Anybody else read this review?

steveinaz

and there it is, brought to you by the Shack-master. +10 my good man.

Cogito

inspiredsports wrote: »

I guess you missed my post #151 directly to you late last night. Just chill a bit and get to know the terrain before you start throwing bombs.

Happy listening!

No, I read your post and have no issues with it whatsoever.

The only issue I have at all is that I posted a comment on a particular issue and was immediately bombarded with comments about trolling, hearing impairments, stirring the pot, noobs and whatnot. There was no "bomb throwing" in anything I said. Controversial? Sure! Big deal, the whole hobby is filled with controversy. As such, does it not make sense to discuss these topics without resorting to name calling and simply dismissing any argument that may not be shared? I respect other's opinions, but have little tolerance for those disrespect me.

Happy Listening!

inspiredsports

Cogito wrote: »

No, I read your post and have no issues with it whatsoever.

The only issue I have at all is that I posted a comment on a particular issue and was immediately bombarded with comments about trolling, hearing impairments, stirring the pot, noobs and whatnot. There was no "bomb throwing" in anything I said. Controversial? Sure! Big deal, the whole hobby is filled with controversy. As such, does it not make sense to discuss these topics without resorting to name calling and simply dismissing any argument that may not be shared? I respect other's opinions, but have little tolerance for those disrespect me.

Happy Listening!

I don't believe I did any name calling . . . yet.

But from my way of thinking, with so few posts, your percentage of "controversial" posts is way high. You can remain defensive, that's fine by me.

I stand by my last friendly, advice, "Just chill a bit and get to know the terrain before you start throwing bombs." Hang in here, you might actually learn something.

Systems

Cogito wrote: »

Oh, I haven't tried that yet!

And I wouldn't if you value your CD collection.It was the brainchild of a magazine scribe many moons ago and IIRC resulted in the deterioration of the disc's surface.

Systems

inspiredsports wrote: »

But from my way of thinking, with so few posts, your percentage of "controversial" posts is way high. You can remain defensive, that's fine by me.

I stand by my last friendly, advice, "Just chill a bit and get to know the terrain before you start throwing bombs." Hang in here, you might actually learn something.

He did get his boots pissed on as soon as he walked through the door which might put one on the defensive,but yeah a less aggressive defensive posture might work better in the long run should one even care to stick around for awhile.

Cpyder

BlueFox wrote: »

This is one of the stupidest things I have ever read (at least tonight). You just made up a completely fictional scenario with fictional results, and you want to know why your fictional results occurred

But wait. Examples like this do happen all of the time. A-Waaa??

I don't see anything fictional about a scenario such as this. It could very easily be duplicated. You said the results were fictional too - Does that imply that you think you could partake in this exact experiment I just laid out and you would be able to tell which amp is which? Because if you can't tell the difference then you cannot say these results are fictional, right? Isn't that how logic works. I forget sometimes.

Uh-oh. Just an inside tip before we begin. This would be a blind tests. And those are bad right? I mean, we can use them in every other field of study on earth, ranging from video comparisons, medicines, physics experiments, and even the Pepsi-challenge, but not in high-end audio. At least, this is what someone of your mental capacity would argue, correct?

Cogito wrote: »

So in other words, we should forgo all objective criteria? I do agree, "how it sounds" is the MOST important factor above all. And yes, there are certainly differences in the way equipment "sounds". Some quite subtle and with loudspeakers, "night and day" obvious. But if you are going to tell me that putting a couple little wooden disks on top of your amplifier, using silver wired interconects rather than copper and putting the green marker to the edge of the CD suddenly opened up the sounstage, dramatically increased the dynamics and caused you to faint with orgasmic delight (Okay, I was a bit overboard on that one LOL), is it unreasonable for me to ask HOW this is happening and possibly demonstrate the differences (Double blind tests work well here)?

Some here would argue yes - you cannot ask how this is happening because any form of testing would conflict with their own opinions that magic markers, extremely expensive speaker wire, exotic power cords and the like do make a drastic difference. Put science on the back burner, then you can say whatever the hell you want!

