Emotiva Story.

mmadden28 · February 2009

"Reference" plain and simple a marketing term. At least that is how I understand it to be. I don't think the NIST has an entry for it.

As far as people not bothering to look elsewhere once they are bowled over by a term in an ad, well hmm. Shame on them if they are disappointed.

Let's see, how about these terms:

"ultimate sonic accuracy"
"Premium components"
"top of the line audio performance"
"finest quality speakers"
"space age material"
"ultra-pure performance"
"best possible performance"

Would you put these marketing terms into the same category as "reference"? Might they, if you saw them on a site, lead you to belive that this is the cream of the crop, that its unlikely that there might be better out there?
Can there be better than Ultimate Sonic Accuracy? Is there better than Top of the Line? Or Ultra-Pure? or Best Possible?

F1nut · February 2009

I love how some of you guys can judge something you've never even heard.

Some of us guys have been around long enough to know that no one is ever going to figure out how to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

comfortablycurt · February 2009

F1nut wrote: »

Some of us guys have been around long enough to know that no one is ever going to figure out how to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Exactly. While I don't fall into that category of someone that's been around for a long time...these are the people I'm going to trust. The people that have been there, and done that. By far, the majority of the people that support Emo to the max, are the people that are fairly new to the hobby. I'm pretty new to it myself, and at first, I was convinced that Emo was the way to go, simply because I didn't know any better.

When they're offering an amp that supposedly has the same specs and quality as amps costing twice, or even three times as much...some corners have been cut.

mmadden28 wrote: »

"Reference" plain and simple a marketing term. At least that is how I understand it to be. I don't think the NIST has an entry for it.

As far as people not bothering to look elsewhere once they are bowled over by a term in an ad, well hmm. Shame on them if they are disappointed.

Let's see, how about these terms:

"ultimate sonic accuracy"
"Premium components"
"top of the line audio performance"
"finest quality speakers"
"space age material"
"ultra-pure performance"
"best possible performance"

Would you put these marketing terms into the same category as "reference"? Might they, if you saw them on a site, lead you to belive that this is the cream of the crop, that its unlikely that there might be better out there?
Can there be better than Ultimate Sonic Accuracy? Is there better than Top of the Line? Or Ultra-Pure? or Best Possible?

I agree..."reference" by and large is a marketing term. It's not as if you can pick up a resistor and say, "this is a reference resistor". It's a term that has come to have a lot of meaning in this hobby though. When you're buying a reference quality component...you're expecting something similar in quality and performance, to other companies "reference series".

There are some things I do really like about Emo though. For one, it's great to see a new American business actually succeeding in our current economy. I hope they keep going, and keep succeeding. It's not as if I want them to fail or anything.

Also, they really do fill a certain market segment. For the people who don't have a lot of money to spend, and aren't comfortable buying used, but want to get into externals? Emo's great for that! It's still going to give you a huge improvement in sound quality over an AVR without breaking the bank.

As I said earlier though...personally I'm not looking for the best bang for the buck, and I have no issues with buying used equipment. Don't get me wrong, I still haven't completely ruled Emotiva out...but odds are that I'll be going with something else. I'm looking for the best bang that fits into my price range, which extends over Emotiva's price range, so I'm going to get what I deem to be the best option for the money I want to spend.

bigred7078 · February 2009

F1nut wrote: »

Some of us guys have been around long enough to know that no one is ever going to figure out how to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

If you believe that being around "long enough" makes you all knowing than you are truly foolish.

bigred7078 · February 2009

comfortablycurt wrote: »

When they're offering an amp that supposedly has the same specs and quality as amps costing twice, or even three times as much...some corners have been cut.

Ahhh the words of someone who knows nothing of the industry

. Unfortuanatley not all amps costing 3 times more are utilizing "better" parts. Some actually do, but the majority dont. Emotiva has made comp onents for companies such as sunfire. Do you consider sunfire cheap? I certainly do not. But you pay for the name, you pay for the middle man mark up and you pay for the overhead and profit of the store carrying the product. So its pretty easy to understand why emotiva has low prices. Are the internals of the amps made in China? Of course, but so are the parts of all the amps on the market.

Listen im not saying its the greatest amps on the market, but i think it competes rather heavily with alot of amps from "better" companies and with a way better price to boot.

