Capacitor shootout

heiney9

I have to tell you Mike now that I have about 30 hours on the Clarity PX series caps in my 5B's, I'm really digging them. They are much smoother and coherent than the Solen was on the high pass. And they are less shouty and have sweetness that just keeps improving. They have a bit more air and transparency, all very noticeable over the Solen. I can't wait until I hit 100-150 hour mark.

Can't even imagine how good the higher line CC's are.

H9

ben62670

{Putting on my flame suit} I am not a huge fan of RDO's(no I didn't say they sucked), But I have found them too laid back in my experience with them. I have some 1C XO's that I want to do with Dayton's on the shunts, and Claritycaps on the highs. I have a few friends local with the 1C's that I hope to do a shootout with. They are running Sonicaps high and low and 194's. If I have to look further for volunteers I will. I have never liked the ringing of the caps when being plucked. I have thought of wrapping them with dynamat to deaden them.
Thanks for the write up Face.
Ben

F1nut

Thanks for sharing your findings Mike.

One last thing, I've recently learned that the quality of shunt caps can influence sound quality more than I initially though.

That's what I've been saying for a long time. My experience is limited compared to yours, but I've found Sonicap's make great shunt caps. What's your fancy?

Face

F1nut wrote: »

That's what I've been saying for a long time. My experience is limited compared to yours, but I've found Sonicap's make great shunt caps. What's your fancy?

It's only recently that I started comparing caps in the shunt position, and most of it has been in midrange shunts and tweeter zobels. That said, any of the above caps will do a fine job. I'll follow up with more tomorrow.

F1nut

Oki doki

Face

Recently, I started to compare caps in tweeter zobels, notch filters, midrange and woofer shunts. The biggest differences I found were in the tweeter notch filters and midrange shunt. In both cases I found differences in timbre and dynamics. Where a pair of Clarity MR's were too harsh in line with the mid, in the shunt position they were more than acceptable.

Last week I swapped out a pair of MR's with a pair of SA's in the woofer circuit of my big Tannoys. Before making any final assertions, I need to break them in, but as of right now I'm disappointed. Dynamics did suffer a little, and low end bass isn't as tight. I'll check back in a few weeks when they're broken in.

CoolJazz

Face wrote: »

I'm tempted to try what Wilson does and experiment with encapsulating my crossovers in a resin, but I sometimes I like to swap parts from one speaker to another. Plus there's the thought of making a mistake and ruining parts. Maybe I'll try it with cheaper components first.

Another way I've seen it done is to encapsulate a capacitor in a wood block.

I've also heard of "listening" to capacitor with a stethoscope. Compare different designs by just how microphonic they are.

I've also had a discussion recently (with no good answer) about the possibility of some cap designs with metals in them being perhaps influenced a bit if they are placed closer to a magnetic field. Any thoughts or experiences by anybody there?

CoolJazz

Face

I've heard of crossover components playing music without drivers hooked up to them, no stethoscope needed. That is an interesting idea though.

Never heard of caps being influenced by magnetic fields...are you talking values, sound, etc...? How would you propose testing? Measuring response with inductors nearby then moved away? Then compensating for resistance and capacitance from additional leads, etc...?

CoolJazz

This was in regards to a preamp that a buddy has been developing for a long while, fooling with PS issues endlessly. We've been trying to convince him that with a big PS, there is good reasons to do it externally in a seperate chassis. Not liking to use electrolytics when possible, he's trying to use alternates and I just got to wondering if the various tin foil etc. designs could be influenced by all the chokes he's got in there.

I just had never heard any discussion along these lines, as to whether caps designed with various metals in them, can be altered by the magnetic flux. I'm very familiar with the magnetics and their interaction, but this was simply wondering out loud about the possibilities of foils being effected in some way.

You've likely seen the discussions of the Russian teflons and removing the metal jacket and sounding better, so it doesn't seem beyond reason to think we could have blurring of images in other ways too. I would suspect it'd be beyond measuring very well...would be more in the resulting sonic presentation.

Potting and various fastening methods of caps, particularly in crossovers and their vibration prone environment, is well accepted. So minor vibrations in electronic components could be a tweeky thing, depending on the construction of the cap and how vibration prone the mounting is and so on.

CoolJazz

daboyz

bump - just want to find easier cuz this is too damn long.......

Face

http://www.stereotimes.com/commDueland.shtml

Face

Excellent article: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2610442/Capacitor-Sound

ben62670

Thanks Face.

wushuliu

Anyone have any thoughts on the Erse Pulse X caps? I just swapped out caps (Claritycap PX/SA and some Apex Jr. Aerovox) in my Modula MTM and put some of them in. Too soon to tell, but they have some snap to them but without being harsh. Better than Dayton/Solen/Crosscaps so far...

Des Moines

ben62670 wrote: »

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/ClarityCap.pdf

I want to try these next.

Ben,

I just read the entire capacitor shootout thread... amazing posts from you and Face. How did the claritycaps compare to the dayton / bennic in terms of sound quality and cost?

Let me know when you are ready / have time for another xo upgrade.

gp4jesus

I hope the Sonicaps provide superior sound over the Daytons considering they're about twice the $.

