Emotiva Story.
Comments
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If it did we would all own affordable like sounding HTiB type systems
Or EMOTIVA; their gear looks pretty cool._________________________________________________
***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***
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timlitton-That was brilliant...I busted out laughing when I saw that one...:p:pThe nirvana inducer-
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I'm not bashing EMOTIVA either. Just posted as a FYI. I think they have pretty cool looking gear, and they must be doing something right to be able to offer them at those prices. Also they had to cut on something, and it looks they chose quality control. Not a good move IMO.
As for the sound, I have not heard them, so I can't say anything on that side. But (again IMO), to be able to sell them at those prices, I am pretty sure they are also cutting on components. They can't use high grade resistors, capacitors, transformers, etc, etc and still sell at those prices. The resistors and capacitors I used to upgrade the crossovers of one pair of speakers cost more than their smaller stereo amp. So unless you believe in miracles, I would have to say that it is hard to believe that their amps will sound as good as some other good quality amps (they used the word reference, not me), and do it reliably for a long time.
honestly man your one of very few people i have heard this happen too. I've seen people have horrid luck with some sunfire products. It unfortunatley happened to you, but it does not mean every product they carry has QC issues lolPro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
four units returned,, hang em' I say,, hang em'---timlitton---that was Gold,I tell ya',,,GOLD.:);)JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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This just cracks me up...Its basically the same group of 6 or so people that CONSTANTLY gang up and bash on Emotiva. You wait for one person to come out and say "omg i acutally have a problem with my emotiva gear!!!!" and you take that and run with it. What cracks me up even more is that group of 6 or so has never even heard ONE single piece of emotiva equipment, but yet continue to yack on it being junk. They use elitist excuses like "i dont even need to try it as i know its junk." I have never seen such dislike againt any kind product from a group that has never even tried a unit from this company. You claim that these products cannot be called "reference", oooooh please, stop using that as an excuse to attack them, its just silly :rolleyes:. Some people need to seriously grow up and get over themselves. Some of you find the need to bash specifically because emotiva has gotten alot of talk on this forum....that is the MOST pathetic excuse to hate on a company....
Most of you dont even have an proper knowledge on Emotiva. As one other member said, emotiva is part of a much bigger company owned by Dan L. They have made products for SEVERAL companies that is the SAME thing as what they put out under the emotiva name. But because your not paying for the name and overhead charges that so many companies add on, the price is really good. Do some of you even know the margins on some of the other products you buy??? Its laughable. Im not saying this is the same as a ML amp or Krell, but you get the point. ::Flame suit ooooon::;)Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
I completely understand your point bigred...but this isn't the first case of something like this I've ever heard of. I've heard of quite a few cases where people got defective units from Emotiva, and had to return their items.
Also...That didn't actually happen to Ricardo...that was something that happened to someone on another board. He was just reposting the info here.The nirvana inducer-
APC H10 Power Conditioner
Marantz UD5005 universal player
Parasound Halo P5 preamp
Parasound HCA-1200II power amp
PolkAudio LSi9's/PolkAudio SDA 2A's/PolkAudio Monitor 7A's
Audioquest Speaker Cables and IC's -
bigred7078 wrote: »This just cracks me up...Its basically the same group of 6 or so people that CONSTANTLY gang up and bash on Emotiva. You wait for one person to come out and say "omg i acutally have a problem with my emotiva gear!!!!" and you take that and run with it. What cracks me up even more is that group of 6 or so has never even heard ONE single piece of emotiva equipment, but yet continue to yack on it being junk. They use elitist excuses like "i dont even need to try it as i know its junk." I have never seen such dislike againt any kind product from a group that has never even tried a unit from this company. You claim that these products cannot be called "reference", oooooh please, stop using that as an excuse to attack them, its just silly :rolleyes:. Some people need to seriously grow up and get over themselves. Some of you find the need to bash specifically because emotiva has gotten alot of talk on this forum....that is the MOST pathetic excuse to hate on a company....
Most of you dont even have an proper knowledge on Emotiva. As one other member said, emotiva is part of a much bigger company owned by Dan L. They have made products for SEVERAL companies that is the SAME thing as what they put out under the emotiva name. But because your not paying for the name and overhead charges that so many companies add on, the price is really good. Do some of you even know the margins on some of the other products you buy??? Its laughable. Im not saying this is the same as a ML amp or Krell, but you get the point. ::Flame suit ooooon::;)
Welcome to the internets............son!