Cogito wrote: »

If ya can't debate the topic, you simply dismiss it. It's okay, we understand. Nobody's opinion or experience holds any merit unless it yours. After all, it's much easier to argue when everyone agrees. However, it makes for a boring conversation.

Happy listening!

Come on buddy, get with it. If you don't share the exact same thought most of the loudest people here share, you are stirring the pot, trolling, starting a flame war, etc. The list goes on. Your slight differences are not tolerated here. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. I will not let open debate, intelligent conversations, science, and conflicting viewpoints exist on a public forum! Dammit man!

concealer404

^I have a challenge for you.

You can come to my place, and configure any of my gear in any combination that you want, and i'll tell you exactly what you put together. I'll be blindfolded the whole time.

F1nut

Cogito wrote: »

I see how it is... If someone doesn't agree with you, we call them names and TRY to demean them rather than debating the subject at hand and making a sensible argument. It's okay though, as I see it in politics all the time. Either be good little sheep, or it's off to the slaughter house.

You started with an inflammatory post, which you now fan by wanting to debate and argue about. That is trolling, plain and simple. So yeah, you're off to the slaughter house.

reeltrouble1

concealer404 wrote: »

I have a challenge for you.

You can come to my place, I'll be blindfolded the whole time.

sounds yummy.......;)

Good Morning Jesse........:D

RT1

tonyb

shack wrote: »

Same song - different verse. :rolleyes:

New posters show up to help us poor misguided "audio junkies" understand the nuances of this hobby that we have somehow overlooked in our audio journey...armed with vast internet resources to prove the error of our ways.

Have I mentioned that "I don't care"?

Carry on.

That pretty much nails it.

vc69

Yeah... this thread is off of my subscribed list.

Good day to all!

TroyD

Cogito wrote: »

So in other words, we should forgo all objective criteria? I do agree, "how it sounds" is the MOST important factor above all. And yes, there are certainly differences in the way equipment "sounds". Some quite subtle and with loudspeakers, "night and day" obvious. But if you are going to tell me that putting a couple little wooden disks on top of your amplifier, using silver wired interconects rather than copper and putting the green marker to the edge of the CD suddenly opened up the sounstage, dramatically increased the dynamics and caused you to faint with orgasmic delight (Okay, I was a bit overboard on that one LOL), is it unreasonable for me to ask HOW this is happening and possibly demonstrate the differences (Double blind tests work well here)?

And herein lies the heart of the issue that will NEVER EVER be resolved.

On the one hand, you have folks that say, essentially:

1. If it's audible, there has to be a corresponding measurement.....essentially, if you can't show me a chart, graph or measurement, it didn't happen....they also believe in blind testing.

2. Other folks will say that, you know what? I can't quantify it (nor do I really care to) but I hear a difference...and that is all that is important.

Now, I align myself MORE in category 2 (I do carry a healthy dose of skepticisim about most things)....and here is the deal. If I hear it, I like it and can afford it....I'll buy it. It's not for anyone in Category 1 to tell me any different.

If you read through these posts....you have, essentially, the Cat 1 folks telling us how misguided we are. Maybe they don't hear things that others do....hey, that's great! You get off cheap! But, here is the thing...if others do, what the f*ck do you care? I mean, for the most part, we aren't bothering you guys. We aren't the ones running out telling people how misguided they are. No, we are a happy peaceful bunch, for the most part, until some **** comes along and starts spewing thier brand of juju. 99 times out of 100, these folks do NOT have the bredth of experience to make such judgements for anyone but themselves. For example jinjumble or whatever he calls himself, has annointed himself as an expert...well, ok, he can have is opinion...but, again, his span of experience is, in my view limited. If he's happy with his Crown amps, hey, great for him. However, if he asks or makes a statement...and I say, well, I think they sound like **** compared to mine....well, he frigging asked. I didn't persue him trying to persuade him otherwise.

So, essentially, if you are a Cat 1 person, GREAT!! Go enjoy your gear. Now, let US, persue our hobby in a manner that WE enjoy as well. We like to talk about it, you can join in, ask questions what not....but don't tell me that I don't hear something. It's VERY possible that we just see/hear things differently. I PROMISE you, that will work to everyone's satisfaction.

