Emotiva CD player a big hit so far

cnh

I don't know about Emotivas but I own a Denon AVR 2807 and well, that's not a fair comparison. The Denon is 110/channel....but in the surround mode probably a lot 'less'. Any reasonable power amp will sound a bit better even with the Denon as the pre-amp?

Few AVRs can compete with separates. Sunfire....well, you have your Carver fans and detractors, your Pass fans detractors, your Levenson fans and....perhaps one of Emos problems is that there is NO big NAME designer engineer!

I'm not inferring anything here but just suggesting....a factor...that might be involved--that we haven't yet discussed here!

cnh

dane_peterson

Well that's my point, really. In it's day the 2807 was what... $1100? Perhaps more? You can assemble an Emotiva pre and amp for that much, and (I hope we agree that) you'd have much better results than an AVR on its own.

So, like I said, great dollar/performance ratio. But back to the CD player...

apphd

Since this thread will not die I guess I'll ask this again, as I'm really trying to get my arms around this and understand/educate myself a little more. I asked this on page 2 here we are on page 5 and except for some posts by megga, heiney and a few others I have learned very little. I did find these:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/reference.html

http://www.build-a-recording-studio.com/studio-monitors.html

I am still trying to determine what "reference" specs are, and who enforces them.
Also without starting more *&it would like to ask this:
I doubt you would find anyone that would not say the Polk SDS SRS are GREAT speakers. Maybe some that they are not their cup of tea, but they could not say anything bad about them. But so far my understanding of "reference" indicates it was designed for pro studio mixing use. That being said, what makes them Signature Reference Series?
I'm trying to get my learn on here, so maybe this should be in its own thread to be taken seriously, I don't know, if this is wrong to piggyback it on to this let me know.

apphd wrote: »

I think that is the biggest problem. There is "Reference" and "reference quality". Both terms I think are different and used very loosely by many. There are numerous businesses that do custom installs that have the word "Reference" somewhere in their business name. It is used often in product names such as Monster Reference Power Center and Monster Interlink Reference - Reference Quality Audio Interconnect. I have no idea if these are truly "Reference" or if there is even a standard (esp. for the power center) that would quantify what "reference" is for these.

AES (Audio Engineering Society) I believe sets the standard for what meets the Professional sound recording and associated equipment.
What I am not sure of is if the word "reference" and specs./standards of AES are licensed like THX for example. I'm also not sure if these standards apply or were intended to apply to the commercial home market.

The only place I have found these on line is here:
http://www.aes.org/publications/standards/ which has them to purchase. Complete set of all standards = $500 for non AES members, or a document that only contains the recommended practice for describing and specifying loudspeaker components used in professional audio and sound-reinforcement systems. = $30.

I'm not that interested as to what actually defines "reference", as my budget will never allow "reference" rated gear to buy any of these documents.

When it comes to Emo I think they offer good product at a reasonable price and that's it. But have found themselves (maybe engineered by them or not) in a love em or hate em status on the internet which I think is over rated on both sides. (my $.02)

Since I am still on the up hill side of the learning curve I would appreciate corrections to my assumptions are on "reference"
Thanks

heiney9

Don't get yourself all messed up with specs or adjectives. They are a good guide, but in the end will not always tell you how something sounds. As far as the "adjectives" used to describe products...............always take those with a gain of salt. I rarely believe in marketing hype and it seems the gear I like most is the gear that doesn;t need flashing neon signs with big adjectives. The gears performance speaks for itself.

I'm sure at Emo's price point there are better sounding players and worse sounding players. The most annoying thing to me with Emo is all the self generated hype.......it gets old and it's very suspect. They are trying WAAAAYYYYYYY too hard. It's probably good middle road gear where there are hundreds of other choices and I'm sure they are better than some and others are better than Emo within the same arena of like priced and specific built gear.

