Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

For what? Why don't you list these identical measuring speakers? But we will need more information. Do they measure the same at all volume levels? Same on axis and off? Same dispersion characteristics? Same distortion levels at all volumes?

Yes sir, but different characteristics like a Stradivarius, but you would know better.
Thanks
Still waiting for an intelligent reply.
Ben

ben62670

OK even simpler for guys that don't get it.

Statement by statement for simple folk.

Two amps with the same figures all across the board like my beloved JVC(before I got serious about this hobby) +- .5db from 5hz to 50khz with identical distortion figures at the same watts.

Do both amps sound the same.

Thanks again.
Shooting fish in a barrel is tiresome.

Again please please please say something moderately intelligent.
Ben

ben62670

Please please please say something smart.

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

Yes sir, but different characteristics like a Stradivarius, but you would know better.
Thanks
Still waiting for an intelligent reply.
Ben

What speakers are they? I've never seen any two speakers that measure identically on all those things. Or are these just imaginary speakers, to support your imaginary differences in cables?

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

Please please please say something smart.

You first.

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

What speakers are they? I've never seen any two speakers that measure identically on all those things. Or are these just imaginary speakers, to support your imaginary differences in cables?

Is it that hard to find a pair of speaker that have the same frequency response? Do you not realize that two speakers that share the same FR are different?
Thanks for supporting my statements.
Ben

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

You first.

OK sweet William please respond to two amps with the same specks...

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

OK sweet William please respond to two amps with the same specks...

What are specks?

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

Is it that hard to find a pair of speaker that have the same frequency response? Do you not realize that two speakers that share the same FR are different?
Thanks for supporting my statements.
Ben

Find me two speakers that measure the same in all the specs I listed, and make sure they are +-1 from 35hz to 20Khz. Good luck.

mrbigbluelight

There's an old saying that comes to mind reading this thread:

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed **** is Queen" .

So .... wait a second, I may have that wrong. Let me check wikipedia, the All-Knowing Source for some ...... okay, lessee...... Ooops ! My bad !

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed jack is King".


And, yes, I'm entertaining myself again. Have to. Speaking of which, here's a picture (guess what it is):

That's right, it's a .........

Fourier Transformer

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program, "Spearkers".

ben62670

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Find me two speakers that measure the same in all the specs I listed, and make sure they are +-1 from 35hz to 20Khz. Good luck.

OK are you aying that two speakers that measure the same in frequency repsonse sound the same?
I am simple so please keep it kind.
Thanks
Ben

Systems

mrbigbluelight wrote: »

Speaking of which, here's a picture (guess what it is):

That's right, it's a .........

Fourier Transformer

I disagree and think your science is flawed.That is clearly a Hilbert Transform...er.;)

ben62670

Do I see a poweer button in my future, or leads to such a thing;)
Cheers
Ben:)

Systems

ben62670 wrote: »

Do I see a poweer button in my future, or leads to such a thing;)
Cheers
Ben:)

Oh ****,sorry my forgots.:oIt's still sitting on my cabinet, I will send the next day or two.

ben62670

GV#27 wrote: »

Oh ****,sorry my forgots.:oIt's still sitting on my cabinet, I will send the next day or two.

Cool cool. Let me know if there is anything I can do for you.
Ben

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

OK are you aying that two speakers that measure the same in frequency repsonse sound the same?
I am simple so please keep it kind.
Thanks
Ben

There are many more measurements to speakers than just frequency response, as I pointed out several posts ago. There is also interaction with the room, which would vary with the size of the cabinet, and placement of the drivers in the cabinet. So no, I don't think two speakers would sound the same just because they have the same frequency response.

What exactly does this have to do with speaker wires? Was anyone on this thread claiming that all speakers sound the same?

ben62670

OK I'll simplify it even more. Two speakers, or amps that measure the same scientifically in the same exact environment are going to sound the same?

ben62670

Please say something intelligent. I do enjoy your views on technology, but your cable debates are very boring.

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

OK I'll simplify it even more. Two speakers, or amps that measure the same scientifically in the same exact environment are going to sound the same?

I'll ask again, what do imaginary speakers have to do with speaker cables?

ben62670

OK I'll dumb it down a bit. I am content that I hear a difference in cables, and you don't. I do understand that. The point that I am trying to reach (which I thought I have explained clearly enough)is that even though two different components in the audio reproductive chain seem like a scientifically match measurement wise they do not sound the same.
Clear enough for ya?

WilliamM2

ben62670 wrote: »

OK I'll dumb it down a bit. I am content that I hear a difference in cables, and you don't. I do understand that. The point that I am trying to reach (which I thought I have explained clearly enough)is that even though two different components in the audio reproductive chain seem like a scientifically match measurement wise they do not sound the same.
Clear enough for ya?

Clear as can be, except you have yet to show two components or speakers that measure the same in all aspects.

vonnie123

I would chime in that sometimes even the same brand and model of speakers do not sound identical independent of one another. I actually have two sets of Polk RM towers using the same type of speaker cables which fit that bill.

ben62670

I am very disappointed. I came down to see your reply, but there is nothing there:(
Come on now amps are so close scientifically, and yet guys like you don't acknowledge that they can sound different

comfortablycurt

I've got something here that might help with the "cables make a difference" point of view.

I'm a guitar player, I've been playing for about 10 years now. These days I play mostly acoustic, but up until about 2 years ago I played electric almost all the time.

