Spearker cables..fact or fiction?

jinjuku

seafire wrote: »

True it doesn't.But just how much of this slander, insults and pack mentality do you think anyone can take?
If you take the time to read my posts carefully you will notice that I never said that cables make no difference.I did however state that in my opinion at a certain level the differences become to small to justify the expenditure.I then offered a alternative in cat 5 and even gave some people advice on how to go about with utilizing this.Has it ever occurred to you that some people on this forum may not be in the financial position to afford hi end cables?Then there are those that like tinkering.This forum is here for all to converse and share info and different attitudes.Not to shoot people down with a barrage of insults!I am really tired of repeating myself and if you and others cannot see our point too well then what can I say

Hang in there. Easy enough to not participate in those threads. Real information and help will reach those that need it.

You aren't alone in swatting away the manure flies. Check out this particular gem:

if your rack needs an EQ something is lacking in your gear

Ya, because your room has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the way your setup sounds. Lol... oh the humanity of it all.

Oh, can't forget this particular nugget of smug righteousness:

No equalizer or tone controls are needed if you're gear is up to snuff

Yep, because we all know that a $22,000 set of mono blocks, $1200 worth of cabling, feeding $2500 worth of speakers will take care of Room boundry, time domain, standing wave, resonant frequencies that can be caused by the box called a room.

So basically your gear is absolute ****. That any time you may consider an EQ to smooth a room hump at 52hz, naw, just get another sub woofer. Have a 1db peek at 1800hz? EQ, fugeddaboutit. Pick up some nice new Vandersteens.

Read posts carefully? How about read a post all the way through? I'll at least settle for that.

tcrossma

seafire wrote: »

True it doesn't.But just how much of this slander, insults and pack mentality do you think anyone can take?
If you take the time to read my posts carefully you will notice that I never said that cables make no difference.I did however state that in my opinion at a certain level the differences become to small to justify the expenditure.I then offered a alternative in cat 5 and even gave some people advice on how to go about with utilizing this.Has it ever occurred to you that some people on this forum may not be in the financial position to afford hi end cables?Then there are those that like tinkering.This forum is here for all to converse and share info and different attitudes.Not to shoot people down with a barrage of insults!I am really tired of repeating myself and if you and others cannot see our point too well then what can I say

In my opinion it's not *what* you were saying, but *how* you were saying it. I think most everyone on here agrees there is a point of diminishing returns in cables. That specific point will vary from person to person, but right from your very first post you have been somewhat condescending, sometimes rude, and fairly confrontational. You did not clearly state your opinions right off the bat and instead left it to ones imagination exactly what your purpose for posting here was.

From my point of view, you initially came here to stir the pot a bit. Recently you seem to be making something of an effort to get along, which is a good thing. We're all real people behind our posts, and just like in real life you cannot go into a club (tennis club, golf club, book club, etc) and act that way before getting to know people without expecting push-back.

Just to reiterate, I think the reason for the hostility is not what were saying, but how you went about it. And if YOU cannot see my points here then, well, I too am confused.

seafire

jinjuku wrote: »

You aren't alone in swatting away the manure flies. Check out this particular gem:

if your rack needs an EQ something is lacking in your gear

Ya, because your room has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the way your setup sounds. Lol... oh the humanity of it all.

Oh, can't forget this particular nugget of smug righteousness:

No equalizer or tone controls are needed if you're gear is up to snuff

Yep, because we all know that a $22,000 set of mono blocks, $1200 worth of cabling, feeding $2500 worth of speakers will take care of Room boundry, time domain, standing wave, resonant frequencies that can be caused by the box called a room.

So basically your gear is absolute ****. That any time you may consider an EQ to smooth a room hump at 52hz, naw, just get another sub woofer. Have a 1db peek at 1800hz? EQ, fugeddaboutit. Pick up some nice new Vandersteens.

Read posts carefully? How about read a post all the way through? I'll at least settle for that.

All I can say is LOL

seafire

tcrossma wrote: »

In my opinion it's not *what* you were saying, but *how* you were saying it. I think most everyone on here agrees there is a point of diminishing returns in cables. That specific point will vary from person to person, but right from your very first post you have been somewhat condescending, sometimes rude, and fairly confrontational. You did not clearly state your opinions right off the bat and instead left it to ones imagination exactly what your purpose for posting here was.

