IsoClean Audio Grade Fuses

dorokusai

And I thought you cared, right back at ya'. Dismissed.

megasat16

Audio seems more like Rocket Science in one aspect. One time you hit, many times you missed!

But that's OK! Rocket Scientists got paid for the times they missed too.

hearingimpared

^^^^^^^:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

bikezappa

xcapri79 wrote: »

Don't you believe in magic? Some do. It's cool.:cool:

Still have a few of their LPs.

Do you want the plane engineer/designer/fabricator to believe in majic or science as you take off?

Every one can have opinions and fun tweaking their system but please don't use bad basic science to justify the opinions.

Mother Nature bats last.

hearingimpared

bikezappa wrote: »

Still have a few of their LPs.

Do you want the plane engineer/designer/fabricator to believe in majic or science as you take off?

Every one can have opinions and fun tweaking their system but please don't use bad basic science to justify the opinions.

Mother Nature bats last.

That is truly a bad analogy comparing aerodynamics, design and fabrication to acoustical measurements as scientific measurements in music reproduction is a completely different animal and not solid yet.

Peter, with all due respect, ohm's law is great but was not intended to be carried over to a lot of different fields. It is IMHO the rule for electrical properties and yes I studied it long and hard back in the stone age when I was going for my technical degree; only an associates degree but still a requirement to know in your sleep.

Face

hearingimpared wrote: »

Peter, with all due respect, ohm's law is great but was not intended to be carried over to a lot of different fields.

It must be the only thing he understands.

bikezappa

hearingimpared wrote: »

That is truly a bad analogy comparing aerodynamics, design and fabrication to acoustical measurements as scientific measurements in music reproduction is a completely different animal and not solid yet.

Peter, with all due respect, ohm's law is great but was not intended to be carried over to a lot of different fields. It is IMHO the rule for electrical properties and yes I studied it long and hard back in the stone age when I was going for my technical degree; only an associates degree but still a requirement to know in your sleep.

So does alternating current go in both directions? Or in one direction as DK states?

The basic laws of physics, of which EE comes from, apply to all materials including acoustic.
If you can find exceptions where the laws don't apply and prove it with experiment you will become very famous.

DarqueKnight

Face wrote: »

It must be the only thing he understands.

No. He knows it, but he doesn't understand it.;):)

treitz3

DarqueKnight wrote: »

No. He thinks he knows it, but he still doesn't understand it.;):)

Here, buddy. Corrected it for ya'.

hearingimpared

Careful fellas BZ will only take this as an affirmation that if he disagrees with DK or anyone else he's going to get called names :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: . . . 'nuff said.;)

tonyb

You'll be callin' me names,Joe, when I come over and sneek out of there with that MF Tri-Vista 300.:p:D

hearingimpared

bikezappa wrote: »

So does alternating current go in both directions? Or in one direction as DK states?

The basic laws of physics, of which EE comes from, apply to all materials including acoustic.
If you can find exceptions where the laws don't apply and prove it with experiment you will become very famous.

I'm talking about sound, the sound of music, the sound coming from gear, the sound that hits your ears, the sound of music that can be manipulated by changing the electrical properties of even a fuse or anything else that can affect the signal. BTW "SOLID METALS ARE NOT THE ONLY CONDUCTORS!!! To add to that, current USUALLY FLOWS in one direction." ~ William J Beaty, research engineer

Get off this AC crap. You are asking me to speak for DK which I will not. He made his case for AC current flow. Why do you have such a hard on for it! and then dismiss everything else he writes? Not very scientific of you is it?

I made my statement in the above post and you morph it into your debate with DK as to whether AC goes back and forth!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Cut me a break and stay on MY statement!

You worry about being called names but it's hard to respect a guy who's hung up on one thing and keeps going back to that one thing in all discussions. Think about it please.

Here's an article by WILLIAM J. BEATY (Research Engineer) which should really get your panties in a bunch. It gave me something to think about as I've been out of the electronics field and school for quite a few years.

http://amasci.com/amateur/elecdir.html

NOTE; this post has been thoroughly spell checked to protect the old and decrepit!

hearingimpared

tonyb wrote: »

You'll be callin' me names,Joe, when I come over and sneek out of there with that MF Tri-Vista 300.:p:D

Just make sure to leave $3500 in cash or postal money order (well you're my bud so a check will do too) on the kitchen table on the way out! :eek::D:p

Rock salt from a shotgun in the heiney can leave you standing on your ride home all the way to Chi Town!!! LOL!!!!

