Capacitor shootout

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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,990
    edited January 2011
    63V & 75V.
    Where thing get "complicated" is the the conflict of capacitance* & space. Cap w/values 10Kuf to 22Kuf*?
    * higher values take up more space

    I'd like 2-4 caps per channel; 20Kuf+ per channel (75V) & 40Kuf+ per channel (63V)
    Some guys like to add a smaller value cap to the big PS caps for better transients.
    I'm interested in this too.

    Thanks Tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    I need help with a poly cap value on my 300B amp. The cap itself says .05 2000DC 430P. Does that makes sense to anyone?
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    Great help from Mark (CoolJazz) on my cap issue. They are Sprague 430P .05mfd 2000v and I'm not going to be changing them out as they are a more rare value, and seem to be decent cap to begin with.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    63V & 75V.
    Where thing get "complicated" is the the conflict of capacitance* & space. Cap w/values 10Kuf to 22Kuf*?
    * higher values take up more space

    I'd like 2-4 caps per channel; 20Kuf+ per channel (75V) & 40Kuf+ per channel (63V)

    I'm interested in this too.

    Thanks Tony

    80V 10000uf Snap In Radial High-temp Low ESR

    You could get a number of these caps and use them to easily configure 20Kuf 75v and 40Kuf 63v as they are 10Kuf and 80v each.

    31-9100.jpg
    Jake
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,990
    edited January 2011
    how do ELNA FOR AUDIO stack up against other favorites?

    Brand : Elna Capacitor
    Type : Elna For Audio
    Colour : Black
    Capital colour : Gold
    Capacitance : 12000 uf
    Volt : 63 V

    Diameter : 35 mm
    Height : 50 mm
    Lead pitch : 15 mm

    w/ shipping works out to about $8 each

    tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited January 2011
    The Elna's will be perfectly fine.Unlike when used for signal coupling I'm of the opinion that the sonic differences between modern 'lytics' are miniscule when used for main power supply filtering,assuming similar values.


    btw.I assume they have a temp rating of 105 deg.which indicates a longer life expectancy.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    I've been chatting with Jantzen Audio and I think am going to get some of their Z-Cap Silver Gold capacitors to try. Since I've used their Z-Cap Silver, Superior, Standard, and Crosscaps with success, I asked Iwona what the difference was between the Silver and the Silver Gold caps. The main difference is in the foil from which capacitors are winded. Silver Cap is made from the same foil as Superior but with pure silver lead wires, while Silver Gold Cap uses 99% silver and 1% gold metalized polypropylene instead.

    I'm doing a 300B amplifier upgrade, so a mix of Silver Gold and Silver caps should yield interesting results.
    Jake
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited January 2011
    Hey guys,, not tring to derail,,but I's like some advice,,here we go,I have a pair of Quicksilver M-80 monoblock amps,,PTP wiring,,as they get older I am considering replacing the electrolytics with the same uF value with a slightly higher voltage rating(after I measure the actual voltage),if necessary.So,,any suggestions regarding brand/type of electrolytic caps for electronics? Thanks in advance
    :smile:
    George
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited January 2011
    I assume for power supply filtering , there are a number of good choices like Cornell,UCC,Nichicon ,Panasonic.Look for something with low impedance and a 105 deg. temp. rating as they will have a longer life cycle.
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    I would go with Nichicon George if the values are appropriate. They make a great product that is well priced. Ruby Gold also makes good electrolytic caps, but they have only have lower values.

    I about about to install a pair of Bennic 1000uf electrolytics to replace a pair of Panasonics in my T-Amp. I can report back later to let you know if their electrolytic caps are a good product also, but don't want to make a recommendation yet as I have not heard them.
    Jake
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited January 2011
    Thanks Zingo-- let me know please sir. :smile:

    Thank you too Fred-- you should be gettin' something in the mail soon. :wink:
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited January 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    Thank you too Fred-- you should be gettin' something in the mail soon. :wink:
    Awesome thanks George,perfect timing.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,213
    edited January 2011
    Panasonics are great for power filtering. If Nelson Pass uses them then they must "Pass" the test. Nichicon are nice as well, but Panasonic has more value choices. He's been know to recommend and in some cases use Mallory caps as well.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,990
    edited January 2011
    ...Metal film resistors are THE prefered resistor, low noise etc, right?? I can change an EXO frequency with resistors

    thanks tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited January 2011
    gp4jesus wrote: »
    ...Metal film resistors are THE prefered resistor, low noise etc, right??
    In electronics yes,though bulk foils are superior but at many times the cost.Wirewounds and Metal Oxides are the norm for passive XO's as metal films are not available at high enough wattage ratings.
    I can change an EXO frequency with resistors
    An active crossovers frequency can be changed with a change in resistor value,but in a passive XO the resistors are used for attenuation and response shaping.To change crossover frequency in a passive network you would alter capacitor and inductor values.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,739
    edited January 2011
    george daniel wrote: »
    So,,any suggestions regarding brand/type of electrolytic caps for electronics? Thanks in advance
    :smile:
    George