From my point of view, you initially came here to stir the pot a bit. Recently you seem to be making something of an effort to get along, which is a good thing. We're all real people behind our posts, and just like in real life you cannot go into a club (tennis club, golf club, book club, etc) and act that way before getting to know people without expecting push-back.

Just to reiterate, I think the reason for the hostility is not what were saying, but how you went about it. And if YOU cannot see my points here then, well, I too am confused.

True and if you scroll a bit up I did admit to coming in with a bit of a whirlwind.However I did try and contribute by way of offering alternative cable options.Something did influence me though.At the time of joining the forum the Sunfire debacle was at it's height and there was some serious rude exchanges.This immediately led me to believe that this forum was more straight to the point and more open minded to various opinions

heiney9

seafire wrote: »

True it doesn't.But just how much of this slander, insults and pack mentality do you think anyone can take?

You could have walked away if you were so unhappy and couldn't take it. I'm sure all the slander was completely unsolicited and you did nothing to entice or stir the pot. Be sure to adjust your Halo.......it's fading.

Back peddle, rationalize, justify all you want. You were as big a part as of the whole thing as anyone else here.

If you don't agree with it.....you are free to leave or ignore those things that upset you.

H9

seafire

suprafantx wrote: »

I just logged in and found out three more pages to read. Hopefull, these posts related to speaker cables. Now it is time for me to catch up.

Hi Super .So have you finished making your cables yet and what do you think?.By the way try bi-amping using your cat on the highs and decent gauge ofc multi strand on your lows.Look further up where I posted about it Seafire

seafire

heiney9 wrote: »

You could have walked away if you were so unhappy and couldn't take it. I'm sure all the slander was completely unsolicited and you did nothing to entice or stir the pot. Be sure to adjust your Halo.......it's fading.

Back peddle, rationalize, justify all you want. You were as big a part as of the whole thing as anyone else here.

If you don't agree with it.....you are free to leave or ignore those things that upset you.

H9

Yes I admit I was as much part of it because I did not back down.Again this specific post heading by it's nature invites debate and opinions.But as soon as someone posted an opinion that wasn't to the regulars agreement all hell broke loose.If those members cannot respect someone's differing opinion then they too should not join a post with the topic being debate! :rolleyes:

suprafantx

seafire wrote: »

Hi Super .So have you finished making your cables yet and what do you think?.By the way try bi-amping using your cat on the highs and decent gauge ofc multi strand on your lows.Look further up where I posted about it Seafire

I finished three of them for front and center speakers. I need few more but do not have time now. I am using LSi25s which have built in subs and I also have seperate sub so I do not have any problem with the low.

DarqueKnight

:rolleyes:

Flash21 wrote: »

I wouldn't say that. Both sides have been saying "Is too!"/"Is not!" in the worst schoolyard fashion...

There are some differences in the sides. On one side you have people who have tried different cables in their systems and reported what they heard. On the other side you have people saying that, because the differences have not been verified by an "expert" scientific panel, the differences must be due to imagination.

Typically, when someone shows up on this forum with an opposing viewpoint on cables, rarely do they do so from the position of:

"I tried these cables with this gear and didn't hear an improvement."

It is usually along the lines of:

seafire wrote: »

Ok been around this hobby for 25 years.Most of this speaker cable -interconect stuff is ****!!

If you introduce yourself to a group by "throwing down the gauntlet", you shouldn't be surprised if that gauntlet gets stuffed down your throat.

jinjuku wrote: »

You aren't alone in swatting away the manure flies. Check out this particular gem:

if your rack needs an EQ something is lacking in your gear

Ya, because your room has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the way your setup sounds. Lol... oh the humanity of it all.

Oh, can't forget this particular nugget of smug righteousness:

No equalizer or tone controls are needed if you're gear is up to snuff

This is the thread where your quotes were taken from:

Does Anyone Use Equalizers Anymore?