DarqueKnight

tonyb wrote: »

You'll be callin' me names,Joe, when I come over and sneek out of there with that MF Tri-Vista 300.:p:D

hearingimpared wrote: »

Just make sure to leave $3500 in cash or postal money order (well you're my bud so a check will do too) on the kitchen table on the way out! :eek::D:p

Joe, I thought you were a reasonable rational fellow and now I come to find out that you are listening to a MF Tri-Vista 300 that cost several thousands of dollars.

Tell you what, next time I am up your way I am going to bring my oscilloscope and multimeter and we'll see if your high-falutin' MF Tri-Vista 300 measures any better than an inexpensive Sony integrated amp. I don't expect that my meters, which work on Ohm's Law, which show any measurable difference between the volts, ohms and amps in the Sony and the MF.


Now, I ain't gonna do any subjective listening tests because you audiophile folk are masters at pulling the wool over the eyes of innocents and gullibles with all your slick packaging, thick gold-plated cables and impressive machined aluminum cases and such.

hearingimpared

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Joe, I thought you were a reasonable rational fellow and now I come to find out that you are listening to a MF Tri-Vista 300 that cost several thousands of dollars.

Tell you what, next time I am up your way I am going to bring my oscilloscope and multimeter and we'll see if you high-falutin' MF Tri-Vista 300 measures any better than an inexpensive Sony integrated amp. I don't expect that my meters, which work on Ohm's Law, which show any measurable difference between the volts, ohms and amps in the Sony and the MF.


Now, I ain't gonna do any subjective listening tests because you audiophile folk are masters at pulling the wool over the eyes of innocents and gullibles with all your slick packaging, thick gold-plated cables and impressive machined aluminum cases and such.

. . . and it's heavy as all hell and has military tubes in the preamp stage, wee little ones that are soldered in. More snake oil!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

You're a riot Bro!!!

BTW just for the record I bought that from Jesse about three years ago. God forbid I have some people here rushing to judgment again.:rolleyes:;)

cristo

hearingimpared wrote: »

Here's an article by WILLIAM J. BEATY (Research Engineer) which should really get your panties in a bunch. It gave me something to think about as I've been out of the electronics field and school for quite a few years.

http://amasci.com/amateur/elecdir.html

Quite an animated discussion on basic science principles!
Some inaccuracies (such as "NO ELECTRONS FLOWED THROUGH YOUR BODY AT ALL" during a lethal electric shock).
Electromagnetism theory and its physical manifestations all stem from the position and movement of electrical
charges, which is what one learns in physics class at the beginning of the study of electricity and magnetism.
After that it gets a bit more complicated, especially if you want to delve into quantum mechanics.
I have to admit my panties (full rise briefs, actually) were in a bunch after I took them off, bunched them up,
and tossed them onto the laundry pile last night.

bikezappa

[QUOTE=.Get off this AC crap.

It's not crap, it's basic electronics.

You are asking me to speak for DK which I will not.

I just asked if YOU thought AC changed directions.

He made his case for AC current flow. Why do you have such a hard on for it! and then dismiss everything else he writes? Not very scientific of you is it?

Because he makes wrong assumptions about electrical engineering including AC. The fuse noise theory is based on DKs belief that AC electrons only flow in one direction.

I made my statement in the above post and you morph it into your debate with DK as to whether AC goes back and forth!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Cut me a break and stay on MY statement!
\
It's a free forum for comments.

.Here's an article by WILLIAM J. BEATY (Research Engineer) which should really get your panties in a bunch. It gave me something to think about as I've been out of the electronics field and school for quite a few years.

http://amasci.com/amateur/elecdir.html

This article has NO Equations or data, not very useful.

NOTE; this post has been thoroughly spell checked to protect the old and decrepit!

Funny
[/QUOTE]

In the end, and this my last comment about DK's electrical knowledge, you and others will believe what you want with no regard to proven basic EE equations that predict very nicely what circuits will do and not do.

What saddens me is the emails I get from EEs who agree with me but are afraid to go against DKs opinions. What are you afraid of? I would hope that the forum would want to hear from others with knowledge about basic EE.

