Thoughts on Tiger...

heiney9

Demiurge wrote: »

Tiger's success is 100% based on Tiger's performance alone. Jordan could have an off night and the team can still win the game. See my point? Great player, but greatest in all of sports? Not a chance, for me it's Tiger all the way, and I think Federer grabs the 2nd spot.

Everything you've posted in this thread seems defensive, even when the comments that you're responding to are completely innocuous. I didn't say one bad thing about Jordan, all I said is he isnt' the most dominant athlete of all time.

My point is put Jordan on any team and there's an excellent chance they would dominate. Certainly some credit has to go to the coaching staff and Jerry Reinsdorf, etc. Just like in Tiger's case his caddy and swing coaches, etc. Federer has his coaches, etc.

All I'm saying in Tiger's instance is it a given that his success is 100% based on his singular performance. By virtue of the sport there is no other scenario; so it really can't be compared apples to apples with a team sport. Same for Federer and tennis or Sampras and tennis.

I don't mean to come across defensive because comparing a dominate player in an individual sport to a dominate player in a team sport just can't be done. As far as the home run record goes............that was turned into a farce a long time ago. The history of the game held that in high regard but today it means nothing and frankly a team player who is dominate and never makes it to the big dance is not as dominate as a dominate team player who gets his team to the big dance and does it repeatedly.

Example: Charles Barkley, hell of a b-ball player, played with lots of heart and passion and ability but in my mind he's just a step short of the likes of Jordan or Magic or Bird merely because he couldn't dominate enough to get one of his teams to the big dance and win.

Gabriella Sabatini in women's tennis always seemed to be a finalist and didn't win a major (US Open-only one) until right before she retired. Hell of a tennis player, great ability, smart on the court but just didn't quite make it onto my list of great tennis players.

Greg Norman is in my top 5 of Golfers for ability and was fun to watch but not by me considered to be a "greatest" golfer even though he won the British Open twice. He choked too many times when he had the major in the bag.

Anyways..........

H9

avelanchefan

Pretty much everyone has said it all. He is the best in Golf. Period. Is he better than Nicklaus? Probably. But I would have loved to see Tiger play in jacks day with wooden drivers, and "normal" golf balls.

What is weird and almost comical to me, (and not that I would not be the same either), is literally watching a player succomb under the pressure of TW on the final round. I mean I cannot remember one player that has stood up to Tiger on the final day (that played in his group). Maybe Furyk on the final day of the PGA a few years ago where Tiger made that huge undulating putt on the 17th hole. But I can't remember if Jim was in his group or not.

I mean look at this last weekend. The Japanese kid ended up second not Stewart Cink who was in his group and ends up tied for third.

Early B.

markmarc wrote: »

The best part of Tiger's game is mental. When he is focused it scares the hell out of the rest of the players. But I do believe that Jack had much better competition. Lee Trevino, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lenny Watkins, Johnny Miller, etc. etc.. They weren't afraid of Nicklaus. That's the biggest difference, today's tour players fear Tiger. I thought that ended a few years ago, but it seems to have come back in the second half of last year. I hope that Phil Mickelson doesn't fade, as he is the only one who wants to compete IMHO.

Phil doesn't have the mental fortitude to be a major competitor to Tiger. Phil has a tendency to fall apart at the end the final round. And I'm a Phil fan, too, because he's a lefty.

People talk about Tiger's mental toughness, but he still has a long way to go. He can get emotional when he misses a shot, and someone with a stronger mental attitude would not be bothered by it. It's a sign of his youth. Hopefully, he'll get beyond that in a couple of years.

Demiurge

heiney9 wrote: »

All I'm saying in Tiger's instance is it a given that his success is 100% based on his singular performance. By virtue of the sport there is no other scenario; so it really can't be compared apples to apples with a team sport. Same for Federer and tennis or Sampras and tennis.

This is all that needs to be said. That's why Tiger and Federer are all the more impressive. Athletes in non-team sports can't have a down day and still pull off the big win.

Any athlete in a team sport can have a down day and others on a team can step up their performance and win a game -- it happens all the time.

It's not like I am making controversial statements here. Now, say I wanted to push your buttons a bit -- Kobe Bryant and LeBron James are giving Air Jordan a run for his money.

At 24 Kobe had 3 rings. At 24 Jordan had zero. Kobes stats are far more impressive at that age, and they're only going to continue to get better.

I realize Kobe is a friggin' **** nozzle of the highest order, but his dominance in the NBA is hard to argue with. All LeBron is missing are championships, but there's not a team out there who wouldn't love to have him...

heiney9

Demiurge wrote: »

This is all that needs to be said. That's why Tiger and Federer are all the more impressive. Athletes in non-team sports can't have a down day and still pull off the big win.