If Emo floats your boat both in looks and performance.............go for it. I get tired of many people saying, hinting, alluding to the fact that's it's the 2nd coming of audio or that it can compete with much better gear.............it can't, it shouldn't and it certainly has it's place amongst the hundred or so lower/middle line gear. This type of gear is nothing new or out of the ordinary.....add it to a long list of choices. Get your ears on as much different gear as possible, occasionally glance at a spec sheet and pick the one that sounds good to YOU, in YOUR rig, in YOUR room, with YOUR music.

H9

bigred7078

heiney9 wrote: »

Don't get yourself all messed up with specs or adjectives. They are a good guide, but in the end will not always tell you how something sounds. As far as the "adjectives" used to describe products...............always take those with a gain of salt. I rarely believe in marketing hype and it seems the gear I like most is the gear that doesn;t need flashing neon signs with big adjectives. The gears performance speaks for itself.

I'm sure at Emo's price point there are better sounding players and worse sounding players. The most annoying thing to me with Emo is all the self generated hype.......it gets old and it's very suspect. They are trying WAAAAYYYYYYY too hard. It's probably good middle road gear where there are hundreds of other choices and I'm sure they are better than some and others are better than Emo within the same arena of like priced and specific built gear.

If Emo floats your boat both in looks and performance.............go for it. I get tired of many people saying, hinting, alluding to the fact that's it's the 2nd coming of audio or that it can compete with much better gear.............it can't, it shouldn't and it certainly has it's place amongst the hundred or so lower/middle line gear. This type of gear is nothing new or out of the ordinary.....add it to a long list of choices. Get your ears on as much different gear as possible, occasionally glance at a spec sheet and pick the one that sounds good to YOU, in YOUR rig, in YOUR room, with YOUR music.

H9

bow down to the wise audio god everyone

heiney9

A little off subject. There is a local Polkie that really likes his Emo gear and I respect that. He found what floats his boat and I'm happy he enjoys his system. That's what this hobby is all about. The other thing I respect about him vs. some of the others in the Emo camp is he isn't constantly trying to prove or convince that it's more than what it is. We've discussed Emo before........I've listened to his amp........we discussed more and in the end he likes what he likes and I like what I like.

H9

heiney9

bigred7078 wrote: »

bow down to the wise audio god everyone

You can curtsey instead of bowing BigRed

heiney9

bigred7078 wrote: »

bow down to the wise audio god everyone

This is EXACTLY the kind of comment I was eluding to in post #137 and why BigRed will never get any respect.

Bass_Pedal

Early B. wrote: »

There's a guy on the Emo Forum who compared a Raysonic CD-128 that he previously owned to the Emotiva ERC-1. It was a fairly lengthy review, but here's the bottom line:

"To wrap up, the Emotiva at less than 1/4 the price of the Raysonic CD-128 outperforms, out handles, and simply outshines the tube player. No contest, the ERC-1 is the one I would choose."

That's very high praise indeed! As an owner of the CD128, I can say if the player is as good as is reported, it's got to be one hell of a CDP. I don't want to say that it isn't as I have no experience with it. By way of personal comparison, the Raysonic outclassed my old Cambridge 640cv2 in every possible category, not a fair comparison IMO. I really can't fathom how they can pull off developing a player that could perform that well for so little. More investigation is required...

jinjuku

heiney9 wrote: »

If Emo floats your boat both in looks and performance.............go for it. I get tired of many people saying, hinting, alluding to the fact that's it's the 2nd coming of audio or that it can compete with much better gear.............it can't, it shouldn't and it certainly has it's place amongst the hundred or so lower/middle line gear. This type of gear is nothing new or out of the ordinary.....add it to a long list of choices. Get your ears on as much different gear as possible, occasionally glance at a spec sheet and pick the one that sounds good to YOU, in YOUR rig, in YOUR room, with YOUR music.