I have personally owned 7 pieces of emotiva gear, and they have all been excellent performers. Like i said earlier, i did a side by side comparison with my RPA-1 and an Odyssey Stratos (another ID company) that retails for $1200(without the upgrades). The Odyssey was no better than the RPA-1 which suprised me because i expected the Odyssey to walk all over it after all i had read. So thinking you know or understand something really doesn't meant to much until its put to the test.

bigred7078 · February 2009

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I agree..."reference" by and large is a marketing term. It's not as if you can pick up a resistor and say, "this is a reference resistor". It's a term that has come to have a lot of meaning in this hobby though. When you're buying a reference quality component...you're expecting something similar in quality and performance, to other companies "reference series".

Yes "reference" has come to a certain meaning in this hobby. And if you have not already been able to tell that meaning varies from one person to another...

And what makes another companies reference series more "reference" than the ones emotiva currently lists. Or for that matter why can another company list a product as reference but emotiva cannot?

If we all considered the same thing "Reference quality" than there definately would be a point to all this. But we obviously dont all consider the same things as reference....so one mans trash is another mans treasure.

I guess we will agree to disagree.

comfortablycurt · February 2009

bigred7078 wrote: »

I guess we will agree to disagree.

Yeah...I think it's just one of those situations.

In either case, it sounds like there's going to be an XPA-5 at the next RAS meeting, so I'll be able to get my ears on one, and compare it to some other amps at the same time. It'll be nice to finally hear an Emo after hearing so much about them.

Time will tell...who knows? Maybe I'll hear it and love what I hear...Like I said before, I haven't completely ruled them out yet.;)

bassaholic · February 2009

F1nut wrote: »

no one is ever going to figure out how to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

A few more pages and we'll see this same quote again. GO MONSTER!!! http://www.polkaudio.com/justin/Monster_Adcom_Shootout.pdf

metal83 · February 2009

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Exactly. While I don't fall into that category of someone that's been around for a long time...these are the people I'm going to trust. The people that have been there, and done that. By far, the majority of the people that support Emo to the max, are the people that are fairly new to the hobby. I'm pretty new to it myself, and at first, I was convinced that Emo was the way to go, simply because I didn't know any better.

I trust myself, and myself only when it comes to my ears and my money.
Certainly not a bunch of people on the internet, i don't care how long someone has been here or how many posts they have, it definitely doesn't make them audio gods. And saying that the majority of people who support Emotiva are new to this hobby is a pretty ridiculous statement, have you been on other forums? AVS comes to mind, or even Emotiva's own forums, amoung others. And what about the people who designed these products, surely they are not new to this hobby. There seems to be plenty of people who are far from beginners with this hobby with much interest in Emotiva.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

When they're offering an amp that supposedly has the same specs and quality as amps costing twice, or even three times as much...some corners have been cut.

And you know this as a fact, how so, have you ripped one apart and examined the inner workings yourself?

comfortablycurt wrote: »

I agree..."reference" by and large is a marketing term. It's not as if you can pick up a resistor and say, "this is a reference resistor". It's a term that has come to have a lot of meaning in this hobby though. When you're buying a reference quality component...you're expecting something similar in quality and performance, to other companies "reference series".

Ok, so you agree it's marketing term by and large, but that it also has a lot of meaning in this hobby. Since when do marketing terms have a lot of meaning.

comfortablycurt wrote: »

There are some things I do really like about Emo though. For one, it's great to see a new American business actually succeeding in our current economy. I hope they keep going, and keep succeeding. It's not as if I want them to fail or anything.

No, you don't want them to fail, you just have no problem bashing them apparently, because that's what other people are doing, so why not fit in right...:rolleyes:

comfortablycurt wrote: »

Also, they really do fill a certain market segment. For the people who don't have a lot of money to spend, and aren't comfortable buying used, but want to get into externals? Emo's great for that! It's still going to give you a huge improvement in sound quality over an AVR without breaking the bank.

So Emotiva products are for less fortunate people now, basically is what your saying? :rolleyes:

comfortablycurt wrote: »

As I said earlier though...personally I'm not looking for the best bang for the buck, and I have no issues with buying used equipment. Don't get me wrong, I still haven't completely ruled Emotiva out...but odds are that I'll be going with something else. I'm looking for the best bang that fits into my price range, which extends over Emotiva's price range, so I'm going to get what I deem to be the best option for the money I want to spend.

Ok, you haven't completely ruled them out, i could of sworn you basically said you had somewhere in this long but ridiculous thread.