The consensus seems to be that as you move up in gear quality, equalizers do more harm than good. Furthermore, there are numerous threads here on room treatment, so there are few here that would argue against room treatment when it's needed.

Wow....equalizers and experimenting with Cat5 speaker cable. What a great leap forward in audio performance enhancement.:rolleyes:

inspiredsports

SCompRacer wrote: »

There are some amps that react unfavorably with high capacitance cables and low impedance speakers. Some amp manufacturers actually publish a maximum capacitance per foot figure for cables in their manuals. Some manufacturers will tell you or name cables you should not use.

I've read responses from proponents of Cat5 speaker cable telling folks with amp oscillation problems to add Zobel networks or use shorter cables. Knowing that, Cat5, or any other high capacitance cable, is not the ultimate answer for everyone.

When you really think about it, computer network cable is computer network cable, and it should not be used for speaker cable by anyone. You can pay now, or you can pay later, but if you want superior sound you will pay up for proper cables.

F1nut

seafire wrote: »

It's nice to know I have some support here.When I said so earlier it was dismissed as not being true.Its so funny,they keep on quoting my one post and with their childish attitude and keep on missing the key word.
I said MOST!! Not all!
The real trolls on this forum are the bullying brat pack!.Capri,Techno and many others have some valid points.But because they are mentally challenging to some it brings out name calling and slander.Behavior not uncommon to a insecure child :rolleyes:

Support? That's a gem. The only support you're getting is from the other trolls and guess what? The lot of you have dug a hole so deep that you'll never climb out of it.

You're complaining about insults directed at you? That's another gem. News flash, you insulted the entire forum with your very first post, so you have NO right to complain about the responses you've received.....NONE!!!

The bottom line, this fine forum isn't the place for you or your kind.

nooshinjohn

plus 1 F-1

lightman1

....pie....









Completly useless post.

Norm Apter

Over one-month old thread and still active and running strong....what a long, strange trip its been.

comfortablycurt

Is this argument still going on?

Why?

Is anyone even arguing about anything anymore? Has it progressed to the "arguing about why we were arguing, just for the sake of arguing" stage? That's pretty bad.

All of these trolls keep talking about how they can't stand this forum, and the people here. I can think of only one sure-fire way for them to deal with that problem. It's quite simple.

Leave. You won't ever have to deal with any of us ever again.

suprafantx

megasat16 wrote: »

Good Going Guys! It's only 9 posts away from my favorite "Ricardo's EMOTIVA Thread"

This needs to stop or I swear the EMU will suffer. LOL

Update. Emo thread is 4 posts behind.

Flash21

Originally Posted by Flash21
I wouldn't say that. Both sides have been saying "Is too!"/"Is not!" in the worst schoolyard fashion...

There are some differences in the sides. On one side you have people who have tried different cables in their systems and reported what they heard. On the other side you have people saying that, because the differences have not been verified by an "expert" scientific panel, the differences must be due to imagination.

Actually I wasn't referring to the technical discussions, I am referring to the flurry of childish name calling that erupts from both sides after each attempt to discuss...FWIW DK you have been quite civil in your attempts to maintain an actual debate here.

treitz3

Had the trolls actually engaged in a serious discussion and not dodged questions?

The whole thread could have been civil. Get my point?

megasat16

suprafantx wrote: »

Update. Emo thread is 4 posts behind.

How do we fix the EMO thread? I can't let my sponsored thread die in vain. It's after all a WOLD CLASS thread and should be the only WORLD REFERENCE CLASS! :cool:

seafire

treitz3 wrote: »

Had the trolls actually engaged in a serious discussion and not dodged questions?

The whole thread could have been civil. Get my point?

Let us start with you showing me where YOU have made any contribution or answering ANY question on this thread :cool:

lightman1

Why won't you people listen to me!!!!

lightman1

Come on guys! We're 14 behind!!!

devani

make that 13....for this fine friday morning

seafire

seafire wrote: »

Let us start with you showing me where YOU have made any contribution or answering ANY question on this thread :cool:

Hmmm no reply.I wonder why? :rolleyes:

heiney9

seafire wrote: »

Hmmm no reply.I wonder why? :rolleyes:

Still at it I see. Thought perhaps a few posts back you were sincere about letting some of this go and moving on...........guess that was just lip service. I guess true colors are hard to change. I'm glad I'm not in your miserable world.

