Roger Russell FOS or legit?
Comments
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My EXPERIENCE on gage is simple: BIGGER IS BETTER!!
No, no, no. Pick the tool for the job. Goes for the other size issue as well... :cool: -
As I pointed out previously, Roger Russell said so himself in following post.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#cardas
Yes, I am very well aware of that, I understand his point of view. I might have copied too much of the quote, I said true to the part where he could have omitted the part of the Cardas, but that goes against the reason why he used it: marketing. I do agree that the calls for hypocrite are way off but some people just don't want to acknowledge things that void their argument. -
You got to be kidding me :rolleyes:As I pointed out previously, Roger Russell said so himself in following post.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#cardas
Somehow this was turned around into calling him a hypocrite, which is certainly uncalled for. When a rational scientific argument can't be made, personal attacks and name-calling become the argument of last resort.
That was my argument, that in putting in Cardas wire in his speakers after he said they make no difference is the pinnacle of hypocrisy IMO not only is he going against everything he supposedly believes in by doing so but if he actually believes this then he is intentionally misleading the public by endorsing the use of such wire.Yes, I am very well aware of that, I understand his point of view. I might have copied too much of the quote, I said true to the part where he could have omitted the part of the Cardas, but that goes against the reason why he used it: marketing. I do agree that the calls for hypocrite are way off but some people just don't want to acknowledge things that void their argument.
Saying one thing then doing the exact opposite is IMHO being a hyprocrite.
If he listed his speakers as having plain lamp cord for wiring then offered the option of thousands of dollars of cardas wiring for those that believe it would be different,
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this Sami
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all
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True, but he also doesn't tell anyone the Cardas in his speakers makes a difference. That would have made him hypocrite. It's marketing and in this country it sells.
Of course he wouldn't say that because he would be negating his life-long pursuit that cables of the same guage & quality copper sound the same. The fact that he used the Cardas wire as you say for marketing purposes not only makes him a hypocrite but a charlatan as well. -
As I pointed out previously, Roger Russell said so himself in following post.
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#cardas
Somehow this was turned around into calling him a hypocrite, which is certainly uncalled for. When a rational scientific argument can't be made, personal attacks and name-calling become the argument of last resort.
Enough of your whining about "name-calling being the argument of last resort." He used Cardas wire in his speakers. That makes him a hypocrite. That he used Cardas wire for marketing purposes makes him a charlatan.
Wake up and smell the roses.
BTW; there is no need to apologize for your rig. It is your rig and what you enjoy. I just happen to think you could get better performance out of it if you were to finish it off and squeeze more performance out of it by employing some better ICs and speaker wire. -
Yes your right it's a conspiracy I voted 12 times :rolleyes:
Reading comprehension problems? I wasn't the one claiming a conspiracy, Inspiredsports was. Maybe you missed the quote. -
hearingimpared wrote: »The fact that he used the Cardas wire as you say for marketing purposes not only makes him a hypocrite but a charlatan as well.
Sorry but I have to call BS on that. There are people who buy brand name drugs because they believe generics aren't as good. It's a business for him, not a hobby so putting in brand name cable instead of generic does not make him hypocrite and far from charlatan, he is just trying to give his potential customers what they want. His explanation is plain and simple yet for some it seems very hard to understand. I give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just don't want to understand it because his beliefs differ from yours.
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Are you really that insecure? Even though the poll is in your favor? I don't know about the genius voters, but I do know that DK has more than one account, maybe you all do.
I read it as inspiredsports being facetious. DK has more integrity than that, a lot more than Rodger Russell has when it comes to use of wire to sell his product. -
Not everyone wants to read.
Unlike you, we actually want to try different cables to form our own opinion. I would suggest you do the same and until you do, please STFU!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
ObviouslyNot everyone wants to read. or attempt to try new things.
I would put you on my IG list except it would make you feel important and special and I would hate to give you that impression.