Any athlete in a team sport can have a down day and others on a team can step up their performance and win a game -- it happens all the time.

It's not like I am making controversial statements here. Now, say I wanted to push your buttons a bit -- Kobe Bryant and LeBron James are giving Air Jordan a run for his money.

At 24 Kobe had 3 rings. At 24 Jordan had zero. Kobes stats are far more impressive at that age, and they're only going to continue to get better.

I realize Kobe is a friggin' **** nozzle of the highest order, but his dominance in the NBA is hard to argue with. All LeBron is missing are championships, but there's not a team out there who wouldn't love to have him...

But Tiger can have a bad round and still win so he doesn't have to bring his A+ game every single round in order to win a tourney. That's all I have to say because I agree more than I disagree.

Kobe is a **** and I really hope LeBron can bring the NBA back to like it was when you had the Barkley's, Magic's, Jordan's. Me personally, I have become more and more disconnected with many sports because I'm just sick of the entitlement many athletes feel they deserve and all the crap that surrounds what is now termed "professional" sports. I follow golf, tennis and football and some of the racing series on Speed channel, that's about it. I will watch the Cubs but I'm just not as into them, or baseball for that matter, as much as I used to be because of all the steroids crap and Barry Bonds.

I admit I was angry with Tiger when he first came on the scene. I thought he was going to be a flash in the pan and all the attention and accolades bestowed upon him very early on weren't earned. I've done a 180 degree about face and consider him to be one of the great athletes of his generation regardless of sport. But, because I'm old enough to remember much of Jack's legacy first hand I still have a soft spot for Jack Nicklaus. Right at this moment still give him the edge as the greatest Golfer to play the game. That will change, I'm sure.

H9

Dennis Gardner

If his health/body holds out, Tiger will rewrite every meaningful record before he leaves the game and he will do it younger and faster than anyone, then quickly retire from active competition all by the age of 40. He could easily win over 20 majors and 100 tourneys.

Then he will be the best ever to play the game..........


I would haved like to see Jack and Tiger head to head, as I think it would be a tossup each week.

heiney9

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

I would haved like to see Jack and Tiger head to head, as I think it would be a tossup each week.

Wouldn't that be fun. Talk about a ratings booster. He really has no consistent peers at this point; there are a few that have challenged him over the years but the challenges aren't consistent and the players aren't consistent, and most of the time he won by a wide margin.

[Deleted User]

I could beat Tiger! When he could no longer hold his nike irons! On a side note, I went to Tulsa last year to watch him play. He is a lot bigger in person then on TV. That guy is amazing! I wish I could be his caddie. (hmm, caddie takes 15 percent right? I could then outbid all the others for the special upcoming polks signed by Mr Polk himself)

Systems

markmarc wrote: »

, today's tour players fear Tiger. I thought that ended a few years ago, but it seems to have come back in the second half of last year.

A few years ago when Vijay took over the number one ranking it was being said Tigers competition was catching up to him,and they did for a short while.Now he seems more dominant than ever.

I hope that Phil Mickelson doesn't fade, as he is the only one who wants to compete IMHO.

Didn't Phil beat Tiger head to head at a tournament in 07?He seems to be the best hope to give Tiger some competition.

PolkThug

MJ > Tiger

I've owned a pair of Air Jordans, but never a pair of Air Tigers.

daboyz

Maybe the reason the guys fear Tiger nowadays is that they all know they aren't good enough. Please don't tell me those guys didn't fear and respect Nicklaus. They were just a lot more talented than Tiger's peers. There are a lot of one and done Major winners now. I'm a Mickelson man myself and feel he has the talent to play with Tiger but he definitely doesn't have the resolve.

heiney9

Mickelson has the physical talent and the shot ability but his big weakness is his mental game. Golf, and individual sports in general, rely heavily on mental toughness. TW has the mental toughness and confidence to go for it. MJ had the same attribute as do many other great athletes at the top of their sport.

Demiurge

Systems

heiney9 wrote: »

Mickelson .... his big weakness is his mental game.

Yes he has had a tendency to fold up like a cheap tent when facing TW.But agreed he has all the other tools necessary.

[Deleted User]

Demiurge- Hey, T.O. is a team player! His tears were protection for the uncanny performance of his leader that held onto the ball instead of passing it and intentional grounding when he had a wall in front of him!

Demiurge

Hey, I have my own QB to worry about up here.

wingnut4772

He seems like a class act to me.

Systems

Demiurge wrote: »

Hey, I have my own QB to worry about up here.