Best bang for the buck, and best bang that fits in your price range, are essentially the same thing you know. Aren't we all trying to get the best bang for the buck with anything we buy, not just audio equipment?

Ok, i'm done, and no offense by the way, this is just the internet after all...:)
I'm going to go and enjoy my poor mans amp now, so let the Emo bashing proceed...lol

Emotiva rocks!!!

shack · February 2009

oooh...the fanboys are restless.....:rolleyes:

heiney9 · February 2009

bigred7078 wrote: »

Ahhh the words of someone who knows nothing of the industry . Unfortuanatley not all amps costing 3 times more are utilizing "better" parts. Some actually do, but the majority dont.

This is one of most the naive statements I've heard on this board lately........do you really believe that. I agree that cost as a singular component doesn't make something a superior product. But to say but the majority dont.. LMAO.

What other "amps" have you heard compared to your Emo (besides the Odyssey). What design topologies have you decided to learn about to make an educated decision about what to buy? What truly high end components have you researched and listened to make such an absurd statement.

At this point you might as well be farting in the wind as what little amount of credibility you might have started out with is gone.

All those that have Emo and are happy with it.............please enjoy that's what this hobby is all about. Those that trying to convince they are the next best thing since sliced bread.......get out and experience some audio gear......you can thank me later.

heiney9 · February 2009

bigred7078 wrote: »

If you believe that being around "long enough" makes you all knowing than you are truly foolish.

The only one looking foolish is your blind fanboyism towards an entry to upper entry line of products that your trying to pass off as some type of be all, end all line of products. I'm sure Emo fits the bill for many, but I don't need to try every single piece of audio equipment to know whether it will sound better than what I already have. I can tell you just by looking (at Emo) at how it's designed and who it's marketed to; that it won't............and that it wouldn't even be close.

Have a good day

Ricardo · February 2009

H9, I heard Nelson Pass helped design EMO amps. Would that make you change your mind?

Face · February 2009

Ricardo wrote: »

H9, I heard Nelson Pass helped design EMO amps. Would that make you change your mind?

That just made my morning.

heiney9 · February 2009

Ricardo wrote: »

H9, I heard Nelson Pass helped design EMO amps. Would that make you change your mind?

It would perk my interest a bit more...........because he has an impeccable 20+ year reputation for designing and building superb products in both fit and finish as well as a particular sound I like very much.

Someone with his credentials much like if Bob Carver or Richard Marsh or John Curl or Walter Jung or Victor Campos, etc, etc who have some industry credibility and have been around the block and know their ****...........then yes my interest would certainly be higher than it is now. I've heard many of their best works and certainly have a point of reference there.

But, I'd also be the first one to say it didn't meet the mark if it sounded like crap. No blind fan boy here. I've defended Adcom in the past but amongst other similarly priced and marketed products. Never said they were the be all end all. Simply very nice sounding and worth a listen within other similar products.

But thanks for asking Ricardo

heiney9 · February 2009

Face wrote: »

That just made my morning.

You can bite me too Mike

:)

shack · February 2009

Hey...while we're at it...can we get a shout-out for OPPO?

LessisNevermore · February 2009

Ricardo wrote: »

H9, I heard Nelson Pass helped design EMO amps. Would that make you change your mind?

:D

H9, I have never seen bigred claim Emo to be the end-all of anything in this thread, or anywhere else.

heiney9 · February 2009

This thread has gone from constructive to destructive. Lots of rhetoric from both sides (myself included) as well as some knee jerk responses. It's never my intention to bash any one person or any single piece of gear. My passions and enthusiasm shine through bright sometimes. Not everyone appreciates that.

Bottom line is if you enjoy what you have and enjoy the hobby.....that's all that matters. If Emo rocks your world then great, enjoy.

Peace Out

H9

mmadden28 · February 2009

mmadden28 wrote: »

"Reference" plain and simple a marketing term. At least that is how I understand it to be. I don't think the NIST has an entry for it.

As far as people not bothering to look elsewhere once they are bowled over by a term in an ad, well hmm. Shame on them if they are disappointed.

Let's see, how about these terms:

"ultimate sonic accuracy"
"Premium components"
"top of the line audio performance"
"finest quality speakers"
"space age material"
"ultra-pure performance"
"best possible performance"

Would you put these marketing terms into the same category as "reference"? Might they, if you saw them on a site, lead you to belive that this is the cream of the crop, that its unlikely that there might be better out there?
Can there be better than Ultimate Sonic Accuracy? Is there better than Top of the Line? Or Ultra-Pure? or Best Possible?