E=IR, hope I spelled that rite.

megasat16

I know cables make a difference. There are all types of cables for Cat 1, Cat 3, Cat 5, Cat 5e, 1GBE, 10GBE. :eek:

To reduce skin effects on the speaker wires, I use car battery wires 0/1 AWG with the skin peeled and cable lifts and isolators between + and - wires. They works a wonder to supply any AC or DC to my speakers.

I also use ISOClean Fuse when I want to clean up any refusal residual noise from the pre, amps, and sources. For $25 a piece, they are well worth it. I love GOLD in my FUSE!

hearingimpared

bikezappa wrote: »

In the end, and this my last comment about DK's electrical knowledge, you and others will believe what you want with no regard to proven basic EE equations that predict very nicely what circuits will do and not do.

What saddens me is the emails I get from EEs who agree with me but are afraid to go against DKs opinions. What are you afraid of? I would hope that the forum would want to hear from others with knowledge about basic EE.

E=IR, hope I spelled that rite.

Well, okay!, but why are your EEs afraid of going up against DK!?! I surely would love to hear their OPINIONS and what they have as knowledge concerning any topic with audio where it comes to listening to music through various playback gear and systems vs measurements.

BTW one of the things I've experienced, and I know quite a few, about PhDs is their excellent and uncanny ability to think outside the box.

Peter, as far back as I can remember current flows in one direction; from the excess of positive electrons to deficient in negative electrons in an attempt to equalize the potential. When I think about you saying that AC current goes back and forth from an outlet rather than follow a direction, I think about a stopped up toilet and using a plunger. The plunger first forces the water down the toilet drain pipe then sucks it back up through the drain pipe up to the plunger and keeps going like this until the plunger stop pushing and pulling.

BTW right = correct, rite = ritual!:D;)

quadzilla

bikezappa wrote: »

In the end, and this my last comment about DK's electrical knowledge, you and others will believe what you want with no regard to proven basic EE equations that predict very nicely what circuits will do and not do.

What saddens me is the emails I get from EEs who agree with me but are afraid to go against DKs opinions. What are you afraid of? I would hope that the forum would want to hear from others with knowledge about basic EE.

E=IR, hope I spelled that rite.

And equations don't always tell the whole story. Or as I like to say, in theory, theory and practice are identical. But in practice, theory and practice are rarely the same.

Apparently, it's not this group that's afraid. Alternative opinions are welcome. Trolling isn't. And, seriously, the "I get lots of email from people that agree with me but they aren't going to say anything because they're afraid" is about the oldest troll tactic in the book, right after sock puppet accounts.

This is not an accusation, and should not be construed as such, I'm simply pointing out how weak that assertion sounds.

And think about this, if electric potential is converted into work by a device, and if the source of that potential is current and voltage on a line, and if the current simply moves back and forth in a fairly static manner, where does the continuous potential come from in order to do continuous work? As electrons move through the circuit, inefficiencies in the circuit would necessarily return fewer electrons to the line than entered the circuit, not to mention the percentage that were removed from the circuit in order to be converted to something else (heat, sound, light, etc.). Further, electrons themselves move fairly slowly through a wire; i.e. drift speed. It's their charge that moves at about .95 c, not the electrons themselves.

Or you can just look here: http://www.alpharubicon.com/altenergy/understandingAC.htm

So this whole argument is silly. Yes, AC current alternates. Power is net positive over time in any circuit doing work.

fishbones

I don't know whether to be confused..upset...or just sad about where this thread ended up? Such a simple, educational and entertaining thread by DK offering his OPINION of a simple product. Putting forth effort and time to give other members an insight to a product they might have seen but not heard, a product they might have thought about but not tried. Giving them an OPTION.

All I can say is .....THANK GOD YOU CAUGHT HIM!!!
This damn cretin nearly had me convinced that all of the stock fuses in my equipment were absolute trash and must be yanked out immediately before they do any more damage! That these audiophile fuses were going to realign the electrons to a proper order in my equipment and take me to a musical nirvana that used to be only possible in heaven. Thank goodness there are individuals on here smart enough to decipher the break down of molecular physics so this audio hitler can't pull the wool over us neophytes eyes anymore!

DK, you should be ashamed of yourself for taking advantage of us little people with your charming grammar and smarty-pants big words. Now, go to your room and think about what you've done!.....bad DK!..bad DK!

