Thoughts on Tiger...

AsSiMiLaTeD

I'm not sure if we've discussed this before, but don't recall it, so here goes.

Is there really any questions that he's the best in golf right now? I know plenty of people don't like him for various reasons, but I've not yet heard a convincing argument that he's not the best player today.

So then, what about the best golfer of all time?

What about the most dominant person in their respective sport today, and of all time?

I wonder what it's like waking up every morning knowing "I'm the best person in the world at what I do. There are 6 billion people on Earth, and I'm better at my profession that every single one of them"? I'm not saying that's the first thought that runs through his mind, but still, how many other people in sports, or any other profession for that matter, can claim that?

he comes across as a decent enough guy, probably an **** in real life though.

Still, I've always been a fan, but don't know how I can basically loathe the Patriots, Yankees, and Lakers for the same reasons I like him. That's a fair question, I don't have a good answer at the moment.

Thoughts?

jdhdiggs

There have been some F1 drivers that had dominated their sports like him and Federer and Sampras have some comparable strings of dominance in Tennis. MJ/Wilt Chamberlin are a good arguments as well. And then there's Wayne Gretzky... Who was probably the only one more dominant.

As for best golfer of all time, I'd have to say yes... unless there was another golfer that had rule changes put in place to try and bring him back to the field (which backfired in a big way on the PGA tour)

Strong Bad

I'm willing to bet the first thing that comes to his mind when he wakes up is..."Holy **** my wife is f***ing hot!!!"

Seriously, I dig Tiger Woods. He's damn good and thats it! People like to argue about it, ****, cry, hate and whatever, but the guy goes out and beats everyone fair and square. If ya don't like it, grab some clubs and beat him.

I think when all is said and done, he will be the greatest ever! Sorry Jack!

John

Early B.

I would argue that Tiger's playing ability has elevated the game of golf significantly, not only for the players, but for the entire sport. Other than Muhammad Ali, I'm not sure anyone else has done that, not even MJ or Wayne G.

And just think -- Tiger may not have reached his peak yet. In golf years, he's still young.

treitz3

Thoughts? Tiger kicks some serious ****! I'd hate to be a professional golfer playing against him, that's for sho'.

Jstas

I thought this thread was about operating systems and was all ready to go super-nerd and blast Polkmaniac for dwelling on Tiger when Leopard was released a couple of weeks ago.

I'm pathetic.

heiney9

Tiger Woods is to Golf what Michael Jordan was to Basketball. If I didn't believe it I would say Woods is channeling M.J. Their career paths, dominance, work ethic, competitiveness, understanding and skill for their particular sport are exactly the same and pretty much unparalleled among their piers.

Lot's of people hated Jordan in his day and still like to bash him the same goes for Tiger to a certain degree. He's the real deal just as MJ was.......PERIOD.

My all time favorite golfer is Jack Nicklaus and early on in Tiger's career I was a Tiger doubter because I didn't want him to eclipse who I thought was the greatest golfer of all time. But, he is and he is the best right now and may be considered the best of all time.

I don't nec. believe in stating certain athletes are the best if all time because there are so many athletes that deserve to be called the best over the lifetime of the sport.

H9

Demiurge

He's the single most dominant player in his sport of all time. Even better than M.J. Jordan was great, but he had a supporting cast. Tiger has himself.

daboyz

Jack and Tiger are different eras. Tiger still has a little way to go to reach Jack. He still is all time in Majors won and hell he finished 2nd as many times as he won. As to Tigerproofing,there was a great player(I'm not sure which) said of Nicklaus: "He plays a game I am totally unfamiliar with".

heiney9

Early B. wrote: »

I would argue that Tiger's playing ability has elevated the game of golf significantly, not only for the players, but for the entire sport. Other than Muhammad Ali, I'm not sure anyone else has done that, not even MJ or Wayne G.

And just think -- Tiger may not have reached his peak yet. In golf years, he's still young.

You can argue that, I don't agree. I don't see any of the players playing all that much better than they did before he started dominating. MJ elevated the play of his teammates like no other player I remember. Sure when it came down to crunch time, it was MJ's show and he rarely failed to deliver.

Me thinks you are forgetting how dominate the Bulls were for almost a decade. It was absolutely fantastic when he came back for the 2nd "three-peat". The 72-10 season was a phenomenal season for any sport and much like Tiger, MJ had people watching basketball that never did before or after his playing career.

Tiger is doing many of the same things for Golf that Jordan did for basketball. There certainly were great players before Jordan and there certainly were great Golfers before Tiger. I would hesitate to call one player, of any sport, the greatest ever because it's very difficult to compare across era's of the sport.

Innovations to equipment, rule changes, level of surrounding players, advances in medicine and the ability to take the human body to new physical levels with exercise, muscle building etc, etc. makes it difficult to compare all athletes in a given sport to everyone who ever played the sport and declare a "greatest".

heiney9

Demiurge wrote: »

He's the single most dominant player in his sport of all time. Even better than M.J. Jordan was great, but he had a supporting cast. Tiger has himself.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in awhile. The reason Jordan had a supporting cast was because it was a TEAM sport. He made everyone around him a better player.................period!! And the Bulls organization would never have gotten (6) rings and (2) runs of three-peats without him.