REGARDS SNOWWell, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all -
Sorry but I have to call BS on that. There are people who buy brand name drugs because they believe generics aren't as good. It's a business for him, not a hobby so putting in brand name cable instead of generic does not make him hypocrite and far from charlatan, he is just trying to give his potential customers what they want. His explanation is plain and simple yet for some it seems very hard to understand. I give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just don't want to understand it because his beliefs differ from yours.
That makes him a charlatan. Why doesn't he say, "trust me Cardas or any other high end wire isn't going to make a difference and it will save you a few more dollars?" "I've spent years researching this and plain copper wire sounds the same as I have pointed out in my paper."
BTW; there are many brand name drugs that are leaps and bounds better than their generics. A simple example is to ask any doctor which aspirin to use for the prevention and aiding in a heart attack. You will find they recommend Bayer. -
Not everyone wants to read.
No some don't but I love to read and found that experience is far more rewarding than reading someone elses experience. This goes for everything in my life not just audio. -
The real vote might be a lot closer, perhaps close to being a tie?!
Interesting. True science isn't decided by a vote anyways.
Votes happen in religious and political matters.
Based on some of the more recent posts, at least, I see that rationality is entering into this discussion.
Let me also apologize for owning entry level equipment.
I don't think you should ever apologize for your equipment. But I do think you need to open your mind to the possibility that you don't have the best ability to accurately make certain judgments.VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
I like hot dogs with saurkraut.....
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hearingimpared wrote: »I read it as inspiredsports being facetious. DK has more integrity than that, a lot more than Rodger Russell has when it comes to use of wire to sell his product.
Yep, my attempt at humor must have failed if most didn't get the point..
But in my opinion, statistically, that 75/25 ratio that held so consistently for the first 3 days should not have changed so dramatically in a day.VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
hearingimpared wrote: »That makes him a charlatan.
No, the charlatans would be the ones selling cables and telling they make a difference. He does not tell people his speakers sound so good because he uses Cardas, does he?hearingimpared wrote: »BTW; there are many brand name drugs that are leaps and bounds better than their generics. A simple example is to ask any doctor which aspirin to use for the prevention and aiding in a heart attack. You will find they recommend Bayer.
Is that your belief or has that actually been proven? If the chemical compounds are the same, I find it hard to believe a brand name works any better than generic. Bayer might be recommended by doctors because Aspirin really is the brand name for acetylsalicylic acid, and Bayer developed it. Doctors might also recommend Advil or Tylenol (brands), instead of ibuprofen or paracetamol (the actual drug names). -
All of these arguments, either for or against RR, would lead one to believe the only thing he ever wrote or accomplished in the audio field is his opinion on cables. That seems to be a rather small measure by which to judge him.
cubdogShuguang Classic S8MK
Emotiva XDA-2
Bel Canto M300 mono blocks
Bel Canto DAC 1.5
Squeezebox Touch
Sony SS-M7
A/D/S L710 -
No, the charlatans would be the ones selling cables and telling they make a difference. He does not tell people his speakers sound so good because he uses Cardas, does he?
Have you ever tried different cables? They do make a world of difference. I did not believe it myself until I heard it with my OWN ears. In reference to RR, if they truly make no difference, then why use them in the first place. As pointed out already, the cable he chose is enormously expensive and he uses that fact as a selling point. Tell NASA that the kind of wire makes no difference, or anyone else for that matter that need wire designed for a SPECIFIC task. Wires are made to specification depending upon their intended use. Yes, they and how they are constructed matter in home audio.Is that your belief or has that actually been proven? If the chemical compounds are the same, I find it hard to believe a brand name works any better than generic. Bayer might be recommended by doctors because Aspirin really is the brand name for acetylsalicylic acid, and Bayer developed it. Doctors might also recommend Advil or Tylenol (brands), instead of ibuprofen or paracetamol (the actual drug names).
This has been proven to be true over several decades of research. My wife is a Pharmacist and KNOWS her **** on this matter. Heart medications are and area of particular passion for her. Bayer is even recommended while a heart attack is in progress to lessen the severity.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Have you ever tried different cables?