H9

That is where people become wary of you and the other 'regulars'. I had a chance to listen to the XPA3 compared to a more expensive NAD 272 (based on a per watt/per channel basis) and came away impressed. Now I just sit back and wait for the regulars to disparage NAD:rolleyes:

BTW I personally think NAD doesn't play 2nd fiddle to ROTEL/ATI/Adcom/B&K...

cnh

Personally I don't think NAD is what it used to be. But as I've said above I haven't heard an Emo so I can't make a comment on this.

cnh

heiney9

jinjuku wrote: »

That is where people become wary of you and the other 'regulars'. I had a chance to listen to the XPA3 compared to a more expensive NAD 272 (based on a per watt/per channel basis) and came away impressed. Now I just sit back and wait for the regulars to disparage NAD:rolleyes:

BTW I personally think NAD doesn't play 2nd fiddle to ROTEL/ATI/Adcom/B&K...

Well, IMO I like NAD but it's not what I consider "much better gear" when I made my statement. So it comes down to reading into what everyone writes and then applying what they say to your opinions and ideas of what they actually mean.

I don't think NAD plays 2nd fiddle to any of the like priced gear you mention either, but it is better than some similar priced gear and in some cases higher priced gear. Not sure I could say the same for Emo.............but again as I've always stated audio is a journey and we are all in different places. I have no use for Emo gear as I've been there done that and I've moved on.

As far as the guy with the Raysonic. I'd like to read a very detailed review from him because his general statements mean nothing. I also take those kinds of reviews with a grain of salt. If someone has a link to the review and it actually has some substance and he actually has a lot of experience with a lot of different higher end gear he'd certainly gain some credibility.

H9

heiney9

The fact is there are a plethora of cdp's priced at the $400 mark so there is stiff competition and I'm sure you can find better and worse for your money. Personally I'd spend a little more and get a Bada.

Many people here rave about the Cambridge units...........they never did much for me. Sort of sterile, analytical and a little to dry for my tastes.

heiney9

jinjuku wrote: »

That is where people become wary of you and the other 'regulars'. I had a chance to listen to the XPA3 compared to a more expensive NAD 272 (based on a per watt/per channel basis) and came away impressed. Now I just sit back and wait for the regulars to disparage NAD:rolleyes:

BTW I personally think NAD doesn't play 2nd fiddle to ROTEL/ATI/Adcom/B&K...

So I'm curious why is your opinion considered any more valuable than my opinion or anyone elses for that matter. Why shouldn't be people be wary of you? So you came away impressed......I didn;t when I heard Emo so agree to disagree.

Bass_Pedal

Here is the user comment from the Emo Lounge regarding the Raysonic CDP:

I'll give it a shot.

First, I guess the rest of the system should be described for the baseline. The ERC-1 is connected to a Consonance Cyber222 tube pre-amp with Zu Gede ICs. The amplification is done by my Denon avr3806 and the sound emenates from Zu Druids, 101db high efficiency widebanders with supertweeters above 12khz.

A major difference is when the Raysonic was in the system the amps were a pair of Consonance Cyber845 SET tube monoblocks. Totally different, so that has to accounted for. In time, when funds permit, the ERC-1 will also have 845s downstream.

So, the Raysonic hummed. Not much, but audible to me, and annoying. The ERC-1 is silent. Good deal.

The Raysonic was '' softer '', by which I mean not as detailed. It rolled off the extreme highs and to a lesser extent, the lows. This isn't really an undesirable effect, it's just different, still enjoyable. As many others have described, the ERC-1 extracts much more information from the cd and it's played through the speakers. Some say all, but I'm not sure that's true, so I say more. Much more. This makes the tunes more detailed, you can hear MORE of everything. Especially notable is the crash or shhhsing of cymbals, much more in your face in a good way.

I'd say both players are superb in the midrange, it's both of their strengths, moreso with the Raysonic, because the ERC-1 is also strong in the upper and lower octaves, by a fair margin. If that makes sense.

Looks are subjective, but the Raysonic looks very high tech with it's rounded corners and round top loader mechanism with the tube mounts and blue lit controls on top. It's a pretty piece. The ERC-1 also has a nice blue light show and the Emo look with the silver-ish side pieces. Nice.

