No excuse for cable naysayers

mhmacw

its hard to explain sometimes that even though cables are a serious part of a system it doenst do any good to put a $30,000 rca cable on a $5000 stereo. not that it wouldn help but that the stereo isnt good enough to realize the difference between that and a $500 dollar cable. i asked the question of where does cabling start ot out grow the system...meaning where do cables become more capable than the system its being put on and thereby wasting the extra money and ability of the cable. i didnt really get an answer. it sure would be nice if there was a chart for compatability so as not to over or under cable any particular system. got to go with h9 on this one about gavin not mentioning the lending library to this or any internet forum. though im part of it (in respect to the 1/4 million dollar 2 channells) too much riff raff. it would be a logistical nightmare just fielding the emails haha.

jm1

Zeros wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what requirements would need to be met to qualify, huh?

Stuff
Sources
- DAC: Museatex Bitstream (latest revisions from John W)
- Transport: Pioneer Elite DV-59avi
- TT: VPI Scout Signature (super platter, periphery ring, ZYX cart, PS Audio GCPH)
- Other: Motorola digital cable box
BPT BP-2.5 (20A, Bybee Quantum Purifiers, differential noise filter)
Simaudio P-5 preamp
Simaudio W-3 amp
Bryston 10B-Sub Active crossover
Dynaudio Confidence C1 (Stand 4, each filled with 70lbs of lead shot)
(2) SVS PC-Ultra
Nordost Frey RCA IC (except where noted)
Harmonic Technology 3M Truthlink XLR IC (GCPH to P-5)
Harmonic Technology Pro-Silway MkII RCA IC (digital cable box to P-5)
Nordost BassLine IC (10B-Sub to PC-Ultra)
Nordost Frey speaker cable
Hi-Fi Tuning fuses

Room
- 15x13x8
- 11 tube traps
- Three diffuser panels
- 4’x8’ proprietary ceiling panel I designed and constructed

General
- The system components were specifically chosen for the room size
- The room treatments were added to optimize the sonic characteristics of the room allowing the components to present the true nature of the playback media
- The room is also used for HT
- The system is foremost configured and purposefully optimized for two channel use
- The sonic clarity of music from classical to mainstream rock is profound
- Extremely dynamic etc. etc.
- One diffuser panel is portable and is used between the speakers to eliminate the effects of having a RPTV in the room
- Viewing movies is just as much an experience as listening to music

Issues
- The distance between the speakers is 81% of the speaker to listening position distance. This produces a solid center image which does not fade when sound traverses the width of the soundstage. The center image seems to be just slightly recessed from the plane of the monitors. I have read others have noted this with Nordost cables.


Thread Comments
- This is an abbreviation of what was submitted
- This and the original submission is in no way comprehensive of what I have experimented with and realized within the room
- I was amazed I was selected
- I was startled they recommended the Magnum series cables
- A system not only comprises the physical components, but the acoustic environment they are located in. My view on this was clearly detailed in my responses.
- This affliction is all about what you hear. I have paid as much, but in reality probably more, attention to the acoustics of the room as I have agonizing about component selection.
- The room is where the real gains are to be found for any component configuration.

F1nut

If one has a system that costs less than the cost of the cables in MIT's lending program, why in the world would you even think about applying to demo them and why would you feel put down when they tell you no as you already knew that you can't afford them. Get real people.

gdb

How about just pulling a $200K system out of your butt/imagination and applying with that?? I suppose they'll demand pics of you standing next to it too ! Maybe a tax return and a pay stub just for good measure.:rolleyes:

comfortablycurt

I'm furious. I'm going to make the destruction of MIT Cables Co. one of my lifes goals.

F1nut

gdb wrote: »

How about just pulling a $200K system out of your butt/imagination and applying with that?? I suppose they'll demand pics of you standing next to it too ! Maybe a tax return and a pay stub just for good measure.:rolleyes:

Try to test drive an exotic car without verifying your income first......I wish you luck with that one.

I really don't understand why this concept is so bloody hard to grasp for some of you.

F1nut

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I'm furious. I'm going to make the destruction of MIT Cables Co. one of my lifes goals.

LOL....get to hacking those trees up, I know there's good money to be made in that business.

comfortablycurt

Seriously though...

Does anyone actually pay $45,000 for a freakin cable? Seriously? If you can afford that...I hope you're at least donating 10-20 million a year to charity.

That's not to belittle the improvements that quality cabling can make...but I fail to see how the construction of a wire can justify a price tag of $45,000. If there's just something I'm missing here...please enlighten me...but it boggles my mind. I'm not trying to incite an argument or debate...but seriously, how can they justify charging that much?

comfortablycurt

F1nut wrote: »

LOL....get to hacking those trees up, I know there's good money to be made in that business.

For the most part, I try not to hack them up. What I specialize in, is preventing them from needing to be hacked up.;)

We're a notch above the "hillbilly with a ladder" tree services...lol

Technically, I'm an Arborist, or tree doctor, if you will.:)

F1nut

Eh, they wouldn't make them if no one bought them.