Seriously which Dayton caps do you recomend? I priced the Metallized 1% Polypropylene against the Sonicaps. Is the price really worth the difference?

Right now I have have completly unmodified RTi A7s. Plan to go the bi-amp and eventually tri-amp route w/4th order EXO*s when I get to it.

for safety's sake I think I should at least "cap" the tweets to protect against DC offset.

thnx for your help, research, & for reading this far, tony
* already have 'em & I don't plan to change that

Face

Sonic Caps are definitely worth the extra money in the HF circuit.

Why do you want to re-engineer your RTi's?

ViperZ

After reading tons of reviews, picked up ClarityCap SA caps for my new Maggies MGII rebuild. The 10uF capacitor is the only capacitor in the crossover (the other part is the inductor).

I tried Solens in the pair that I sold. Those took a long time to burn in, but it seems that the highs rolled down too quickly. IMHO, original caps in my other pair had crisper highs (not necessarily better, but definitely crisper and sharper).

So now I have a rebuilt pair with original caps and getting ready to rebuild another pair (mainly replacing tweeter wire). So I figured I'll swap the original caps with ClarityCap SA series.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8128

Just a note: these caps are massive! 45mm long and 45mm diameter.

heiney9

+1 For Clarity over Dayton. Sonicaps are worth every cent.

zingo

Sonicaps are great, but I've also found Jantzen's budget caps to be worth the money. I've also heard only good things as you head up the line too.

gp4jesus

Face wrote: »

Sonic Caps are definitely worth the extra money in the HF circuit.

Why do you want to re-engineer your RTi's?

They seem a bit bright/edgy & a tad lean in the bass. As if Polk chose to make the tone slightly tilted. Listen to the subs alone they're impresive!

I've even connected a Hafler to the top*, the Belles to the subs
* slightly sweeter mid/upper

I've heard first hand what an inexpensive upgrade can do; Very curious what I'll get with the Sonics, Daytons, etc

I'll send the rest of this post to you privately; this thread is about caps

audiobilly

After 2 years and 4 months of pontification, lots of opinions what is the answer to the "Capacitor Shootout"?

Is there not a cost vs. result that can be quantified?

ben62670

I would say low budget wise Dayton's. Medium Clarity's caps. For those wanting to keep their speakers for a long time Sonicaps. Also you may have a different opinion on caps. These are just guidelines to fallow with tone of each flavor.
Ben

audiobilly

ben62670 wrote: »

Also you may have a different opinion on caps. These are just guidelines to fallow with tone of each flavor.
Ben

Lots of time spent being vague:D. With the info in this thread, I find that it seems to be subjective to a certain degree. I am trying to gain a better understanding of what would sound the best, without having to try this, try that, and spend unnecessary money and time. Specially since people are already experimenting.

Ben can you give any input, in a PM or direct if possible? I have seen posts about the caps for the tweets, but no comments about how to run the non- bass drivers.

zingo

I think I'm getting a mix of Jantzen Z-Caps (Standard, Superior, and Silver) for a speaker rebuild project. More details to come...

zingo

audiobilly wrote: »

Lots of time spent being vague:D. With the info in this thread, I find that it seems to be subjective to a certain degree. I am trying to gain a better understanding of what would sound the best, without having to try this, try that, and spend unnecessary money and time. Specially since people are already experimenting.

Ben can you give any input, in a PM or direct if possible? I have seen posts about the caps for the tweets, but no comments about how to run the non- bass drivers.

What speakers are you going to rebuild the XOs for? That will also make a difference.

audiobilly

zingo wrote: »

What speakers are you going to rebuild the XOs for? That will also make a difference.

Monitor 10, and SDA-1A. Will be focusing more on the SDA-1A set since they are a bet more complex than the 10s'.

heiney9

audiobilly wrote: »

Lots of time spent being vague:D. With the info in this thread, I find that it seems to be subjective to a certain degree. I am trying to gain a better understanding of what would sound the best, without having to try this, try that, and spend unnecessary money and time. Specially since people are already experimenting.

Ben can you give any input, in a PM or direct if possible? I have seen posts about the caps for the tweets, but no comments about how to run the non- bass drivers.

Re-read the rebuild threads.............no vagueness in those.

zingo

audiobilly wrote: »

Monitor 10, and SDA-1A. Will be focusing more on the SDA-1A set since they are a bet more complex than the 10s'.

Sonicaps are usually always a good choice, especially with Polks. What's your parts budget look like as that will also shape your parts list.

zingo

ben62670 wrote: »

I would say low budget wise Dayton's. Medium Clarity's caps. For those wanting to keep their speakers for a long time Sonicaps. Also you may have a different opinion on caps. These are just guidelines to fallow with tone of each flavor.
Ben

I was talking to Jeff at Sonic Craft the other day and he actually does not recommend Sonicaps for every application.

The Sonicap G1 works well with many speakers including the Polks.
However, some products benefit more from different caps. Such is the
case with [horn speakers]. The Jupiters will make the compression horns
rich with harmonic bloom. They will be ultra musical with extra
emotion. The G1 will not do this. [Horn] speakers could use it.

It goes to show you that there can be different caps not only for listener preference, but also speaker synergy.