Power Cable Upgrade
Comments
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wrong...one can easily hypothesize (sp?) and make a reasonable arguement for or against with the example you provided. I.e. Composites will affect the flexability of the ski which affect how the ski responds to uneven snow surfaces, etc....
Please give theory on why 2 properly shielded ,fully functioning powercords would be audibly discernible but varying AC line voltage, temperture, etc..are not.
Anyway..I gotta log for the day...maybe pick this up later. again..I don't mean to knock anybody if they really think they hear a difference..
I'm gonna watch "Whip It" tonight...hope its good...
Is your name Michael Stivic? HHMMMMMMMM I hope I spelled Meatheads name right :rolleyes: -
wrong...one can easily hypothesize (sp?) and make a reasonable arguement for or against with the example you provided. I.e. Composites will affect the flexability of the ski which affect how the ski responds to uneven snow surfaces, etc....
Please give theory on why 2 properly shielded ,fully functioning powercords would be audibly discernible but varying AC line voltage, temperature, etc..are not.
So you are saying you want to switch the focus of the debate from power cords to line conditioners and voltage stabilizers??
I think you will find even more support for them.
MichaelMains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms) -
Well, if it's not possible, then by all means feel free to be restricted in your own personal audio journey. I wish you well and happy listening.I thought I did anwser it. NO.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
There may be some...ah....logic to the unbelief that PCs could make any audible difference.
Since the 'object'ivists claim that there is no imperical evidence that amps, or DACs, or CDPs, or cables sound different, then one need not invest in any system that is more costly than say this system:
And if you did, the 'object'ivists would shout you down and deride you for lunacy with a barrage of 'scientific' links.
Hence, it may not be possible to even try to a different power cord.
That may be why some may not even entertain the offer of trying a PC for themselves.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
I could,and never will, understand what attracts these bozo's to this club. I mean really,didn't they read the sign that the Bose forum is 3 blocks down on the right?
I thought the ski analogy was pretty good btw.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Cool...with Treitz the exception, I try and offer you an arguement on why PC's shouldn't matter and look for reason on why they would matter. Instead of responding with a thought out intelligent reply you guys respond with insults and other meaningless dribble...
By all means carry on... -
Along those same lines..if a system was revealing enough that it allowed you to hear audible differences from a different power cord I'd imagine you'd hear differences as your AC line voltage varied throughout the day,
Actually, I can hear those differences and know many others that can as well.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
And just for the record..I DID update my power cables on my amps and subwoofer. I spent about $60 per cables. I did cuz my cords were visible and I wanted something that looked neat and had a nice build to it.
Not too vain, are you!?!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Yes..I would never waste my time auditioning powercords. But I enjoy the discussion...;)
In that case, you've got nothing to say on the matter.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Good point.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Why can't you state, once in every thread that comes up against you belief that, you simply don;t believe in it. Why must you constantly try and always have your POV, opinion be the only possible correct outcome?
But it doesn't apply to believers, right? Why must you constantly try and have your opinion be the only possible outcome? Why don't you just post your opinion once in every thread? Why is it only the believers that you feel should be able to post again and again on the subject? -
Nevermind.I've been unimpressed with your maturity since the day you joined. I guess we all have our little disappointments.
**** it, this thread just got a lot shorter. Much better.I don't read the newsssspaperssss because dey aaaallllllllll...... have ugly print.
Living Room: B&K Reference 5 S2 / Parasound HCA-1000A / Emotiva XDA-2 / Pioneer BDP-51FD / Paradigm 11se MKiii
Desk: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / ISK HD9999
Office: Schiit Magni 2 Uber / Schiit Modi 2 Uber / Dynaco SCA-80Q / Paradigm Legend V.3
HT: Denon AVR-X3400H / Sony UBP-X700 / RT16 / CS350LS / RT7 / SVS PB1000 -
I could,and never will, understand what attracts these bozo's to this club. I mean really,didn't they read the sign that the Bose forum is 3 blocks down on the right?
I thought the ski analogy was pretty good btw.
I ski a lot and yes, it was a good analogy from an "end result" perspective, but the physical analogy doesn't equate well to the electrical reality of how power passes through a conductor.
I'm not sure it's fair to ask for theories. I read a lot and most of the white papers from cable manufacturers are way above my head. It would be like asking you to provide written theories about why the US space program is better than Iran's. But we all know the US can launch more than a worm and a rat into space.
The only part of it all that I can be sure of is my higher line power cables provide better sound quality.VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
Along those same lines..if a system was revealing enough that it allowed you to hear audible differences from a different power cord I'd imagine you'd hear differences as your AC line voltage varied throughout the day,Actually, I can hear those differences and know many others that can as well.
Agreed!
Just to lay an example;
During the summer months when everyone is sucking the life out of the electric companies with their air conditioners on that listening to music during the day is difficult due to the grunge. On those days, the evening hours especially when most of the area's population is in bed and their A/C is off the rig sounds spectacular as it usually does when the power isn't corrupted by all the motor noises and fluxuations in voltage and the various changes in the 60 cycle per second.