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Well, I don't know anything about that BigRed. I know one thing though - it's the fact that EMO had almost all of their amps with Reference in the Ad few weeks back when the discount was going on.
It seems like the guys at EMO has decided to pull the Reference word from all other except but one which is XPA-1. Again, I don't think I and anyone here really bash EMO but simply stating what they've seen on it's own website. It's about overly using the R word.Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin: -
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Gentlemen, very nice posts & right on the money.
Every once & a while ALL companies have QC issues. Dan says Denon is having some, I know Rotel has had some issues. It is simply the nature of electronics.
Marketing is just that, I don't care what BS they spout & they ALL do it.
For the most part they have a satisfied customer base. I'll take EarlyB's word that he is satisfied with the product they put out at face value.
It's funny over on Audioholics someone posted a question about the lack of other sites reviews on Emo products with the exception of Audioholics & Emo's boards. Well all HELL broke loose with the fanboys over there piling on the poor OP like he was a fresh piece of prime rib! The thread got closed last night. ROTFLMAO!
And over here we have nonfanboys putting Emo down every which way but loose!
My guess is that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Good luck to anyone trying to find it!:DI've never heard Emotiva so I can't comment to its quality.
I don't blame them for trying to market their product the best way they can. Is it misleading? I'm not going to judge that. Does it work? Obviously since they've generated a buzz on multiple forums.
What do you expect them to do? Put out lukewarm ads like this one?
I'm hearing alot of speculation, and very little personal experience. Maybe the jury should wait for some evidence?bigred7078 wrote: »This just cracks me up...Its basically the same group of 6 or so people that CONSTANTLY gang up and bash on Emotiva. You wait for one person to come out and say "omg i acutally have a problem with my emotiva gear!!!!" and you take that and run with it. What cracks me up even more is that group of 6 or so has never even heard ONE single piece of emotiva equipment, but yet continue to yack on it being junk. They use elitist excuses like "i dont even need to try it as i know its junk." I have never seen such dislike againt any kind product from a group that has never even tried a unit from this company. You claim that these products cannot be called "reference", oooooh please, stop using that as an excuse to attack them, its just silly :rolleyes:. Some people need to seriously grow up and get over themselves. Some of you find the need to bash specifically because emotiva has gotten alot of talk on this forum....that is the MOST pathetic excuse to hate on a company....
Most of you dont even have an proper knowledge on Emotiva. As one other member said, emotiva is part of a much bigger company owned by Dan L. They have made products for SEVERAL companies that is the SAME thing as what they put out under the emotiva name. But because your not paying for the name and overhead charges that so many companies add on, the price is really good. Do some of you even know the margins on some of the other products you buy??? Its laughable. Im not saying this is the same as a ML amp or Krell, but you get the point. ::Flame suit ooooon::;)Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
comfortablycurt wrote: »I completely understand your point bigred...but this isn't the first case of something like this I've ever heard of. I've heard of quite a few cases where people got defective units from Emotiva, and had to return their items.
Also...That didn't actually happen to Ricardo...that was something that happened to someone on another board. He was just reposting the info here.
I totally understand that for sure. It definately sucks getting 3 defective units. I would be pissed. But at the same time **** like that happens with EVERY company, i just find it funny that when it happens to emotiva people feel the need to jump on them for it and proclaim "SEE it does suck!". But thats not the case. And yes of course it had happened with emotiva before, but what company has stuff like this not happened too? My point was its silly to put down a company that to be honest doesnt have issues that often. In fact i think it happens less often so when people read about an issue people build it up to more than it is. At least Emotiva is taking more actions than most companies would. The guy who had this happen to him, i have spoken to him on several occasions. He definately liked the equipment he was just getting annoyed with the paricular issues he was having and even said Emotiva was definately taking care of him, he even has spoken with the owner of the company Dan L. They sent him new units out ASAP.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
Welcome to the internets............son!
ok "dad",
still does not give you the right you obviously think you deserve to talk bad about a company you have no personal experience with. I think its pretty pathetic in fact.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
I have a friend he always talk how bad the quality of Toyota and recently I found out that he just bought two brand new Toyota vehicles. We have a new name for him STUPID LIAR.:DLiving room
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Headphones: HD800, HD380, RS220, SRH-1840. Headphone amp: Woo WA2.
