred7078 wrote: »You and others do that same stuff to a much greater extent all the time.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
This wouldn't happen if statements like this do not exist. Food for thought........Do not lump. This is where things occur and end up in a 54 page useless thread.
so i call a truce and you want to continue to point the finger?Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
You missed the point.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Keiko, you need to come visit me in Japan, I see this on a daily bro. Been out to Hawaii many times, so I know what you working with over there too.Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!
Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580 -
Convenient? Yes. Better? Subjective.
A CD's encoding is digital. What is the difference between a CD player with clean power supply and nice DAC vs a computer outputting its stream to an external DAC?
Just wondering what is better about a stand alone CDP vs a computerized juke outputting via a digital (all 1's and 0's) to an external DAC? -
Less connections for one thing and don't think for one second that all digital cables are the same.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Less connections for one thing and don't think for one second that all digital cables are the same.
I would like to see some measurements to back that up... Other than the fact that you should at least use a decent (not bottom barrel) cable.
Any digital formats (audio/ethernet/video) all have correction routines built in. That I understand.
But all things being the same when encoding, if you end up with a checksum that equals what is the checksum on the source material you have a bit perfect copy. I would be very interested to put my soon to arrive XONAR HDAV 1.3 with my cd juke up against an nice CDP. You can even swap out the DAC's on the XONAR.
But here is some food for thought: ATI and nVdia both have cards that blow $2000 DVD and Blu-ray players out of the water. As a matter of fact I haven't yet seen a stand alone DVD up scaler that can best a modern ATI (3000/4000) series using AVIVO.
Not trying to start another pissing match. But I I think you can make an HTPC a very competent and high end A/V solution. -
The relative quality of the analog output stages of both the CDP and external DAC would be very important factors in this comparison.What is the difference between a CD player with clean power supply and nice DAC vs a computer outputting its stream to an external DAC?Testing
Testing
Testing -
How could anything be more convenient than walking over to a CDP, slapping a disc in and pressing 'Play'. 2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
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dragon1952 wrote: »How could anything be more convenient than walking over to a CDP, slapping a disc in and pressing 'Play'.
Remain seated, open eyes, toggle through your entire music library via remote, press play and close eyes.;)Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
SCompRacer wrote: »Remain seated, open eyes, toggle through your entire music library via remote, press play and close eyes.;)
haha nicePro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
The relative quality of the analog output stages of both the CDP and external DAC would be very important factors in this comparison.
Probably the most important. There are some really nice external USB DAC's. -
Well, ya gotta get up when the CD's over and get another beer anyway (and take a wizz), so you might as well just slap another CD in there while you're at it.SCompRacer wrote: »Remain seated, open eyes, toggle through your entire music library via remote, press play and close eyes.;)
I guess I don't understand exactly how it works. What are you looking at while you're working the remote? 2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones -
IMO it would be, assuming ofcourse an error free low jitter data transfer to the external DAC.A good CDP will have low inherent jitter.Probably the most important.
Keep in mind that the USB interface is inferior to the SPDIF in the areas of jitter and resolution.Using a standard coaxial digital output from the soundcard would be the best option.There are some really nice external USB DAC's.Testing
Testing
Testing -
SCompRacer wrote: »Remain seated, open eyes, toggle through your entire music library via remote, press play and close eyes.;)
Sit down with glass of wine or beer. Put music server on random shuffle, press play, close eyes, listen to 1000s of songs. Open eyes, get more wine. Repeat.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
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dragon1952 wrote: »Well, ya gotta get up when the CD's over and get another beer anyway (and take a wizz), so you might as well just slap another CD in there while you're at it. I guess I don't understand exactly how it works. What are you looking at while you're working the remote?
With me it's my flat panel on the wall that my HTPC is hooked up to:
Play lists are awesome and so is the ability to sort by artists, genres, etc...