I've demoed rigs with MIT's TOTL cables, but did not compare them to another brand. Since I'm not likely to buy a pair at the that price point I don't give any thought as to whether they are worth it or not.

We're a notch above the "hillbilly with a ladder" tree services...lol

Technically, I'm an Arborist, or tree doctor, if you will.

Money there too.

I've got a cherry tree I need to talk to you about.

comfortablycurt

F1nut wrote: »

Eh, they wouldn't make them if no one bought them.

I've demoed rigs with MIT's TOTL cables, but did not compare them to another brand. Since I'm not likely to buy a pair at the that price point I don't give any thought as to whether they are worth it or not.

Yes...I suppose. There's a buyer for every product out there I suppose. Personally, even if I was in a position to afford 45k cables...I really don't think I could bring myself to spend that much on them. It just seems a bit ridiculously over-indulgent to me...lol

Money there too.

I've got a cherry tree I need to talk to you about.

Yeah, I manage to do alright. We're basically the only company in a 40-50 mile radius that specializes in what we do. I also climb professionally, and specialize in inaccessible trees, where using a bucket truck isn't a possibility. We also have a bucket truck and all that though of course.

The major drawback in this line of work, is that we come to basically a standstill this time of year. I've got a few jobs on the books right now, but I'm not really working for the most part.

Feel free to shoot me any questions if you've got them.:) Cherry trees are very common around my neck of the woods, so I've got quite a bit of experience dealing with them in particular.

gdb

"...but seriously, how can they justify charging that much?"

Same applies where diamond jewelry is concerned. Because they want to, and can. No real correlation between cost to produce and selling price. Nobody NEEDS $40,000.00 cables or jewelry but, a fortunate few want them enough to pay the freight for such extravagances. If I had unlimited cash on hand........ I'd probably buy them just to "keep up with the Gettys"!:D

gdb

"Yeah, I manage to do alright. We're basically the only company in a 40-50 mile radius that specializes in what we do. I also climb professionally, and specialize in inaccessible trees, where using a bucket truck isn't a possibility. We also have a bucket truck and all that though of course.

The major drawback in this line of work, is that we come to basically a standstill this time of year. I've got a few jobs on the books right now, but I'm not really working for the most part.

Feel free to shoot me any questions if you've got them. Cherry trees are very common around my neck of the woods, so I've got quite a bit of experience dealing with them in particular"


I just about got run off the arboristsite forum because I questioned why I was quoted $1200.00-$1500.00 for dropping an 80-90foot tulip poplar over my springhouse and solicited the services of a "worker" to do it as a "side job" for a more reasonable/realistic price. I got all the standard blah blah blah about eqipment costs etc. I buy Stihl saws and I get Bailey's catalog so I know what gear costs, I also know that it does NOT need to be bought new for every job. Kinda hit a sore spot with some of those manly woodsmen and they started crying like girly men !! The only person I'm ever going to pay $300.00hr. is maybe an attorney and if I'm charged with something really bad !:D

wutadumsn23

F1nut wrote: »

If one has a system that costs less than the cost of the cables in MIT's lending program, why in the world would you even think about applying to demo them and why would you feel put down when they tell you no as you already knew that you can't afford them. Get real people.

In all fairness Jesse, I didn't know what cables they were loaning out until I got the E-mail from Gavin. I don't at all feel turned off that I got denied, if I had known the quality of the cables being loaned out I never would have even bothered, lol. Although Gavin did make a more than sensible counter offer for a set of cables more suited to my humble HT, one which I am very seriously considering.

-Jeff

superjunior

F1nut wrote: »

LOL....get to hacking those trees up, I know there's good money to be made in that business.

not always the case Jesse, what we have to pay in workmans comp and liability insurance is staggering to say the least

superjunior

gdb wrote: »

"Yeah, I manage to do alright. We're basically the only company in a 40-50 mile radius that specializes in what we do. I also climb professionally, and specialize in inaccessible trees, where using a bucket truck isn't a possibility. We also have a bucket truck and all that though of course.

The major drawback in this line of work, is that we come to basically a standstill this time of year. I've got a few jobs on the books right now, but I'm not really working for the most part.

Feel free to shoot me any questions if you've got them. Cherry trees are very common around my neck of the woods, so I've got quite a bit of experience dealing with them in particular"


I just about got run off the arboristsite forum because I questioned why I was quoted $1200.00-$1500.00 for dropping an 80-90foot tulip poplar over my springhouse and solicited the services of a "worker" to do it as a "side job" for a more reasonable/realistic price. I got all the standard blah blah blah about eqipment costs etc. I buy Stihl saws and I get Bailey's catalog so I know what gear costs, I also know that it does NOT need to be bought new for every job. Kinda hit a sore spot with some of those manly woodsmen and they started crying like girly men !! The only person I'm ever going to pay $300.00hr. is maybe an attorney and if I'm charged with something really bad !:D

we only charge 180.00 per hr for a 3 man crew

heiney9

gdb wrote: »

"...but seriously, how can they justify charging that much?"

