Power Cable Upgrade

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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,329
    edited February 2010
    moodyman wrote: »
    The OP solicited opinions about power cord upgrades. So a person can only post if they believe one fully functional power cord can sound different than another fully functional power cord?? You don't like my opinion...?? Too bad.


    You have an opinon about something you have no experience or belief in,and to top it off you have no desire to try it,yet your going to solicit an opinion on the topic to help the OP.:rolleyes:


    Trolling at its finest.
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  • moodyman
    moodyman Posts: 45
    edited February 2010
    TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »
    You have an opinon about something you have no experience or belief in,and to top it off you have no desire to try it,yet your going to solicit an opinion on the topic to help the OP.:rolleyes:


    Trolling at its finest.


    I don't need experience to tell somebody that changing the shade of red on their car will make it faster do I?? Some things are just common sense...

    If somebody can at least attempt to explain why 2 power cords can sound different I'd like to hear it...
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,781
    edited February 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    Okay I took the time to read them all. All I got out of it was;

    flawed tests, the author even admitted it.

    Conjecture

    Slanted opinions and more slanted opinions

    Technical mumbo jumbo, he says it sounds better but shouldn't including tubes, analog recording gear, LP vs CDs etc. According to the author it sounds pleasing thus is invalid because the science doesn't back it up LOL!!! ROTFLMAO!!!

    I've heard van Alstine amps and they suck so I put no creedance in anything related to him.

    Of course with your completely closed mind, you refuse to even consider any of it. I'm not suprised.
    Oh yeah and the MIT test by van Alstine was a joke

    What was a joke? The fact that even MIT's own people couldn't identify their own wires? You got that right.

    . . . and unless I missed it because my eyes are now burning at 5:00 AM, not one word on power cords in any of those threads

    This thread seemed to have morphed into all cables, but here you go:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

    Let's see your counter evidence now. I'm sure you can find tons of positive DBT's on wire. Right?
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    moodyman wrote: »
    I don't need experience to tell somebody that changing the shade of red on their car will make it faster do I?? Some things are just common sense...
    That's good. At least you do have common sense.

    Now that the fact you have common sense is established, let me throw this out there. Could it possibly be that you have just not heard what a power cord can do? I don't know what kind of gear you have listened to throughout your life but I do know this. I went 36 years on this earth before I heard any discernible difference whatsoever concerning a power cord.

    So, keeping common sense intact, could it be even remotely possible that you just haven't heard a system worthy of revealing what a PC could possibly do for a system?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    Quit being a Troll William. If you don't believe they work, fine. Your point has been made. Anything else is just trolling the subject.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,781
    edited February 2010
    tonyb wrote: »
    You forgot to add God to your list. :rolleyes:

    Discussing religion is not allowed here. Have you ever read the rules?
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    Quit being a Troll William.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,781
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Quit being a Troll William. If you don't believe they work, fine. Your point has been made. Anything else is just trolling the subject.

    You are one of the biggest trolls on the forum. Obviously you have absolutely nothing to add to the discussion, so you call anyone who disagrees with you a troll and post your silly pictures. Doesn't do much for your argument.
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,781
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Quit being a Troll William.

    That really is all you have isn't it? Why not discuss the topic, instead of the posters?
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    I have already been through this with you William and if you would shut the F up for just a second, I was attempting to offer up my observances to our new member moodyman.

    Quit being a Troll William.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,781
    edited February 2010
    Quit being a Troll treitz3.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    Jesus dude, will you freakin' grow up. Damn.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,781
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Jesus dude, will you freakin' grow up. Damn.

    Your the one who only allows one side of the discussion. I wouldn't call that "grown up".

    You claim I should shut up, as I've already made my point. It appears you've already made your point as well, so why don't the same rules apply to you? I think you're a bit confused on who needs to grow up.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 about WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Why do you insist on continually trolling this subject? If you don't hear any difference, fine. You don't hear any difference. Point is, we do.
    This is the one and only point I have tried to make in this thread. That said, I am done here. If you would like to argue with yourself, so be it. Personally, I can't stand talking to a brick wall when it comes to life or audio.

    Good day.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited February 2010
    moodyman wrote: »
    The OP solicited opinions about power cord upgrades. LOL....So a person can only post if they believe one fully functional power cord can sound different than another fully functional power cord?? You don't like my opinion...?? Too bad.