Tiger has himself because it's an individual sport.

Sheesh, what assbackward logic.

treitz3

Damn Heiney, tell us what's on your mind.

AsSiMiLaTeD

It's not like Demi said jordan sucks because he played on a team...jeezus

He makes a good point, there were other good players on that team besides him that helped them win. Obviously Jordan wasn't the only good player on that Bulls team, or else we'd have seen him repeat the success with the Wizzards...

heiney9

It just struck me a certain way and I know how Demi can be . He tells it like it is too! Me, I get tired of the Jordan doubting, it just struck me wrong.

Tiger and MJ could be the same person if they lived in different lifetimes. It's quite scary. The biggest thing that's sets them and other great players apart, of any sport, is the mental fortitude. Obviously they have the skill to play the sport at a high level but it's the will to win and the mental toughness that allow players like them to dominate to such a high degree.

H9

heiney9

Polkmaniac wrote: »

It's not like Demi said jordan sucks because he played on a team...jeezus

He makes a good point, there were other good players on that team besides him that helped them win. Obviously Jordan wasn't the only good player on that Bulls team, or else we'd have seen him repeat the success with the Wizzards...

****, that "comeback" was a joke and they never had a chance. He certainly had a few very good players around him, but not a single one (except Rodman) had won anything prior to coming to the Bulls and none of them (except Steve Kerr) won anything after he left. Pippen couldn't get them to the finals the year Jordan left (to play baseball) and Pippen never did anything in his career after his run with the Bulls.

Anyways we are getting off topic a little bit.

Early B.

heiney9 wrote: »

Tiger is doing many of the same things for Golf that Jordan did for basketball.

I think if you look at the numbers -- the additional number of TV viewers when Tiger is playing who otherwise wouldn't watch golf, the amount of money the PGA has made from him, the number of people playing the sport as a result of Tiger's influence, etc. MJ was undoubtedly a great player, but he didn't elevate the sport of basketball and the NBA to the level Tiger has done for golf.

Shizelbs

I felt just watching the leading group on Sunday was pretty emblematic of Tiger's excellence. He was just hitting shots that the other guys couldn't. I think it was on the 18th, they all had their approach shots into a somewhat tight pin location, Tiger stuck it, no one else was nearly as close.

I'd say Federer is the next closest as fas as domination of a sport goes.

cubdog

When Tiger is done no one else will even be in the conversation. And I'm a Mickelson guy.

cubdog

Mazeroth

Tiger is the greatest golfer of all time, and quite possibly the most dominate player of any sport, ever. If you look at the competition out now and what there was back in the day there's no comparison. There are a TON more serious golfers today that Tiger continuously dominates which makes Tiger look even that much better.

I also like to think I'm a pretty good judge of character and I have nothing negative to say about Tiger at all. He is a very grateful human being and is very appreciative for what he has. Heck, the guy doesn't even play in half of the events so the other guys will have a chance to earn a paycheck!

heiney9

Early B. wrote: »

I think if you look at the numbers -- the additional number of TV viewers when Tiger is playing who otherwise wouldn't watch golf, the amount of money the PGA has made from him, the number of people playing the sport as a result of Tiger's influence, etc. MJ was undoubtedly a great player, but he didn't elevate the sport of basketball and the NBA to the level Tiger has done for golf.

I believe all the Bull's Finals had the largest share of viewers at the time and I don't believe it's been bettered by any NBA team since. Also many of the major network reg. season games pulled in the highest share of viewers consistently which has never been matched either.

Where there was Jordan there was big money for all involved and many more people watched Basketball during his time than ever before and frankly, after. The gap may not have been as wide with Jordan and the NBA as it is with Tiger and the PGA but they aren't as far apart as you think. Tiger has improved viewer ship but he hasn't closed a gap the size of the Grand Canyon or anything like that. Both he and Jordan brought/bring casual viewers into the fold on very regular basis.

Danny Tse

Polkmaniac wrote: »

What about the most dominant person in their respective sport today, and of all time?

Ice skater Michelle Kwan....

Won an unprecedented 43 championships; only woman in figure skating history to reclaim the World title three times (1998, 2000, 2003); eight consecutive U.S. Championship titles (1998-2005) and 12 straight U.S. Championship medals (1994-2005) are U.S. records; has received 57 perfect 6.0 marks in major competitions throughout career, most of any skater in history.

They forgot to mention she's also 5-times World Champion.

And she's only 27 years old.

audiobliss

Danny Tse wrote: »

Ice skater Michelle Kwan....



They forgot to mention she's also 5-times World Champion.

And she's only 27 years old.

Holy crap!!! :eek:

How'd you like to enter a competition against her?!

Early B.

heiney9 wrote: »

I believe all the Bull's Finals had the largest share of viewers at the time and I don't believe it's been bettered by any NBA team since. Also many of the major network reg. season games pulled in the highest share of viewers consistently which has never been matched either.