Room treatment: GIK Room Kit #1. -
It's funny over on Audioholics someone posted a question about the lack of other sites reviews on Emo products with the exception of Audioholics & Emo's boards. Well all HELL broke loose with the fanboys over there piling on the poor OP like he was a fresh piece of prime rib! The thread got closed last night. ROTFLMAO!
LoL that thread was funny. But actually the guy asked how emotiva could be any good if it as not in any Home Theater magazines like stereophile. It was basically everyone trying to explain to this guy that not only are ID products not in stereophile, but magazine reviews really mean skrill. And the thread was reopened lol.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
Yawn....;);)
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I appears we have our share of EMU fanboys here as well....."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
bigred7078 wrote: »ok "dad",
still does not give you the right you obviously think you deserve to talk bad about a company you have no personal experience with. I think its pretty pathetic in fact.
Grow some skin.........will ya! Been around this game a lot longer than you and I'll comment where and when and about what I want. Just as you are free to comment on anything you want.
It is fair to say that out of all the things discussed in this thread that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. As I told you in the last Emo thread......I've moved on......past this type of gear. I am at a completely different point in my audio journey. If you understood this, and had been around some truly great audio gear over a number of years you wouldn't even question this statement; you'd completely get where I'm coming from. But you haven't, therefore you take the above statement as an affront to your gear and to your pride, like it's some sort of elitist statement............it's not even remotely intended to be elitist.......it's simply a fact of this hobby. You either get it....or you don't. Believe me, compared to what others on this forum have experienced in their journey, and where they're at now, makes me look like a novice.
Rock on, enjoy your tunes and your rig because you're farther along than most people an you are obviously passionate about it. :cool:"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
How's the flame suit holding up bigred?! Let me know if you need me to spray you with some water to keep the heat down!bigred7078 wrote: »ok "dad",
still does not give you the right you obviously think you deserve to talk bad about a company you have no personal experience with. I think its pretty pathetic in fact.
This thread brings up several points of interest IMO. Firstly, there do indeed seem to be people who find it hard to believe that Emo can live up to some of their lofty claims, and the hype from some very one-sided reviews. Few of those here at CP, if any, however, in my experience, actually go to threads to answer questions with a "don't buy it, it's low end junk!" proclamation. On the other hand, there are several that do frequently recommend Emotiva without ever having tried the products either, both here at CP and elsewhere.
As for the problems described in the OP. Well, Emotiva do seem to be having some occasional issues with faulty units being delivered, and several faulty units in a row does seem highly unusual and significant. In their favor, however, if you approach them with tact, they do seem to follow trhough with solutions and a no nonsense attitude ... other that shipping more faulty units to the same person of course, in this case at least. I even found myself wondering how truthful the person describing the problems was actually being, since it seems so ridiculous, until bigred said he actually spoke to him, so the story seems genuine enough after all.
I am surprised at such problems though. The issues I had with Emotiva had nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with performance. It could be argued that my 90dB+ sensivity 8 ohm speakers just were not hard enough to drive for the promised extra power to matter, but my recent acquisition of a NAD receiver, with modest claimed output, yielded far superior results, so that is not the whole story, not to mention the extravagant claims made by Emotiva in describing their products, backed up be those same glorious reviews from the usual suspects.
The comments new owners frequently make do not seem to tell the whole story, however, IMO. They frequently point to how gorgeous the units are, and how beautiful the high quality finish looks, how well packed they are. I simply cannot agree with this wholeheartedly. The fit and finish of my units was somewhat mediocre IMO, and even a little bit tacky, not to mention the stupidly Wal-Mart HTiB cheap remote I received with the LMC-1. This includes the fuzzy operation of the poorly painted knobs on the LMC-1, the wobbly signature "E" power button on both my units, and the fit/finish of some rear end connections too. I am surprised more owners do not also comment on this more often (well, more often would be "at least one other person, not just me"), since my Emo units did not compare well to either Denon, Yamaha, harman/kardon or NAD in that respect in my experience. My packing was also so tight that the HDMI switcher box was squeezed into the LMC-1 box in such a way that it could not help but be sqaushed, with collapsed sides, in transit (no damage to the unit, however).
As for marketing. Emotiva do seem to play the big specifications game in a very **** way, and it always has me wondering where the truth of their performance really lies, beyond the LPA-1/UPA-x units, that is, since I have no direct XPA-x experience.