Just in case anybody is curious, I collected these terms from a couple products on Polkaudio's site. I think many here will concede that there are better speakers and subwoofers out there. That "best possible performance" or "Top of the line" can't really be 'best possible' if there is apparently better out there. Or Ultra Pure performance-hmm, seems a stretch to apply to anything, but definately a marketing term.

Its quite likely you won't find too many manufacturers that don't want their products to sell well and applying catch-phrases and marketing blurbs is certainly one way to do it. Car manufacturers do it all the time, but they get away with it because they add "in its class". It seems almost every car out there is the Best in its class if you only paid attention to the ads. :rolleyes:

Just seems to be a lot of misused terms and phrases, that are themselves subjective, being thrown around, and each person is going to interpret them in a different way if they are not well defined.

Ricardo · February 2009

Keiko wrote: »

Just spent an hour reading through this thread. I hope this next one works out for you Ricardo. I would of been annoyed by the second and with the third, I would have probably struck them out. Good luck on the fourth bro. You certainly have a lot of patience.

Post #52, classic.

Looks like an hour was not enough for good reading comprehension....:)

This was not me

heiney9 · February 2009

For the 4th or 5th time.................the situation was posted by Ricardo from another forum..........not his personal experience:D:p.

And yes I would say the original person this situation happened to has a lot of patience

thsmith · February 2009

Just stirring the pot because he can:eek::rolleyes:

tonyb · February 2009

Wow....6 friggin pages of "Emo sucks,no it don't".......reminds me of Bose when they first came out.
Emo fills a need for those going from receivers to seperates without breaking the bank.Is there better out there? Of coarse....the OP just stated the quality control issues he was having,after all,most buy gear from user reviews rather than manufacturers marketing mumbo jumbo.As much as Bose has taken it's knocks over the years,people still buy them,your Emo isn't going anywhere because someone had some issues with them,relax.
Man,6 pages??
One more thing,I saw a poster knock Jessie for being older not equateing to knowledge,maybe so,but Jessie,and some of us "older"folks have been alive long enough to have used countless brands with numerous variety's of gear,wire,amps,speakers,in so many variations,that I would trust their judgement over any marketing hype,any day.'nuff said.

polkatese · February 2009

Keiko wrote: »

Blah! It's 5:30 in the morning here.

I envy you, Keiko. When I used to commute to Oahu, morning time is my precious time, watching the sunrise from Rainbow tower at the village.

Montoya · February 2009

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my Emo. Prepare to die.

Marty913 · February 2009

Hopefully this thread will die now. It's overdue.

reeltrouble1 · February 2009

Montoya wrote: »

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my Emo. Prepare to die.

I am sorry to hear of your loss.

It is always important to know that in each struggle innocent victims are caught unaware of the storm raging around them and suffer pain and death.

After due consideration of all the arguments I have decided that the Emo dissidents have just slightly edged out the Emo supporters. It was close and the supporters did launch a good counter-viewpoint, however, the train had already left the station and was too far down the track.

This decision is final with no appeal, per the Tickle my Emo decree ordered by the President.

Personally I will look into this product as soon as someone shows me where the Tubes are as that is all that really matters. Reeely.

RT1

Bass_Pedal · February 2009

So let it be written, so let it be done.

Retro152 · February 2009

LessisNevermore wrote: »

:D

H9, I have never seen bigred claim Emo to be the end-all of anything in this thread, or anywhere else.

Agree with you on that, as he wouldn't and shouldn't. Just expressing his opinion on equipment he's had extensive experience on, much the way an owner of Adcom, Rotel, etc, would. Yes, all tried and true proven gear. But absolutely not claiming it's the "end-all" and answer to our Hi-Fi dream's. Jesus, what the hell's wrong with buying affordable equipment, that at this early stage of it's infancy, seem's to be of decent quality?

And sorry, the "Emo fan boy" label has gots ta go, were all "fan's" of OUR gear, be it: Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer,(Hell, im shoutin from the rooftop's about the sc-05). Rotel, Adcom, blah,blah,blah. We all felt compelled to join the Polk Audio forum for some strange reason, hmmmm........... got it! Because maybe were Polk Audio Fanboy's?:rolleyes:

Emotiva Story.

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