BDT

concealer404

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

sounds yummy.......;)

Good Morning Jesse........:D

RT1

Maybe i should have worded that differently. You have to have more posts than me to be awarded THAT scenario.

F1nut

Cogito wrote: »

The Placebo effect has been extensively studied and a known fact and very much a part of "human biology". Do you deny this?

Cpyder wrote:

Some here would argue yes - you cannot ask how this is happening because any form of testing would conflict with their own opinions that magic markers, extremely expensive speaker wire, exotic power cords and the like do make a drastic difference. Put science on the back burner, then you can say whatever the hell you want!

Since you two are so hopped up on the science end I'm surprised you aren't aware of the nocebo effect. You know, folks like you who are victims of a pessimistic belief and expectation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo

F1nut

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Good Morning Jesse........:D

RT1

Good Morning Ted. :cool:

reeltrouble1

As far as Placebo goes I would bet that if Mr. Goody was buried deep inside someone it would be quite a reality revealing revelation,,,,,,,,,,,,

Nocebo=Anti Hi-Fi Audio Insurgent, similar to a sand gnat on a firefly's butt you bite we lite.

Eight years now and the echo's just keep yelping the same song.

Oh and good morning Troy. OK, afternoon.

RT1

WilliamM2

F1nut wrote: »

Since you two are so hopped up on the science end I'm surprised you aren't aware of the nocebo effect. You know, folks like you who are victims of a pessimistic belief and expectation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo

Maybe you should read the article a little closer. Nocebo is when the participant has a negative reaction to the placebo, in medical trials it means he feels worse, and his symtoms get worse. This is more comparable to someone thinking the cable makes the sound worse, even though it hasn't been changed at all.

It's still all in his head.

kp1706

danz1906 wrote: »

Agreed, 6moons reviews are the best-Stereo Times good also.

This is what I love about this forum. I never heard of 6moons until now. Awesome site. Thanks for the info.:D

reeltrouble1

or **** depending upon the cheek angle..........

So if Placebo makes you think something is there that is not there
then it follows if something that is there you will also think it is not there
therefore...when we are already there we are actually nowhere

RT1

F1nut

Maybe you should read the article a little closer.

Why?

It's still all in his head.

As I stated, a pessimistic belief and expectation.

hearingimpared

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

or **** depending upon the cheek angle..........

So if Placebo makes you think something is there that is not there
then it follows if something that is there you will also think it is not there
therefore...when we are already there we are actually nowhere

RT1

Gold Jerry Gold!

reeltrouble1

Good Morning Joe....if figure it still is morning for you and Jesse........:D

RT1

hearingimpared

Good morn er ah afternoon Ted. It's good to see the good 'ol boys (you, Jesse and Troy) posting in the same thread again. Good day to you too Jess and Troy.

A lot of entertainment in this one.

Cogito

inspiredsports wrote: »

I don't believe I did any name calling . . . yet.

But from my way of thinking, with so few posts, your percentage of "controversial" posts is way high. You can remain defensive, that's fine by me.

Okay, I'll bite... How many posts at at what percentage would you suggest? You seem to be a reasonable person, do you not see how rediculous that is?

concealer404

Cogito wrote: »

Okay, I'll bite... How many posts at at what percentage would you suggest? You seem to be a reasonable person, do you not see how rediculous that is?

It's not really that....

It's more the knee-jerk reaction that comes when someone joins, then immediately jumps into a discussion such as this, with a polar opposite opinion than what is commonly accepted, as strongly as you've tended to do.

Here's my suggestion: It might make more sense to you what "our problem" is if you search the word "Emotiva" on these forums. You'll see new people coming out of the woodwork everywhere, and tenaciously hanging on to the idea that their darling company is the best in the world, and all other opinions are invalid because we don't have eye-searing blue leds all over our gear.

The debate of science vs. what the majority of the people hear is really the same thing.

I don't really let this debate bother me. I hear a difference, sometimes small, oftentimes huge, and i couldn't care less if there was scientific reason for it, and couldn't care less if anyone else can hear it. It's the people that tell me that i'm wrong because there's no scientific reason that REALLY get under my skin.

Cogito

shack wrote: »

Same song - different verse. :rolleyes:


Have I mentioned that "I don't care"?