I am sure Emotiva have provided great options for many happy users, including here at CP, but I would like to read some more balanced reviews once in a blue moon, a little bit more respect for what some other brands have achieved and which may just have got something right, other than w/ch, that Emotiva have not quite figured out as yet, and finally, some other options for new members other than the usual Onkyo 805/806/876 + Emotiva XPA combos.
JMO. No flames here!Alea jacta est! -
#1 - Damn I wish I could get those 10 mins. back I just spent reading all this.
#2 - Tim, That was hilarious,thanks!:D
#3 - I would love to have the Emo come on over and put it up against the amps we have here in the RAS,not too sure it will survive.
#4 - Red, heiney9 is an elitist a$$hole. You had him pegged from the get go.:p:D -
#4 - Red, heiney9 is an elitist a$$hole. You had him pegged from the get go.:p:D
Dave, the cost to buy back those Signal cables..........just doubled. Since they were in my mere presence they sound better than ever
:):D:p "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
#1 - How did you learn to make such short posts?#1 - Damn I wish I could get those 10 mins. back I just spent reading all this.
...
#2 - 10 mins.? Did you only read my post then?!Alea jacta est! -
#1 - How did you learn to make such short posts?
#2 - 10 mins.? Did you only read my post then?!
You posted?:D -
All brands considered ... EMO gets mentioned more in the last few months here at CP than any other brand.........I will be in the market for a 2 channel pre later in the year & the RSP-2 has been one of the for runners .... Im not so sure now .....one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch IMO
Emo has been around for what ?? 2 or 3 years ?? please correct me if i'm wrong on that..
Myself, I have seen many more good things posted here & abroad than bad but have no experience with any of their products.......
If the owner actively participates in their forum ..... that's just gotta be a good thing ... NO ??????? -
How's the flame suit holding up bigred?! Let me know if you need me to spray you with some water to keep the heat down!
This thread brings up several points of interest IMO. Firstly, there do indeed seem to be people who find it hard to believe that Emo can live up to some of their lofty claims, and the hype from some very one-sided reviews. Few of those here at CP, if any, however, in my experience, actually go to threads to answer questions with a "don't buy it, it's low end junk!" proclamation. On the other hand, there are several that do frequently recommend Emotiva without ever having tried the products either, both here at CP and elsewhere.
As for the problems described in the OP. Well, Emotiva do seem to be having some occasional issues with faulty units being delivered, and several faulty units in a row does seem highly unusual and significant. In their favor, however, if you approach them with tact, they do seem to follow trhough with solutions and a no nonsense attitude ... other that shipping more faulty units to the same person of course, in this case at least. I even found myself wondering how truthful the person describing the problems was actually being, since it seems so ridiculous, until bigred said he actually spoke to him, so the story seems genuine enough after all.
I am surprised at such problems though. The issues I had with Emotiva had nothing to do with quality, and everything to do with performance. It could be argued that my 90dB+ sensivity 8 ohm speakers just were not hard enough to drive for the promised extra power to matter, but my recent acquisition of a NAD receiver, with modest claimed output, yielded far superior results, so that is not the whole story, not to mention the extravagant claims made by Emotiva in describing their products, backed up be those same glorious reviews from the usual suspects.
The comments new owners frequently make do not seem to tell the whole story, however, IMO. They frequently point to how gorgeous the units are, and how beautiful the high quality finish looks, how well packed they are. I simply cannot agree with this wholeheartedly. The fit and finish of my units was somewhat mediocre IMO, and even a little bit tacky, not to mention the stupidly Wal-Mart HTiB cheap remote I received with the LMC-1. This includes the fuzzy operation of the poorly painted knobs on the LMC-1, the wobbly signature "E" power button on both my units, and the fit/finish of some rear end connections too. I am surprised more owners do not also comment on this more often (well, more often would be "at least one other person, not just me"), since my Emo units did not compare well to either Denon, Yamaha, harman/kardon or NAD in that respect in my experience. My packing was also so tight that the HDMI switcher box was squeezed into the LMC-1 box in such a way that it could not help but be sqaushed, with collapsed sides, in transit (no damage to the unit, however).
As for marketing. Emotiva do seem to play the big specifications game in a very **** way, and it always has me wondering where the truth of their performance really lies, beyond the LPA-1/UPA-x units, that is, since I have no direct XPA-x experience.
I am sure Emotiva have provided great options for many happy users, including here at CP, but I would like to read some more balanced reviews once in a blue moon, a little bit more respect for what some other brands have achieved and which may just have got something right, other than w/ch, that Emotiva have not quite figured out as yet, and finally, some other options for new members other than the usual Onkyo 805/806/876 + Emotiva XPA combos.