Where there was Jordan there was big money for all involved and many more people watched Basketball during his time than ever before and frankly, after. The gap may not have been as wide with Jordan and the NBA as it is with Tiger and the PGA but they aren't as far apart as you think. Tiger has improved viewer ship but he hasn't closed a gap the size of the Grand Canyon or anything like that. Both he and Jordan brought/bring casual viewers into the fold on very regular basis.

Personally speaking, MJ didn't inspire me to play basketball, but I'll be damned if I didn't buy some clubs and take a few lessons when Tiger started roaming the fairways!

treitz3

What about what Dale Sr. and what he did to NASCAR? No love?

bernardo

Danny Tse wrote: »

Ice skater Michelle Kwan....



They forgot to mention she's also 5-times World Champion.

And she's only 27 years old.

Yeah, quite a career. The only "problem" is that she never won olympic gold It probably wasn't meant to be...

Danny Tse

bernardo wrote: »

Yeah, quite a career. The only "problem" is that she never won olympic gold It probably wasn't meant to be...

Just a silver and a bronze, although she's still eligible for the 2010 games.

polkmaniac wrote:

I wonder what it's like waking up every morning knowing "I'm the best person in the world at what I do. There are 6 billion people on Earth, and I'm better at my profession that every single one of them"? I'm not saying that's the first thought that runs through his mind, but still, how many other people in sports, or any other profession for that matter, can claim that?

Well, I've had those thoughts before....although not to that magnitude. Up to about 8 months, I was the only person in the whole state gov't processing certain claims (over $300 million yearly) for low-income families. Since I am the only person doing it, I felt that I was better at it than the other 20+ million Californians....well, except for the guy who trained me.

bernardo

Danny Tse wrote: »

Just a silver and a bronze, although she's still eligible for the 2010 games.

Yes I know. I wonder if she´ll try again, it can't be easy to compete against the younger girls which in her sport are *really* young.
I have no doubt she deserves one, plus she stayed amateur while some of her peers after one successful try went on to make some money as pro, right?

I bet she would change one of those world championships for a gold medal

heiney9

Early B. wrote: »

Personally speaking, MJ didn't inspire me to play basketball, but I'll be damned if I didn't buy some clubs and take a few lessons when Tiger started roaming the fairways!

I see where you are coming from. However, the individual sport and team sport have a completely different dynamic. I bet many would choose to play tennis because of Roger Federer vs. Hockey because of Wayne Gretzsky, if they held both sports in the same regard. It's simpler and easier to go out and play/start playing an individual sport vs. a team sport regardless of who you are motivated by.

H9

Demiurge

heiney9 wrote: »

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in awhile. The reason Jordan had a supporting cast was because it was a TEAM sport. He made everyone around him a better player.................period!! And the Bulls organization would never have gotten (6) rings and (2) runs of three-peats without him.

Tiger has himself because it's an individual sport.

Sheesh, what assbackward logic.

Really? :rolleyes:

Why is the home run record one of the most revered in all of sports? It's those individual achievements that defines dominance by one particular athlete. It's also what makes Tigers dominance that much greater than athletes in team sports.

I wasn't doubting Michael Jordan, he's the greatest basketball player ever, although Wilt Chamberlain is still right up there. So I would accept other arguments on that subject.

I know the Bulls never would have gotten the championships without him, but you make it sounds like he had Jerry's Kids as his supporting cast. Tiger's success is 100% based on Tiger's performance alone. Jordan could have an off night and the team can still win the game. See my point? Great player, but greatest in all of sports? Not a chance, for me it's Tiger all the way, and I think Federer grabs the 2nd spot.

Everything you've posted in this thread seems defensive, even when the comments that you're responding to are completely innocuous. I didn't say one bad thing about Jordan, all I said is he isnt' the most dominant athlete of all time.

Danny Tse

bernardo wrote: »

Yes I know. I wonder if she´ll try again, it can't be easy to compete against the younger girls which in her sport are *really* young.

I have no doubt she deserves one, plus she stayed amateur while some of her peers after one successful try went on to make some money as pro, right?

I bet she would change one of those world championships for a gold medal

I hope she retires as an amateur without the Olympic gold medal. Her other achievements showed her dominance and excellence over an extended period of time instead of just being good in one four-minute program. Don't forget my post above doesn't mention her 2nd or 3rd place finishes, which are nothing to sneeze at.

As for exchanging one of her World Championships for an Olympic gold medal, I remember her saying "I didn't lose the gold; I won the silver" after winning the silver medal.

It's kind of strange to think a 27 year old athlete is considered old.

markmarc

The best part of Tiger's game is mental. When he is focused it scares the hell out of the rest of the players. But I do believe that Jack had much better competition. Lee Trevino, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Lenny Watkins, Johnny Miller, etc. etc.. They weren't afraid of Nicklaus. That's the biggest difference, today's tour players fear Tiger. I thought that ended a few years ago, but it seems to have come back in the second half of last year. I hope that Phil Mickelson doesn't fade, as he is the only one who wants to compete IMHO.