Carry on.

And yet you managed to post on the subject. Of course, you added nothing of substance. Are you a "green CD edge" person? I've been accused of being "closed minded". Guess what, it seems to go both ways, doesn't it?


For the record, I'm enjoying this. I know you are sharing in my delight...

shack

Cogito wrote: »

And yet you managed to post on the subject. Of course, you added nothing of substance. Are you a "green CD edge" person? I've been accused of being "closed minded". Guess what, it seems to go both ways, doesn't it?


For the record, I'm enjoying this. I know you are sharing in my delight...

Actually, I've posted NOTHING on the subject...substantive or otherwise. I merely posted in the thread.

I’ve never said I wasn't closed minded. In fact I am. I don't care what you or anyone else would like to inform me of, especially in terms of this hobby...and have stated that very succinctly on several occasions. If I need opinions or questions answered...I'll ask. Otherwise...I'm good. If I change my mind on something it is because of personal experience…not because of what I’ve read or been told. It works for me.

Feel free to enjoy what you will…

Cogito

concealer404 wrote: »

It's not really that....

It's more the knee-jerk reaction that comes when someone joins, then immediately jumps into a discussion such as this, with a polar opposite opinion than what is commonly accepted, as strongly as you've tended to do.

Here's my suggestion: It might make more sense to you what "our problem" is if you search the word "Emotiva" on these forums. You'll see new people coming out of the woodwork everywhere, and tenaciously hanging on to the idea that their darling company is the best in the world, and all other opinions are invalid because we don't have eye-searing blue leds all over our gear.

The debate of science vs. what the majority of the people hear is really the same thing.

I don't really let this debate bother me. I hear a difference, sometimes small, oftentimes huge, and i couldn't care less if there was scientific reason for it, and couldn't care less if anyone else can hear it. It's the people that tell me that i'm wrong because there's no scientific reason that REALLY get under my skin.

There was nothing knee-jerk about it. I've been readin these forums for quite some time and just recently decided to join after my recent purchase of a pair of Monitor 70s. I was simply responding to a remark about the methodology of equipment reviews of a particular outfit. And since at least one particular person disagreed with me, a plethera of insults came flowing in. Some subtle, some obvious.

If you folks can't handle a difference of opinion on a VERY subjective topic, then perhaps a "forum" site is not the right place to be hanging out in?

The fact remains that much of what we perceive can be backed up with science. Also, much of what we "think" we perceive can also be explained. Let's not forget that scientific measurements can often quantify what we hear, especially with speakers. Anyway, I have no doubt you "hear" the difference, I guess in the end it doesn't matter as long as you are enjoying the results. No scientific measurement will ever prove otherwise. I'm cool with that.

As for Emotiva... Well, I'll stick with my "vintage" ADCOM gear for now. Blue LEDs, like laser beams burning my eyes out...

Cogito

shack wrote: »

Actually, I've posted NOTHING on the subject...substantive or otherwise. I merely posted in the thread.

I’ve never said I wasn't closed minded. In fact I am. I don't care what you or anyone else would like to inform me of, especially in terms of this hobby...and have stated that very succinctly on several occasions. If I need opinions or questions answered...I'll ask. Otherwise...I'm good. If I change my mind on something it is because of personal experience…not because of what I’ve read or been told. It works for me.

Feel free to enjoy what you will…

Well, a good percentage of the population believed the earth was flat until proved otherwise by scientific method. Closed minds never learn anything new... Not something to brag about.

Cpyder

WilliamM2 wrote: »

It's still all in his head.

Agreed. In either case, placebo or nocebo, the same principle is at hand. No change to a system is made, yet a reaciton is observed. And don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing either one. I've read many examples of people healing faster, etc through placebo medicines. The mind is extremely powerful! But why do you have to spend thousands of dollars on snake oil cables if it's in your head. Can't I pretend to hear something for cheaper?

concealer404 wrote: »

The debate of science vs. what the majority of the people hear is really the same thing.

So when people where coloring like kids at preschool on their cds and hearing differences, science was in agreement? No. Never does popular opinion dictate scientific evidence. That is never the case. If that were true, the earth is still flat and geocentric.