Dang I wanted to see that old man BF make it to the SB.He had an unexpectedly good season.

markmarc

Mickelson's weakness to me is that he believes that you win by playing boldly all the time, instead of managing the game. I admire his go for broke mindset, but his swing just doesn't have the compactness to work that way.

I would have loved to see Woods and Nicklaus compete at their height, I firmly believe Jack would have won. He's mentally tougher and had far better control of his anger.

heiney9

markmarc wrote: »

Mickelson's weakness to me is that he believes that you win by playing boldly all the time, instead of managing the game. I admire his go for broke mindset, but his swing just doesn't have the compactness to work that way.

That is exactly how Tiger plays, he goes for every shot but he has the confidence and the shot ability to succeed time after time after time. I've never seen Tiger play timidly or lay up or lag a put, etc. He goes for it and if he screws it up he usually is able to hit a fantastic recovery shot. Sure there have been times where Tiger has fallen apart he is human but he continues to amaze me with his constant shot making ability in almost any situation.

H9

mrbigbluelight

I believe it was "Golf" magazine (or "Golfweek" ?) that did a secret poll of caddies on the PGA tour last year.
The question was, "Which pro golfer is the biggest dickhead ?".
(not the exact question, but that was the gist of it).

The winner ?

Phil Mickelson, hands down.

That didn't suprise me. Watch him when he chokes on a tee shot, or an approach shot, and the ball winds up in the middle of the next county.
He'll turn and give his caddy a look that says, "That's your fault !".

Hey ! You're the dude with the club in his hand !

Several years ago, he had a caddy quit on him in the third round of a major
(I think it was a major; my memory isn't what it used to be).
Why ?
He got tired of Michelson's crap.



Regarding Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan:

The rules in golf were changed to hold Tiger Woods back.
The rules in basketball were ignored to promote Michael Jordan (re: travelling).

avelanchefan

After watching Phil muck it up over and over again. Especially on Putts less than 3 feet, I have resorted to calling him Mill Phuckelson.

fatchowmein

Lance Armstrong anybody?

Is Tiger the most dominant sports player? Well, my mother who does not watch sports, play sports, and will not advocate sports has heard of Michael Jordan, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Lance Armstrong, Troy Aikman, Mike Tyson, and Muhammad Ali. Yet, she watches Tiger Woods religiously on TV. She has no idea what an iron, wood, green, sandtrap, divot, slice, birdie, eagle, or par is but she'll sit there and watch Tiger Woods because he's the best.

AsSiMiLaTeD

A Jack-Tiger competition would be interesting for sure. When Jack was playing, did they do the same with changing the courses because of him?

Yeah the equipment is better today, but they've also changes the courses to compensate, so that's a wash in my mind.

landry_p2000

avelanchefan wrote: »

After watching Phil muck it up over and over again. Especially on Putts less than 3 feet, I have resorted to calling him Mill Phuckelson.

LMFAO. That's a good one.:D

I have never watched golf in my life, but I was curious to know what all the fuss was about, and when I saw Tiger playing I know why he is as great as he is. I always found golf boring when I was younger, but now that I have watched it a few times, I enjoy it.
On a different note, John Daley is nuts. I watched him chuck a golf club into orbit on several PGA tours.

mark090852

At the entrance to the Ohio State University Scarlet and Gray golf courses in Columbus, Ohio, is a large stone sign/monument that reads:

"The Ohio State University Golf Courses, collegiate home of Jack Nicklaus, the world's greatest golfer."

'nuff said.

Dennis Gardner

mark090852 wrote: »

At the entrance to the Ohio State University Scarlet and Gray golf courses in Columbus, Ohio, is a large stone sign/monument that reads:

"The Ohio State University Golf Courses, collegiate home of Jack Nicklaus, the world's greatest golfer."

'nuff said.

Looks like a premature erection to me.................

Demiurge

mark090852 wrote: »

At the entrance to the Ohio State University Scarlet and Gray golf courses in Columbus, Ohio, is a large stone sign/monument that reads:

"The Ohio State University Golf Courses, collegiate home of Jack Nicklaus, the world's greatest golfer."

'nuff said.

When I sit down to drop a deuce in the morning I feel like a king sitting on my throne too.

AsSiMiLaTeD

mark090852 wrote: »

At the entrance to the Ohio State University Scarlet and Gray golf courses in Columbus, Ohio, is a large stone sign/monument that reads:

"The Ohio State University Golf Courses, collegiate home of Jack Nicklaus, the world's greatest golfer."

'nuff said.

Yeah I'm not so sure that really answers anything...

AsSiMiLaTeD

I heard someone mention this morning:

If you took his world ranking score, and split it in two, he'd still be in first place and have enough points left over to take second place as well...