    To the OP I say if you want to upgrade your power cord do so for looks or build quality. If you honestly hear a difference between 2 power cords one of them is broke...

    One should really only discuss what one has experienced. Your opinion has absolutely no basis because you've never tried it or have any interest in trying it.

    If I liked downhill skiing and reading about it on a forum and then someone asks if different composites in skis makes a difference and I say it's a bunch of marketing hype and bologna but I have no actual experience skiing let alone using different composite skis...............that would be ludicrous on my part to even offer my opinion.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2010
    xcapri79 wrote: »
    The belief that exotic power cords make a difference to audio quality is a "religion".
    People truly believe that they hear a difference due to the placebo effect.
    As long as they are happy fine. It is their decision.

    This makes any discussion a closed ended argument - so any direct comparison is already discounted by way of the 'placebo' effect.

    Nice - kinda goes against the whole spirit of scientific theory that is 'pontificated' by the AVSers' - which demand empirical evidence that....wait...means direct experimentation and observation...but wait...that will have to be discounted to the placebo effect.

    Seems air tight to me...case closed...cables can't make a difference.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,203
    edited February 2010
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Same reason I don't believe in bigfoot, palm reading, future telling, ghosts, and the easter bunny.

    There is not a single shred of evidence that these differences exist and plenty of explanations for why you think you hear the difference.

    I assume you spend countless hours on forums dedicated to the above vehemently discussing your point of view..........to the point of exhaustion (like you do here) or are we the only lucky forum that is graced by your presence?

    Why can't you state, once in every thread that comes up against you belief that, you simply don;t believe in it. Why must you constantly try and always have your POV, opinion be the only possible correct outcome?

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • moodyman
    moodyman Posts: 45
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    That's good. At least you do have common sense.

    Now that the fact you have common sense is established, let me throw this out there. Could it possibly be that you have just not heard what a power cord can do? I don't know what kind of gear you have listened to throughout your life but I do know this. I went 36 years on this earth before I heard any discernible difference whatsoever concerning a power cord.

    So, keeping common sense intact, could it be even remotely possible that you just haven't heard a system worthy of revealing what a PC could possibly do for a system?


    An audio power supply is designed to covert AC line voltage to a well regulated lower DC voltage as not to have an affect on the actual audio signal. It does this wether the AC input voltage is 95 volts or jumps to 125 volts. It does this wether you have 5 miles of copper wire between you and the substation or its 15 miles.It doesn this wether the wiring is is 60 degrees one day and 75 the next.

    And it does this if your using properly shielded $5 stock cord or a $750 super duper power cord.

    Its very well possible some people have heard differences..I don't mean to call anybody a liar. But I believe it wasn't because of a fancy power cord. Maybe it was because the cord was in a different position. Its a fact interconnects and speaker wire can pick up "interference" from power cords if they get close to parallel. Maybe the shielding on one of the cords was lousy. I can think of many plausible explanations why the sound would be different...but I can't think of one to explain how a power cord in itself can "improve" the sound out of your speakers.

    And I would think that a high end, expensive piece of audio equipment would have a top notch power supply that would be even more immune from AC line voltage variables....(which a supposedly exotic power cord would introduce)
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    So, keeping common sense intact, could it be even remotely possible that you just haven't heard a system worthy of revealing what a PC could possibly do for a system?
    You still haven't answered my question. I understand where you are coming from, believe me I do. The fact remains that you still have not answered my question. I'll ask it one more time. Could it be even remotely possible that you just haven't heard a system worthy of revealing what a PC could possibly do for a system?
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited February 2010
    If I used Frank Van Alstine's gear, I probably wouldn't hear a difference either. Frank also believes that using capacitors lower than their V rating changes their uF rating. :rolleyes:

    William or Capri, have you signed up for the power cord demo list?
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    moodyman wrote: »
    Am I reading this right?? Are you claiming after your power cord "burned" in it sounded better??
    moodyman wrote: »
    I tried to edit my post..but alas its to late. I shouldn't of quoted somebody from another thread and posted it here. For that I am sorry.

    But yes..I think the idea of power cord "burn-in" is utterly ridiculous.

    Your stalking is blatently obvious, you stalking skills are quite good. I accept your apology. Now off to the bozo list (since you are so new here that is the 'ignore list"). . . you've earned it well.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    Give him a chance Joe. He may have been influenced by the wrong crowd. I asked him a fair, honest and genuine question. Let's see how he responds first.
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    Objectivists have this fanatical almost religious zelot like need to prove that one must use accepted science to make a purchase for the improvement of their audio system and will go to great lengths to beat their point home.