....Now, if anyone (besides DK and a few others) actually have valuable and constructive opinions and....wait for it.........ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with the product, then BY ALL MEANS, we want to hear it! No one cares if you don't agree with the OP, just that you bring something VALUABLE to the table (FYI, trying to convince people that a product doesn't sound good because the wave-lengths on your oscillator told you so....is not valuable input). But....if all you're gonna do is stir the pot, in an attempt to inflate your ego by proving how much you know about molecular properties of energy, then maybe you should spend your time more wisely and constructively by picking bar fights.

....And hopefully you absorb what I have said in here for what it is meant for. If all you take away from this is a DK-defense-tactic....well then....I guess you're not as smart as you pretend to be.

And, btw, I'm not an EE......but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

DarqueKnight

hearingimpared wrote: »

BTW one of the things I've experienced, and I know quite a few, about PhDs is their excellent and uncanny ability to think outside the box.

My experience has been that most of the Ph.D.'s I have worked with, or worked in close proximity to, in industry or in academia had an excellent and uncanny ability to think outside the box only if the box was contained within their familiar, narrow field of expertise. Disasterous results often ensued if they tried to think outside of a box that was not in their area of expertise.

Recall that the ABX audio test cult was started by two Ph.D.'s (one in mathematics and the other in physics).

DarqueKnight

quadzilla wrote: »

And think about this, if electric potential is converted into work by a device, and if the source of that potential is current and voltage on a line, and if the current simply moves back and forth in a fairly static manner, where does the continuous potential come from in order to do continuous work? As electrons move through the circuit, inefficiencies in the circuit would necessarily return fewer electrons to the line than entered the circuit, not to mention the percentage that were removed from the circuit in order to be converted to something else (heat, sound, light, etc.). Further, electrons themselves move fairly slowly through a wire; i.e. drift speed. It's their charge that moves at about .95 c, not the electrons themselves.

As the example above illustrates, it is possible for a fluid medium, like water or electrical charge, to simultaneously exhibit motion in multiple directions. Consider a lake at the top of a mountain and another lake due south at the foot of the mountain. A serpentine, or sinusoidally shaped, river bed is cut into the mountain connecting the two lakes. For someone standing on either side of the river, the flow of water alternately travels east, then reverses direction and travels west. Put another way, first water flows toward and then away from an observer standing on either the east or west river bank. For someone on a boat in the middle of the southern lake, the flow of water is always toward them in a net north to south direction.

cristo

quadzilla wrote: »

And think about this, if electric potential is converted into work by a device, and if the source of that potential is current and voltage on a line, and if the current simply moves back and forth in a fairly static manner, where does the continuous potential come from in order to do continuous work? As electrons move through the circuit, inefficiencies in the circuit would necessarily return fewer electrons to the line than entered the circuit, not to mention the percentage that were removed from the circuit in order to be converted to something else (heat, sound, light, etc.). Further, electrons themselves move fairly slowly through a wire; i.e. drift speed. It's their charge that moves at about .95 c, not the electrons themselves.

xcapri79 wrote: »

Well this brilliant explanation pretty much says it all. But really I need to correct you on a few important points. Electrons are really like people. They are part of the Lepton family. They have personalities. There are good electrons with positive personaliites and bad electrons with negative personalities.

The good electrons push the bad electrons away. The amount of dislike is what we technically call voltage. The number of bad electrons is technically called charge and the rate at which they are pushed away is called current.
You see it really starts to make sense now when you understand electron personality.

Now in some cases, after these bad electrons move and collect in a new locations, they end up disliking each other due to overcrowding and they push each other. When they push back, they go back to where they came from. These electrons going back and forth is technically called alternating current or AC. When they go on a one way trip, that is technically called direct current or DC.

Now with these bad electrons, some are lazy and some actually like to work. The ones that like to work create watts. The lazy electrons cause vars which means no work. The lazy ones like to travel right or left from the working electrons to avoid having to work.

There is more to this personality, but that discussion gets too quarky.

When you understand all of this, you can understand why fuses and cables make a difference and why electrons like some fuses and cables more than others. It is in their personality. At the risk of giving away trade secrets for example, MIT uses a secret recipe in their cables that electons just love so they perform better.