    I'm changing a bunch of PS caps in my tube pre amp as two of them were ready to blow. As Black Gate is out of business I had to do some research and decided to go with Panasonic.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2011
    Don't forget Jensen.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,739
    edited January 2011
    They don't make the values I need.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,990
    edited January 2011
    FTGV wrote: »
    In electronic [XOs] yes. Bulk foils are superior but at many times the cost. An active crossovers frequency can be changed with a change in resistor value...
    "Sounds like" metal films offer big bang for the buck in electronic XOs. thanks
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED, Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga: LCR mids “Foamed & Plugged**”, inside* & out
    8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out
    *soldered **Rob the Man (Xschop) LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & Mids - 981, connected w/Monoprice Premiere ICs
    Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited January 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Panasonics are great for power filtering. If Nelson Pass uses them then they must "Pass" the test. Nichicon are nice as well, but Panasonic has more value choices. He's been know to recommend and in some cases use Mallory caps as well.


    Brock,, I like the way that you worked Nelson Pass's name into this. :wink:
    I think that I'm gonna go with the Panasonic series--thanks all for the replies and suggestions
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    zingo wrote: »
    Bennic 1000 mfd Electrolytic Caps

    M1000.jpg


    ClarityCap 2.2 mfd ESA Range Polypropylene Caps

    esa2-2.jpg

    I just got these caps in yesterday, and the Bennics are larger than the ClarityCaps! I'm quite sure how they are going to fit into my little T-Amp chassis, but I'm sure I'll make it work... :tongue:
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    Before:

    s63u4l.jpg

    After:

    1zyj5ty.jpg
    Jake
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  • ben62670
    ben62670 Posts: 15,969
    edited January 2011
    Wow Zingo you stuffed that box pretty full. Give it some time and get another thread going on how it sounds.
    Please. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
    Thanks
    Ben
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    I replaced the Bennic 2.2uF input capacitors with ClarityCap ESAs. This provided better depth, body, and clarity, giving the T20U a more expansive, fuller and overall more musical sound. I also replace the stock 1000uF tank capacitors with MUCH larger Bennic electrolytic caps which provided tighter, more powerful bass, improved dynamics and better channel separation. Class D amps can be more effected by cables than regular amps, and the same proved true with capacitors. As soon as I flipped on the amp I could hear all the improvement, even before any burn-in! I'm excited to see how this amp evolves, but I have never heard such a dramatic improvement in SQ with cap upgrades than with this amp.

    Comparing it to my newly upgraded Shuguang Treasure 300B amp, the tubes still provided better tone with more body and life, but the T20U+PSU was still very impressive. I'm really enjoying this Tripath amp, and it you have not heard an upgraded version of one of their better amps, it's worth a listen.
    Jake
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    I've been busy once again... :biggrin:

    Before:

    219vzx5.jpg

    After:

    2v8nw93.jpg
    Jake
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited January 2011
    You may want to reconsider the Standard Z caps.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    The Standard Z caps are not in key locations, so don't you worry. :biggrin: (Plus I wanted to go with all Jantzen caps, and that is the only line for which they have 100uf) For the coupling caps and other signal carrying locations, I used a combination of Jantzen Silver Gold caps and Silver caps. They are already a nice improvement over stock sound with only a few hours on them, and mixing very well with the Shuguang Treasure tubes and circuit. :biggrin: This amp is the best I've ever used on my speakers, and the high sensitivity Klipsch's are right at home with it.
    Jake
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    edited January 2011
    ^ Reported
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • JimAckley
    JimAckley Posts: 1,138
    edited January 2011
    IMO, this thread should be a sticky
    - Computer Rig -
    YAΘIN MS-20L, polkaudio RT5

    - Main Rig -
    Pioneer SC-37, Overnight Sensations, Samsung 52" LCD

    - Currently In Progress -
    Curt Campbell's Uluwatu LCR, LMS Ultra Gjallarhorn, JBL W15GTi stereo subs, 2.1 entertainment system for the gf
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited January 2011
    300B amp upgrade follow-up:

    I have to say that the Jantzen Silver Gold Z-Caps are my new reference for in signal path caps. They have a fantastically natural and clear sound that takes my Treasure 300Bs to the next level. I'm using them as coupling caps in that amp, and couldn't be more pleased. Being that they are 99% silver and 1% gold metalized polypropylene with solid silver leads, they would also be very interesting in speaker crossovers. I'll continue to burn-in the new caps, but I can't image them getting any better.

    silver-gold-725.jpg
    Jake
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