It's not as bad in the winter months as most of the people in this development have gas heat. I am the only one in the area that has electric heat.
Chew on that for awhile. -
Hmmm....how can something thats never been proven to exist...exist then ?
Good question. Guess you will have to ask those that believe it exists. -
I believe in Santa Clause, still. And when a bell rings an Angel gets it's wings. And rain is liquid sunshine for the unicorns to play in. And I have a Strawberry Shortcake lunch box that talks to me....in Spanish. Which is a bummer because I don't understand Spanish and I think it's saying bad things about me and my pal Bigfoot.
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There is no belief. There only is.
Shutup Russ.
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I'm gonna hump your Linbrooks tomorrow and walk away.....
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They are already used and abused but hey, if you want sloppy seconds? By all means....~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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to late Russ... all that's left is sloppy seconds, and I do mean SLOPPY! LOL... make that THIRDS!The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
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William, this is not in any way directed at you, as I have nothing more to say to you. That said, you did raise a good question that I will address to the rest of the forum.Why is it only the believers that you feel should be able to post again and again on the subject?
We "believers" first and foremost are not "believers". We are those in the know. We have experienced what some have not and what some never will. That does not make us special, superior or in any way different from anybody else out there in audio land. It only makes us experienced. Nothing more, nothing less.
To answer the aforementioned question? The folks in the know feel we should be able to post again and again on the subject because we have experienced the changes that a PC/SC/IC can make. We can tell you or anybody else in intimate detail the differences in what we hear. Does anybody for one second even think that those in the know seem to hear same things is just a sheer coincidence.....even though most of us have never met each other or even talked about what we hear to each other offline? Never mind, don't answer that.
Raife has gone beyond the call of duty to show the scientific part of what makes a PC audibly different from another, yet this scientific data has never been absorbed or linked in any of the folks who don't think that PC's/IC's/SC's can make any change at all.
So, that said, to further answer the question.....since scientific proof has been laid out on the table and overwhelming empirical data more than suggests that change [whether good or bad] can and will happen, we feel the right to offer our observances.
There are those that think [not observe] that PC's/IC's/SC's do not make a change in the sound. Well, their thoughts are just that......inexperienced thoughts. If you haven't had experience, then all you can say is that you do not believe that cables make a difference. We can deal with that.
That said, when those who actually have heard said differences speak up about it? We have more to offer than just "Cables don't make a difference". We can offer exactly what a particular cable can do to the sound stage, imaging, impact, clarity, resolution, depth, height, width, purity, tonal characteristics, naturalness, rolloff, presence, resonance, pinpoint imagery, spatial cues, visceral impact, transients, focus and overall holographic stereo imaging.
That sure as hell beats "Cables do not make a difference" and that's why we feel we have the right to discuss the subject further.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
Golf clap, Tom.
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William, this is not in any way directed at you, as I have nothing more to say to you. That said, you did raise a good question that I will address to the rest of the forum.
We "believers" first and foremost are not "believers". We are those in the know. We have experienced what some have not and what some never will. That does not make us special, superior or in any way different from anybody else out there in audio land. It only makes us experienced. Nothing more, nothing less.
To answer the aforementioned question? The folks in the know feel we should be able to post again and again on the subject because we have experienced the changes that a PC/SC/IC can make. We can tell you or anybody else in intimate detail the differences in what we hear. Does anybody for one second even think that those in the know seem to hear same things is just a sheer coincidence.....even though most of us have never met each other or even talked about what we hear to each other offline? Never mind, don't answer that.
Raife has gone beyond the call of duty to show the scientific part of what makes a PC audibly different from another, yet this scientific data has never been absorbed or linked in any of the folks who don't think that PC's/IC's/SC's can make any change at all.
So, that said, to further answer the question.....since scientific proof has been laid out on the table and overwhelming empirical data more than suggests that change [whether good or bad] can and will happen, we feel the right to offer our observances.
There are those that think [not observe] that PC's/IC's/SC's do not make a change in the sound. Well, their thoughts are just that......inexperienced thoughts. If you haven't had experience, then all you can say is that you do not believe that cables make a difference. We can deal with that.
That said, when those who actually have heard said differences speak up about it? We have more to offer than just "Cables don't make a difference". We can offer exactly what a particular cable can do to the sound stage, imaging, impact, clarity, resolution, depth, height, width, purity, tonal characteristics, naturalness, rolloff, presence, resonance, pinpoint imagery, spatial cues, visceral impact, transients, focus and overall holographic stereo imaging.
That sure as hell beats "Cables do not make a difference" and that's why we feel we have the right to discuss the subject further.
Excellent post.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Couldn't have stated it better myself!
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I searched this thread looking for different opinions on power cables from other members. This would be my first power cable upgrade for my modest system and I was just trying to see what a good entry level cable is. Instead of finding 9 pages of people talking about the different cables they have tried and liked or disliked, there is 9 pages of childish back and forth. Good thing I used that search function some of you old crusties chime in to the newcomers about
I really dont see the point in trying to convince somebody of your beliefs when they are either closeminded or retarded (I am not sure which after reading some of those responses "I dont believe you, you are an ediot" (no, not a direct quote) is NOT a valid counterpoint, FYI.