DarqueKnight wrote: »

As the example above illustrates, it is possible for a fluid medium, like water or electrical charge, to simultaneously exhibit motion in multiple directions. Consider a lake at the top of a mountain and another lake due south at the foot of the mountain. A serpentine, or sinusoidally shaped, river bed is cut into the mountain connecting the two lakes. For someone standing on either side of the river, the flow of water alternately travels east, then reverses direction and travels west. Put another way, first water flows toward and then away from an observer standing on either the east or west river bank. For someone on a boat in the middle of the southern lake, the flow of water is always toward them in a net north to south direction.

I want some of the drugs these folks are taking!;)

DarqueKnight

cristo wrote: »

I want some of the drugs these folks are taking!;)

Now that you've gotten that off your chest, do you have any discussion to aid in our understanding, or are troll-like one-liners going to be your only contribution?

cristo wrote: »

Sorry, I'll try to avoid posting troll-like comments and endeavor to express my opinions in a more constructive manner in the future.

Uh-huh.;)

cristo

ok

"As electrons move through the circuit, inefficiencies in the circuit would necessarily return fewer electrons to the line than entered the circuit, not to mention the percentage that were removed from the circuit in order to be converted to something else (heat, sound, light, etc.)."

This is wrong on so many levels. If fewer electrons were returned than entered a circuit
by more than an miniscule fraction, a positive charge would build up in the circuit and
cause it to fly apart or cause a pretty impressive static electricity discharge.
Converting electrons to heat, sound, or light isn't going to happen due to conservation
of charge for one thing. They can dissipate some of their energy to do that, however.

I hope xcapri79 was just trying to be funny. If so, he did a better job than I could have.
Otherwise, my reference to the drugs stands.

Something can't "simultaneously exhibit motion in multiple directions" just because you can think of its motion differently
from several different frames of reference.
Well, maybe if you read a lot of Kurt Vonnegut (one of my favourite authors, actually).

As for avoiding making comments, hey, I said I'd try, I didn't say I'd succeed.

I still can't fathom how a high tech fuse in between the leads to a power supply will make an audible difference
in the audio output of a component.
If people want to point bad interpretations of science at the issue, that won't convince me,
and if they want to say it's magic, that won't convince me either.

That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

Those that can only hear a difference when they know what they're listening to (and feel that double blind testing
is fundamentally flawed) are entitled to their opinions as well, but I don't have to agree with them, either.

heiney9

cristo wrote: »

I still can't fathom how a high tech fuse in between the leads to a power supply will make an audible difference
in the audio output of a component.

Try it, if you haven't then I don't think you can comment on it one way or the other.

H9

DarqueKnight

cristo wrote: »

Something can't "simultaneously exhibit motion in multiple directions" just because you can think of its motion differently from several different frames of reference.

Have you ever watched air being pumped into a spherical balloon?

cristo

Yes, but the individual molecules don't go in several directions at once.
Actually, at the microscopic level, all of them go all over the place with constantly changing
directions and velocities with every collision with a net average movement
from the center to the periphery while the air is being pumped into the balloon.
I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say, but on the other hand,
I don't think that your analogy of the lakes and river illustrates simultaneous
motion in several directions very well. Air into the balloon is a better try.

inspiredsports

xcapri79 wrote: »

Well this brilliant explanation pretty much says it all. But really I need to correct you on a few important points. Electrons are really like people. They are part of the Lepton family. They have personalities. There are good electrons with positive personaliites and bad electrons with negative personalities.

The good electrons push the bad electrons away. The amount of dislike is what we technically call voltage. The number of bad electrons is technically called charge and the rate at which they are pushed away is called current.
You see it really starts to make sense now when you understand electron personality.

Now in some cases, after these bad electrons move and collect in a new locations, they end up disliking each other due to overcrowding and they push each other. When they push back, they go back to where they came from. These electrons going back and forth is technically called alternating current or AC. When they go on a one way trip, that is technically called direct current or DC.

Now with these bad electrons, some are lazy and some actually like to work. The ones that like to work create watts. The lazy electrons cause vars which means no work. The lazy ones like to travel right or left from the working electrons to avoid having to work.

There is more to this personality, but that discussion gets too quarky.

When you understand all of this, you can understand why fuses and cables make a difference and why electrons like some fuses and cables more than others. It is in their personality. At the risk of giving away trade secrets for example, MIT uses a secret recipe in their cables that electons just love so they perform better.

From this post I'm unable to discern if you are for or against boutique electronics products, but you seem to frame a perfect argument as to why measurements alone provide just a fraction of the information necessary to achieve great sound.