H9

treitz3

seafire wrote: »

Let us start with you showing me where YOU have made any contribution or answering ANY question on this thread :cool:

Ok, not a problem.

treitz3 wrote: »

Good morning Jeb. I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to technobabblekid. I was just advising you to try out some new cables with an open mind.

That said, let me offer you my experience with speaker cables. I did the Rat Shack thing, the Home Depot thing trying to find the biggest and baddest cable I could find. The only notable change I heard was that the bass got a little better when going from the smallest wires to the biggest wires. Now, I must have tried 8 more sub $200.00 cables after that and while others may have noticed a change, I sure as hell did not. Maybe I just kept trying the wrong cables. Now, my final set of low cost [roughly $220.00] was AQ X2 speaker cable that made no change initially but when I added silver solder and precision 'nanners to each of the ends? Ok, this was a surprise. There was a slight change across the board.

Obviously, for me, there was proof in the pudding right there. What I had learned so far is that the smaller the gauge of wire can yield some change and that improving the connections can yield even better results. That was all the proof I needed to actually go out and spend some dough on some real SC's. I ran across a deal here on the forum to purchase a set of AQ CV-8's with a 72v BP upgrade for less than 1/2 of retail. I figured what the hell? Worth the shot considering it was just a small fraction of what I had blown on my rig at that point, I'll try it.

A buddy of mine from California and I were listening to music all morning long until the cables arrived and we went ahead and hooked them up and played some of the selections that we had listened too earlier on that morning. All I can say is that within 14-15 seconds, I had a smile from here to the Mississippi. My bud was in the sweet spot and I was about 7 feet off axis and I could tell that there was a cleanness, more details, tight-**** bass, smoother mids and an extension on the highs I had never heard before. I knew almost instantaneously that I liked what I heard.

It wasn't until I sat down in the sweet spot that everything just came into focus though. This is the point to where after about a minute of listening I jumped up, high-fived my buddy and started literally dancing in the room, yelling "I can finally hear what the F they have heard all this time!!!". What was I so happy about? I was happy that for the first time in my life, I heard what other people actually had been talking about. I heard it. That was why I was so happy. I finally heard it! Now I could talk about how they affect the sound stage, how you could tailor specific sounds or flavors to your rig, talk about the different subtleties that were always in the music that I hadn't ever heard before.....but were always there.

Since then, I try to get as many flavors of SC's in my rig as possible. Some sound great on my rig, some sound like I'm taking a step back in my audio journey. Now keep in mind that all throughout this time, the better the components in my system got, the more noticeable the changes in SC's got. Also, by the time I tried out my first "real" set of SC's I had already invested heavily in IC's because I learned about them waaaaay before I started getting serious about SC's.

Wow, I actually talked about my experience with lower priced cables, mid-priced cables and some other cables. Can't say the same for you. Next....

bikezappa

treitz3

Then you should be able to demonstrate the ability to hear the differnce between speaker cables in a scientifically conducted double blind test.

ben62670

Don't feed the trolls. The will shrivel up and die.

ben62670

bikezappa wrote: »

treitz3

Then you should be able to demonstrate the ability to hear the differnce between speaker cables in a scientifically conducted double blind test.

Over the internet:rolleyes: Umm many of us have done listening test and came to the same conclusions about the sound of particular cables. I don't know what anyone would want over that. If the difference isn't obvious then why would anyone feel the need to keep more expensive cables:rolleyes:
Thanks
Ben

treitz3

bikezappa wrote: »

treitz3

Then you should be able to demonstrate the ability to hear the differnce between speaker cables in a scientifically conducted double blind test.

Do you think for one moment I would feel the urge too?

I trust my ears. If you really think about it, we can also flip this around back at those who say that CAT5 is just as good if not better than some.....as they say.....outrageously priced SC's. How about they prove that to us? How about they prove that premium cables don't make any difference? How about them doing their own DB testing? Me?

I trust my ears.