Anyway,
I have a rx-v1700 bi-amped to my lsi-15s (made a huge difference for me, simply because the LSIs are too demanding a load for my little receiver). I have been leaning towards something from Signal Cable as the prices are modest and I have heard alot of good things. I do have alot of noise in my a/c lines, but I live in an older apartment so I am stuck with it for now. Any other opinions on other power cables (which you have tried) that are in the 50-70 dollar range.
P.S I bought a B&K ST-1400 on e-bay, and there is gross distortion from the left channel...... Anybody know any reputable service depots located in Canada?? (I live in a dinky little town, and the repair men are all scared)
Thanks
Jeremy
[The Ever-Evolving System
LSI15's (PNF Symphony cabels, modded X-Over and subs), LSIC, LSI7's, Rega Apollo CDP (PNF ICON ICs, modified PS cct.), Yamaha RXV-1700 w/ ipod dock, B&K REF200.2 (fronts) Samsung BDP-1600, XBOX360, Patriot Box Office Media Player, 42" Samsung LCD. -
To answer the aforementioned question? The folks in the know feel we should be able to post again and again on the subject because we have experienced the changes that a PC/SC/IC can make. We can tell you or anybody else in intimate detail the differences in what we hear. Does anybody for one second even think that those in the know seem to hear same things is just a sheer coincidence.....even though most of us have never met each other or even talked about what we hear to each other offline? Never mind, don't answer that.
They are the same descriptions used on all cable and components. Tighter bass, wider sound stage, better detail, etc. No surprise there.Raife has gone beyond the call of duty to show the scientific part of what makes a PC audibly different from another, yet this scientific data has never been absorbed or linked in any of the folks who don't think that PC's/IC's/SC's can make any change at all.
The only thing his measurements show, is that the differences are far below the threshold of audibility. No different than the measurements taken by others over the years. Not like he's had any of this peer reviewed, published in a scientific journal, and accepted as factSo, that said, to further answer the question.....since scientific proof has been laid out on the table and overwhelming empirical data more than suggests that change [whether good or bad] can and will happen, we feel the right to offer our observances.
You haven't offered any scientific proof, just more baseless claims that you have been unable to demonstrate.That said, when those who actually have heard said differences speak up about it? We have more to offer than just "Cables don't make a difference". We can offer exactly what a particular cable can do to the sound stage, imaging, impact, clarity, resolution, depth, height, width, purity, tonal characteristics, naturalness, rolloff, presence, resonance, pinpoint imagery, spatial cues, visceral impact, transients, focus and overall holographic stereo imaging.
When you can verify that some of you have the ability to hear the difference in cables, your descriptions might actually mean something. Until then, it's just another claim. -
If you believe that crap, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Look, if you want proof? Get your **** either to my house or attend Carverfest this year. I don't want to hear any excuses this time. Just get your **** there or STFU.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I searched this thread looking for different opinions on power cables from other members. This would be my first power cable upgrade for my modest system and I was just trying to see what a good entry level cable is. Instead of finding 9 pages of people talking about the different cables they have tried and liked or disliked, there is 9 pages of childish back and forth. Good thing I used that search function some of you old crusties chime in to the newcomers about
I really dont see the point in trying to convince somebody of your beliefs when they are either closeminded or retarded (I am not sure which after reading some of those responses "I dont believe you, you are an ediot" (no, not a direct quote) is NOT a valid counterpoint, FYI.
Anyway,
I have a rx-v1700 bi-amped to my lsi-15s (made a huge difference for me, simply because the LSIs are too demanding a load for my little receiver). I have been leaning towards something from Signal Cable as the prices are modest and I have heard alot of good things. I do have alot of noise in my a/c lines, but I live in an older apartment so I am stuck with it for now. Any other opinions on other power cables (which you have tried) that are in the 50-70 dollar range.
P.S I bought a B&K ST-1400 on e-bay, and there is gross distortion from the left channel...... Anybody know any reputable service depots located in Canada?? (I live in a dinky little town, and the repair men are all scared)
Thanks
Jeremy
"Old Crusties" LOL! Get the Signal Cable Magic power cable, you won't be disappointed. -
They are the same descriptions used on all cable and components. Tighter bass, wider sound stage, better detail, etc. No surprise there.
The only thing his measurements show, is that the differences are far below the threshold of audibility. No different than the measurements taken by others over the years. Not like he's had any of this peer reviewed, published in a scientific journal, and accepted as fact
You haven't offered any scientific proof, just more baseless claims that you have been unable to demonstrate.
When you can verify that some of you have the ability to hear the difference in cables, your descriptions might actually mean something. Until then, it's just another claim.
Raife has provided plenty of scientific proof, you just choose to ignore it or call it voo doo science. BTW IIRC he has been published.
This discussion has been closed.