Same applies where diamond jewelry is concerned. Because they want to, and can. No real correlation between cost to produce and selling price. Nobody NEEDS $40,000.00 cables or jewelry but, a fortunate few want them enough to pay the freight for such extravagances. If I had unlimited cash on hand........ I'd probably buy them just to "keep up with the Gettys"!:D

Cables and jewelry are not the same. At some point there was R & D involved with the cables (not saying that solely justifies the $45K price tag) Diamonds (natural) have no R & D associated with the product. The market for Diamonds is artificially manipulated to keep prices consistently high and limited product available.

That is not a good analogy at all, IMO

H9

gdb

heiney9 wrote: »

Cables and jewelry are not the same. At some point there was R & D involved with the cables (not saying that solely justifies the $45K price tag) Diamonds (natural) have no R & D associated with the product. The market for Diamonds is artificially manipulated to keep prices consistently high and limited product available.

That is not a good analogy at all, IMO

H9

The point was/is justification, there is none for those prices on either item (IMO). A boatload more "R & D" goes into producing far more complex items, and at much lower prices. I say, if you can get away with it....God Bless! Charge whatever the market will bear, just please don't blow smoke up my a$s about how it needs to be priced so high.

Face

This thread reminds me why I don't post at a certain vintage audio site anymore.

heiney9

I agree to a point, but how do you know so much about the cable industry and all the R & D they may or may not do and what it costs? Or are you just guessing? I agree $45K is very high and way out of my budget. And yes, they probably are catering to a segment who must spend "x" amount of money to "feel" good about the purchase and those purchasers probably have unlimited funds. But, there are thousands upon thousands of those types of products in the marketplace so this shouldn't be so appalling to everyone.

H9

mhmacw

heiney9 wrote: »

Cables and jewelry are not the same. At some point there was R & D involved with the cables (not saying that solely justifies the $45K price tag) Diamonds (natural) have no R & D associated with the product. The market for Diamonds is artificially manipulated to keep prices consistently high and limited product available.

That is not a good analogy at all, IMO

H9

i agree the analogy is a little skewed but dont for a second assume there hasnt been YEARS of r&d on how to cut a diamond. my question about the cables is what are they actually made of? some proprietary material that conducts better than gold? i mean if they are a series of nano engines maybe but even they have amperage limits to date. id really like to see what the materials list looks like.

gdb

In no way appalled, envious is a better term where I'm concerned. I'd like nothing better than to drape my wife with diamonds, and my stereo with $100,000.00 worth of cables.:)

gdb

mhmacw wrote: »

i agree the analogy is a little skewed but dont for a second assume there hasnt been YEARS of r&d on how to cut a diamond. my question about the cables is what are they actually made of? some proprietary material that conducts better than gold? i mean if they are a series of nano engines maybe but even they have amperage limits to date. id really like to see what the materials list looks like.

I'm guessing that when the patents run out, that there'll be more than one who will reverse engineer them and produce them for sale at a drastically lower cost. For all I know it may be happening even now as we type these posts!:eek::D

mhmacw

gdb wrote: »

I'm guessing that when the patents run out, that there'll be more than one who will reverse engineer them and produce them for sale at a drastically lower cost. For all I know it may be happening even now as we type these posts!:eek::D

Id like to at least reverse engineer a set of my own lol

mdaudioguy

Here's what seems to be a more viable option for trying out all kinds of cables: http://www.thecableco.com/faq.php#library Although there's a non-refundable deposit required, they will apply that amount toward your purchase. Has anyone done business with The Cable Company? Impressions?

lmacmil

mdaudioguy wrote: »

Here's what seems to be a more viable option for trying out all kinds of cables: http://www.thecableco.com/faq.php#library

Please read this before you throw away your hard earned money on cables which will do nothing but lighten your wallet.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

Face

Another Luddite.

mdaudioguy

lmacmil wrote: »

Please read this before you throw away your hard earned money on cables which will do nothing but lighten your wallet.

My wallet was feeling a little heavy anyhow. Thanks for the warning. However, I'm moving forward and looking for advice as far as what to purchase, not what not to purchase. Folks, please avoid the distraction of responding to the above post. There are already too many such discussions available here and elsewhere.

comfortablycurt

lmacmil wrote: »

Please read this before you throw away your hard earned money on cables which will do nothing but lighten your wallet.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

No.

That's all I have to say.

concealer404

lmacmil wrote: »

Please read this before you throw away your hard earned money on cables which will do nothing but lighten your wallet.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/audiophoolery.html

Your posts are not welcome in this thread. This is not a debate about whether or not they make a difference. There are plenty of threads for that purpose. This is not one of them.