My electric rig isn't exactly what you'd call entry level...I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 4000 dollars invested in it. It's very capable of resolving the slightest little miniscule nuances.

I'm running a Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Solo amp head, with the matching Mesa/Boogie Rectifier 4x12 cabinet. This is an excellent sounding, very desirable guitar amp. I also have an original '69 Fender Stratocaster, a Fender American Deluxe Fat Strat and several other guitars, all of which are very capable instruments.

About 3 years ago, I was getting the itch to upgrade something in my electric rig, because I hadn't in quite a while. There wasn't really much I could upgrade to as far as the amp goes without spending upwards of 10,000 dollars...all of my guitars were, and still are, just fine. I decided I'd get some higher quality aftermarket cables to replace the basic 12.99 cables I was using at the time.

I tried several different cables, and noticed huge differences between each one. The first one I tried was a Dimarzio Steve Vai signature cable. I got two of the cables, one between my guitar and amp head, one between the amp head and the 4x12 cabinet. I turned the amp on, let the ole tubes warm up...and started playing. Immediately I noticed that when playing rhythm parts on the clean channel with a lot of chord usage the sound got really muddy. Progressions between chords were a lot duller and less defined, the individual strings within the chords were harder to pick out from the rest.

Moving onto some overdriven lead parts, I actually found some big improvements. The sustain was vastly improved, bends came through a lot smoother and more defined, fast tremolo picking sounded a lot less choppy than it did before. I was happy in those respects.

After a few weeks went by, the muddy sounding rhythms were really bugging me, so I decided to try something else. The next cable on the list was a -cough-Monster Cable-cough-. The cable I chose was the Monster Cable Studio Pro 1000 Instrument Cable.

This cable failed to impress me in pretty much any area...the rhythm parts sounded quite similar to the Dimarzio Cable I'd tried previously...muddy sounding overall, less definition within chords etc. Switching to overdriven lead parts once again, I was thoroughly upset at having wasted almost 200 dollars on these cables. All of the sustain that I'd come to love from the Dimarzio over the past few weeks was gone...definition within lead progressions was gone. Fairly consistent with Monsters general reputation.:rolleyes: This was before I even knew about Monsters shoddy business practices, so I wasn't even biased due to that.

Moving on from my huge disappointment with the Monster, I tried a 3rd, and final cable, the Evidence Audio: Lyric HG instrument cable.

This cable impressed me on all counts. It simply blew the other two out of the water. Clarity was vastly improved over all of the frequency ranges, no matter what style I was playing. The rhythm parts I'd been having trouble with previously are sounding fantastic now. I've never heard chords so warm(except from my acoustic;)). The definition if the individual strings within the chords is excellent...each string is sharply defined, and yet they all blend together perfectly. Lead parts are sounding fantastic...higher notes are nice and bright. I also noticed with this cable, that my normal practice volume dropped quite a bit. Before the cable uprades, when practicing, my average volume was around 2(out of 10). My average practice volume now, is closer to 1.5. That may not sound like a big difference, but I can assure you there is a huge difference in my amps volume by clicking it up even a little amount like that.

So, as a guitar player, I think I would be more than qualified to judge the changing sound quality of my guitar rig. When you're playing music, there is no misconception...you're not just listening to it, you're playing it. A tiny little difference in the sound of your rig can completely change the overall sound of your playing. Things that I'd played hundreds of times before, sounded completely different after swapping some cables. When you're actually playing the music, things like that aren't imaginary.

So, if you try to tell me that I was imagining these differences that cables made, I'm going to take it as a personal insult, and I will slap you. My rig sounds vastly better than it did before I upgraded the cables. It was worth every bit of the money I spent. I plan to eventually experiment with some different cables in my electric rig, but for the time being, these Evidence Audio's are doing the trick for me. If Audioquest ever decides to release some pro instrument cables though, I'll be first in line.

ben62670

xcapri79 wrote: »

I would absolutely agree that with your guitar to amplifier connection that you could definitely hear a difference between different cables. Similarly you will hear a difference in cables between a preamp output to amplifier input. It is with these low level signals that noise and signal loss can become a real problem.

What ever.
Here is a pic of my butt...
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/ben62670/butt.jpg

bikezappa

ben62670 wrote: »

OK even simpler for guys that don't get it.

Statement by statement for simple folk.

Two amps with the same figures all across the board like my beloved JVC(before I got serious about this hobby) +- .5db from 5hz to 50khz with identical distortion figures at the same watts.

Do both amps sound the same.

Thanks again.
Shooting fish in a barrel is tiresome.

Again please please please say something moderately intelligent.
Ben

Yes yes yes

Flash21

ben62670 wrote: »

I am very disappointed. I came down to see your reply, but there is nothing there:(
Come on now amps are so close scientifically, and yet guys like you don't acknowledge that they can sound different

I'm beginning to see how you accumulated over 10,000 posts...:p

sucks2beme

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Find me two speakers that measure the same in all the specs I listed, and make sure they are +-1 from 35hz to 20Khz. Good luck.

I guess no one here ever had classic snells or Hales:D

Lowell_M

...Dead Horse Alert!!! Dead Horse Alert!!!!!!

Hillbilly61

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Clear as can be, except you have yet to show two components or speakers that measure the same in all aspects.

Do you have any test sheets that show two reasonably close, but competing, components as either A) measuring essentially the same or measuring vastly different? I keep hearing these statements, have read the same time and again, but have yet to see something first hand that either support or refutes whichever side of the argument someone wants to be on.