Yes but whether I believe in them is irrelevant to the discussion whether RR is charlatan and my point really was that if someone was a charlatan it would be cable salesman (if someone was a charlatan, note that I am not calling anyone that).A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception.
Where exactly is the pretence or deception in RR using Cardas? He doesn't claim that Cardas makes a difference in his speakers, does he?nooshinjohn wrote: »This has been proven to be true over several decades of research. My wife is a Pharmacist and KNOWS her **** on this matter. Heart medications are and area of particular passion for her. Bayer is even recommended while a heart attack is in progress to lessen the severity.
Just to clarify, did you understand that I was questioning the effectiveness of Bayer Aspirin for heart disease? I was questioning whether it is more effective than a generic acetylsalicylic acid, or any other brand name drug over exactly same compound of generic drug. -
This is true, the origin of the poll was rather mean-spirited and quite frankly I am surprised the moderators let it stand.
You're still here too....what's your point?CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
No, the charlatans would be the ones selling cables and telling they make a difference. He does not tell people his speakers sound so good because he uses Cardas, does he?
Is that your belief or has that actually been proven? If the chemical compounds are the same, I find it hard to believe a brand name works any better than generic. Bayer might be recommended by doctors because Aspirin really is the brand name for acetylsalicylic acid, and Bayer developed it. Doctors might also recommend Advil or Tylenol (brands), instead of ibuprofen or paracetamol (the actual drug names).
The brand name drugs are tested with all the ingredients in the original product. Those ingredients plus the active ingredients are what can make the difference. Some brand names do work better than generics as generics can have any inactive ingredient in it that would inhibit absorption into your system. I got this information from my relatives that are MDs. They have no stake in having me spend more money on names brands quite the contrary.
I have no scientific data to back this up just the experience of my cousins whom I trust. -
I can't go either way. His **** goes both ways. Old ladies winding transformers, wire the doesn't matter, amps that out perform others????? I disagree with the wiring of speakers, but revel in his designs of the products he delivers. I'm stuck!?!?!?Testing
Testing
Testing -
You stated it perfectly Sami in your quote about charlatons. RR is using Cardas wire, which he has denounced, as a selling point for his speakers. That has charlaton written all over it.
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hearingimpared wrote: »Some brand names do work better than generics as generics can have any inactive ingredient in it that would inhibit absorption into your system.
I'd rather believe FDA than your MD friends:
http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/EmergencyPreparedness/BioterrorismandDrugPreparedness/ucm134444.htm -
Where exactly is the pretence or deception in RR using Cardas? He doesn't claim that Cardas makes a difference in his speakers, does he?
The mere fact that he uses them in the first place is a de-facto statement that they do make a difference. If they did not then what's the point?Just to clarify, did you understand that I was questioning the effectiveness of Bayer Aspirin for heart disease? I was questioning whether it is more effective than a generic acetylsalicylic acid, or any other brand name drug over exactly same compound of generic drug.
Yes, I understood that you were questioning the effectiveness for heart disease, and yes, it is more effective that any other brand. Bayer's formula is proprietary to them and them alone. There are various different compounds within that drug class, but only Bayer can make the claim.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
I'd rather believe FDA than your MD friends:
Correction relatives.
So be it. I happen to trust the relatives in the trenches. -
hearingimpared wrote: »You stated it perfectly Sami in your quote about charlatons. RR is using Cardas wire which he has denounced as a selling point for his speakers. That has charlaton written all over it.
No, it doesn't until you show either pretence or deception. I don't believe either one exists in this case. You could make a very weak point for pretence but it doesn't really hold. -
RR states that wires make no difference, then he picks the most expensive wires out there for his speakers... sounds like pretence and deception to me.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »RR states that wires make no difference, then he picks the most expensive wires out there for his speakers... sounds like pretence and deception to me.
Plus he is contradicting his own writings and findings.