Ergonomically, the ERC-1 wins hands down. A top loader is limited as to placement, it has to go on top of the rack. It drove me crazy when one of the dingbats would be changing a cd and I'd hear a bang from the top or disk holder. Tough on the nerves. The ERC-1 can be placed anywhere and the silky smoove loading mechanism is perfect. I'd take it anyday over any top loader!

To wrap up, the Emotiva at less than 1/4 the price of the Raysonic CD-128 outperforms, out handles, and simply outshines the tube player. No contest, the ERC-1 is the one I would choose.

Hope that's satisfactory, first time trying this.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2009, 4:48pm by artiek »

Take from that what you will...

heiney9

Thanks BP....that certainly gives a much better overview than the general statements originally posted. I'm happy for the original poster he found something he prefers.

One huge gripe is he didn't even use the same gear for both comparison's. Highly flawed IMO.

cnh

heiney9 wrote: »

The fact is there are a plethora of cdp's priced at the $400 mark so there is stiff competition and I'm sure you can find better and worse for your money. Personally I'd spend a little more and get a Bada.

Many people here rave about the Cambridge units...........they never did much for me. Sort of sterile, analytical and a little to dry for my tastes.

This is off the Emo topic. But I have to agree about Cambridge units. I have had the exact experience you describe with their sound...it just doesn't do it for me. Not much better than my much cheaper Yamaha Universal player..which certainly can sound quite harsh on some material....but I live with it until I can upgrade...use the Burr Brown DACs in my receiver...which help a little...with that...

cnh

F1nut

A major difference is when the Raysonic was in the system the amps were a pair of Consonance Cyber845 SET tube monoblocks. Totally different, so that has to accounted for. In time, when funds permit, the ERC-1 will also have 845s downstream.

Apples and oranges making the results basically worthless.

Bass_Pedal

That was my observation as well...

apphd

heiney, thanks for your input.

bigred7078 wrote: »

bow down to the wise audio god everyone

bigred, most times I feel your comments try to contribute and stay on topic, and I even agree with some, but this one I think just wasn't called for.

Yes marketing is, well just that. But is "reference" a worthless term now or is there a true spec that should be met, even if it is not enforced?

sucks2beme

After a couple of years over at head fi, one thing I have found out is
often a new product is called "giant killer" and heaped with praise.
A couple of months later, it fades. Why? The term they use over there
is FOTM(flavor of the month). There's a ton of audio virgins out there
that here a decent piece of gear and go gaga over it. It might be
a pretty good bang for the buck buy, but until someone more experienced
gets one, It's all a jab in the dark. IT took a while for me to figure out
who knew what they were doing over there. 80% of the place is
unreliable at best. I would trust a CP review long before a lot of other
boards. Jinjuku, we are wary of many new products. Both for sound
and product dependability. If that makes us bad people, so be it.
But most of the old timers here have led me to a much better system
than if I went it alone. That's good enough for me.

F1nut

often a new product is called "giant killer" and heaped with praise.
A couple of months later, it fades. Why? The term they use over there
is FOTM(flavor of the month). There's a ton of audio virgins out there
that here a decent piece of gear and go gaga over it.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

Do you like cookies or pie?

heiney9

Nice post sucks2beme.............anyone remember the Toshiba 5960's and the very first Oppo that came out. Hifi virgins were giddy with glee......all way over hyped and simply mediocre in the end.

H9

P.s. there's nothing wrong with being middle of the road. But, in the end it is what it is.

F1nut

Another over hyped product was the DK integrated amp. You can't give them away now.

Ricardo

F1nut wrote: »

Apples and oranges making the results basically worthless.

True. The funny thing is that now I am sure the members of the EMU forum are saying "I told you so" based on that review. How naive can they be?

jinjuku

heiney9 wrote: »

So I'm curious why is your opinion considered any more valuable than my opinion or anyone elses for that matter. Why shouldn't be people be wary of you? So you came away impressed......I didn;t when I heard Emo so agree to disagree.

You would have to ask people that value my opinion, same as they would need to ask people who value yours.