    Subjectionist are open minded and content to try different things in their audio rig until they find what sounds best to them. We feel no need to fanatically prove what we hear, we mearly state our opinions based on EXPERIENCE and leave it at that.

    William I've read all your posted threads. I have an open mind but have found the "evidence" lacking in merit mainly because of the slanted way and in many cases flawed way the tests are run especially anything by van Alstine.

    No need to reply. I'm not convinced as MY experience tells me differently. You can post whatever you like, I'm content to use my ears as my guide through this audio journey.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Give him a chance Joe. He may have been influenced by the wrong crowd. I asked him a fair, honest and genuine question. Let's see how he responds first.

    I've given him many chances Tom. He's got a hard-on for me even though I tried to help him when he first came aboard. F&ck me once shame on you, f&ck me many more times shame on me. That's my flavor of the day and I'm done with that dude.

    Hey my IL is growing longer and bigger. I might catch up to Shack or George one day!:D
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited February 2010
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    You are one of the biggest trolls on the forum. Obviously you have absolutely nothing to add to the discussion, so you call anyone who disagrees with you a troll and post your silly pictures. Doesn't do much for your argument.

    LOL!!! Tom is the last person to call a troll as he asks legitimate questions, adds tons of experience to discussions, is very level headed and rarely gets involved in arguments.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    Let me see if I can establish a genuine audio discussion with him. I just asked him one question that should be an easy yes or no. We'll see. ;)
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 19,185
    edited February 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    LOL!!! Tom is the last person to call a troll as he asks legitimate questions, adds tons of experience to discussions, is very level headed and rarely gets involved in arguments.
    Thank you Joe, I'll accept the compliment. Rock on! :D
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • moodyman
    moodyman Posts: 45
    edited February 2010
    treitz3 wrote: »
    You still haven't answered my question. I understand where you are coming from, believe me I do. The fact remains that you still have not answered my question. I'll ask it one more time. Could it be even remotely possible that you just haven't heard a system worthy of revealing what a PC could possibly do for a system?

    I thought I did anwser it. NO. If I don't think PC improvements to audio are real to begin with then how "revealing" a system is is irrelavent. Along those same lines..if a system was revealing enough that it allowed you to hear audible differences from a different power cord I'd imagine you'd hear differences as your AC line voltage varied throughout the day, when the powerlines were cold on a winter day or hot on a summer,etc... Anyway..you get my drift.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,990
    edited February 2010
    WilliamM2 wrote: »
    Discussing religion is not allowed here. Have you ever read the rules?

    Hmmm....how can something thats never been proven to exist...exist then ?

    I guess all those millions of people who believe in a non-existant figure must all be wrong then. Doesn't make them right,but also doesn't make them wrong either. If you claim, PC's don't make a difference,then you must prove that also. One member has been gracious enough to offer up a PC to try, I don't think I saw your name on the list yet. With no experience, no willingness to try different cords, you chastise those who do, seems logical, if your 3 years old. Brings up another question,is there an age limit to join club polk?
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  • moodyman
    moodyman Posts: 45
    edited February 2010
    heiney9 wrote: »
    One should really only discuss what one has experienced. Your opinion has absolutely no basis because you've never tried it or have any interest in trying it.

    If I liked downhill skiing and reading about it on a forum and then someone asks if different composites in skis makes a difference and I say it's a bunch of marketing hype and bologna but I have no actual experience skiing let alone using different composite skis...............that would be ludicrous on my part to even offer my opinion.

    H9

    wrong...one can easily hypothesize (sp?) and make a reasonable arguement for or against with the example you provided. I.e. Composites will affect the flexability of the ski which affect how the ski responds to uneven snow surfaces, etc....

    Please give theory on why 2 properly shielded ,fully functioning powercords would be audibly discernible but varying AC line voltage, temperature, etc..are not.

    Anyway..I gotta log for the day...maybe pick this up later. again..I don't mean to knock anybody if they really think they hear a difference..

    I'm gonna watch "Whip It" tonight...hope its good...

    And just for the record..I DID update my power cables on my amps and subwoofer. I spent about $60 per cables. I did cuz my cords were visible and I wanted something that looked neat and had a nice build to it.
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