JMO. No flames here!
See now here is a response i can completely respect. You tried the product, did not like it, and thats it. You found many aspects to be cheap, and in many of your findings i also agree with, but as i have said before they have come a long way since the UL combo (LMC-1/LPA-1).
No matter what company you go with you will have people that have similar opinions as Kex. Thats just the electronics industry and different peoples opinions for you.
I again agree with you Kex about how many people seem to just be buying the Emotiva for the "looks" and its their first amp. Well of course there will be an overwhelming number of people that this is their first amp and they gush over it. But there are also those like myself and several others that have owned other amps and really enjoy the emotiva, not just for the money, but because of how it performs.
All in all my point is that this is an audio forum. The purpose is to help others. Not to blab about nonsense that alot of members here have no direct experience with. Remember the economy sucks right now, but many people are still looking to increase their audio performance. Unfortunately many cannot afford to spend thousands on other amps. Emotiva is a VERY attractive company right now, so like it or not your going to hear the name people so just learn to deal with it. Im tired of hearing about monoprice and blue jeans cables but its just part of the audio industry as bang for the buck cables just like emotiva is to amps and processors (And now speakers...).
Thanks for the respectful post KexPro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
All brands considered ... EMO gets mentioned more in the last few months here at CP than any other brand.........I will be in the market for a 2 channel pre later in the year & the RSP-2 has been one of the for runners .... Im not so sure now .....one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch IMO
Emo has been around for what ?? 2 or 3 years ?? please correct me if i'm wrong on that..
Myself, I have seen many more good things posted here & abroad than bad but have no experience with any of their products.......
If the owner actively participates in their forum ..... that's just gotta be a good thing ... NO ???????
This was actually the first issue i have ever heard of with an RSP model...
Again most of the problems (Tony? i think that was his name...) had were not with performance but merely cosmetics. He fixed the noisey phono issue, and got a new unit for the sticky volume. Then he got another unit with bad silk screening of the logo (which was pretty bad). Then i guess the last one did actually crap out.
Emotiva as its currently known has been around for about 4 years...The Owner Dan L. has owned this paricular factory for much much longer where they made components for much higher end companies. So the brand is new, but the building has been around for much longer.Pro-ject RM-9.1 w/ Grado Sonata 1 -> USP-1 -> RPA-1 -> Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grands -
Perhaps, but we have also had Outlaw fanboys, SDA fanboys, SVS fanboys, tube fanboys, 2 channel fanboys....& on & on & on.
Just the nature of message boards!:pI appears we have our share of EMU fanboys here as well.....Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
I've never heard Emotiva so I can't comment to its quality.
I don't blame them for trying to market their product the best way they can. Is it misleading? I'm not going to judge that. Does it work? Obviously since they've generated a buzz on multiple forums.
What do you expect them to do? Put out lukewarm ads like this one?
That right there is World Class!!!
I'm bad, I'm nationwide......Tickle my EMO!!!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
There is no such thing as "SDA fanboys": they are simply persons who have been born again, and have finally seen (heard?) the light. Your statement, Madam, is sacriligeous and blasphemy!Perhaps, but we have also had Outlaw fanboys, SDA fanboys, SVS fanboys, tube fanboys, 2 channel fanboys....& on & on & on.
Just the nature of message boards!:pAlea jacta est! -
I can only comment on my experience: I own an Emotiva LPA-1 which I bought from the company refurbished. It has performed beyond expectation and has never given me a single problem in the year I've owned it. A lot of people criticize emotiva buyers arguing it's their first and only amp. Not true here...Adcom 555, Onkyo M282 (I know, I know), former NAD C272, former Anthem MCA20 (well it was borrowed for 3 months). The LPA-1 performs very well compared to all of these amps, at least in my room with my RTi speakers. Not as good as the MCA20 but I felt I got about 85-90% of the sound with 1/4 the cost through the Emo. There are obviously far superior amplifiers..but none at this price.
I'm sorry so many of you are put off my emotiva's advertising...I agree it may be a little loud...but the products are a great value. -
A vote for EMOTIVAFront: Tekton Pendragon
Center: Tekton Pendragon
Surr.: Fxi5
Umc1
Xpr-2
Xpa-3
Xda-2
Erc-3
Xsp-1
Vtf-2 Mk3 x 2