Difference here is I am not the one that made blanket statement about a manufacturer of gear:"tired of many people saying, hinting, alluding to the fact that it's the 2nd coming of audio or that it can compete with much better gear.............it can't"

But if I were to answer the question you posed however, I would say that since I don't make overly broad negative characterizations about a manufacturer vs an individual product. That it lends some form of credence to what I have to say.

One thing I think is safe to say in this particular segment is that most manufacturers (Rotel/ATI/Adcom/Emo/B&K/NAD/ etc...) make good product. That being said every manufacturer will have it's problem child. Use your ears.

jinjuku

Bass_Pedal wrote: »

Here is the user comment from the Emo Lounge regarding the Raysonic CDP:

I'll give it a shot.

First, I guess the rest of the system should be described for the baseline. The ERC-1 is connected to a Consonance Cyber222 tube pre-amp with Zu Gede ICs. The amplification is done by my Denon avr3806 and the sound emenates from Zu Druids, 101db high efficiency widebanders with supertweeters above 12khz.

A major difference is when the Raysonic was in the system the amps were a pair of Consonance Cyber845 SET tube monoblocks. Totally different, so that has to accounted for. In time, when funds permit, the ERC-1 will also have 845s downstream.

If I am reading that right, totally different setups. Then the 'comparison' is worthless.

LessisNevermore

heiney9 wrote: »

A little off subject. There is a local Polkie that really likes his Emo gear and I respect that. He found what floats his boat and I'm happy he enjoys his system. That's what this hobby is all about. The other thing I respect about him vs. some of the others in the Emo camp is he isn't constantly trying to prove or convince that it's more than what it is. We've discussed Emo before........I've listened to his amp........we discussed more and in the end he likes what he likes and I like what I like.

H9

When you hear it paired with a pre that plays well with the amp, your opinion of it will improve.(though I doubt it will completely change, because NP had nothing to do with it:p:D) To my ears, the phase was clearly being inverted, so of course it sounded less than impressive.

I'll bring it to the next gathering, along with a pre that plays well with it. Synergy and all that, right?:cool:

jinjuku

sucks2beme wrote: »

Jinjuku, we are wary of many new products. Both for sound and product dependability. If that makes us bad people, so be it.
But most of the old timers here have led me to a much better system
than if I went it alone. That's good enough for me.

My first setup was a Crown DC300A/DC150/IC150 and a pair of really great sounding AR's. That was in 87 (still in HS).

I found my system through a buddy that owned an electronics repair shop (no he wasn't selling the Crown, just his recommendation). I would bug the piss out Denny:) (Sorry dude). Emo has been around long enough (in my mind) to establish a good reputation and already starting on another generation of product. There are simply too many message boards with too many overly positive owners of Emo gear. I can't discount Emotiva especially in light of that and having had the chance to play with what many would consider a mainstay/representative offering of their lineup.

Why threads like this only seems to go on at Polk Forums, who can say. I don't think you guys are any smarter or dumber than the guys on any of the other boards.

megasat16

heiney9 wrote: »

A little off subject. There is a local Polkie that really likes his Emo gear and I respect that. He found what floats his boat and I'm happy he enjoys his system. That's what this hobby is all about. The other thing I respect about him vs. some of the others in the Emo camp is he isn't constantly trying to prove or convince that it's more than what it is. We've discussed Emo before........I've listened to his amp........we discussed more and in the end he likes what he likes and I like what I like.

H9

Great Post H9! You hit the nail on the head and it's all that's really matter but some EMO fan boys seem to take a bit too serious about EMO reference quality. Since I've read a whole bunch of the term Reference on all XPA series amps on EMO website long ago, I no longer pay attention to what EMO called their products Reference but some EMO lovers can't let it go.

EMO offers reasonable quality product at Bang for the Buck and take it as it is.

To die hard EMO lovers, there is a whole different world out there which is above and beyond what EMO can offer so indulge yourself in different gears.....:) Listen to others' stuff, compare to your EMO stuff, and then decide what's best for you. If you like EMO, it's awesome. But just give other products a chance (by listening and comparing) just as much as you want EMO to be given a chance....:)