Burglary is a risky business....

Demiurge

exalted512 wrote: »

Its Texas Senate Bill 378, I couldnt find the full text online again.
-Cody

I found it, and what you said isn't in there. There is nothing that states you can tell your neighbor to use deadly force on intruders of your property. All it says is that you don't have to make an attempt to retreat to defend yourself using deadly force, which I happen to support.

The problem is this man was never in any danger. He was in the safety of his own home watching it all unfold.

SB 378, known as the "Castle Doctrine," removes the requirement that persons attempt to retreat before using deadly force to defend themselves, effective September 1, 2007.

BAD ASP

I skim read this thread and have a comment or two. I heard the entire 911 call being played back on the radio. THe caller identified himself as a neighbor and that he had seen two men break into his neighbors house through a basement window. He then told the dipatcher that he had a shotgun and would be going out if the police didn't show up in time to stop the burglars from escaping. The caller and dispatcher had numerous back and forth statements and the caller was warned of the error in his judgement. He was told that non uniformed officers will be arriving momentarily and the dispatcher didn't want any of his officers getting shot nor did he want the caller to be shot. The caller sounded as though he was on a portable phone as he continually updated the scene for the dispatcher. The caller then said that the burglars were coming out with a bag with "stuff" in it and that he was going to go out and shoot them. The dispatcher listened as you could clearly hear the shotgun slide rack and the caller yelling out at the burglars that he was going to shoot. You then could hear the first shot, slide rack and then the second shot. You also then heard the sounds of the police officers yelling to put down the shotgun and get on the ground with his hands over his head. To me the time delay between the shots and the officers voice was only a few seconds, I feel that the burglars wouldn't have escaped...IMO.

I own several guns and I have had to stop a home invasion in my home. My best friend is a retired gang crimes detective and he had advised me that I was fortunate to not have shot the POS who broke into my house. Modern forensics can pretty much determine if the criminal and the victime were close enough to warrant " self defense" and I'm sure that shooting someone in the back will never be labeled as self-defense. I was instructed by my friend that shooting someone face to face in close proximity will fall under the description of self defense with your testimony stating that you were threatened or that the criminial was coming at you. The truth about the circumstances of killing someone will only be known by the shooter. THe shooter will answer to God and will have to live with it for the rest of his / her life. If you've ever killed someone then the feeling never leaves you, justified or not. Ask any soldier who has fought in combat if they feel anything about killing someone and the majority are changed forever. Killing someone over a tv or a stereo is hardly justice but I have already read that some feel it is justifiable. I politely disagree but respect your opinion and I have fought for your right to say / feel that way. SEMPER FI

exalted512

Demiurge wrote: »

I found it, and what you said isn't in there. There is nothing that states you can tell your neighbor to use deadly force on intruders of your property. All it says is that you don't have to make an attempt to retreat to defend yourself using deadly force, which I happen to support.

The problem is this man was never in any danger. He was in the safety of his own home watching it all unfold.

Can you post the link please?
-Cody

Demiurge

You're spot on BAD ASP.

Demiurge

exalted512 wrote: »

Can you post the link please?
-Cody

No problem, here's a .PDF of all of the Criminal & Traffic laws that went into effect September 1st, 2007 by the State of Texas.

Keep in mind this is an offical document from the Texas Department of Public Safety website.

exalted512

"SB 378, known as the “Castle Doctrine,” removes the requirement that persons attempt to retreat before using deadly force to defend themselves."

that?
-Cody

Demiurge

exalted512 wrote: »

"SB 378, known as the “Castle Doctrine,” removes the requirement that persons attempt to retreat before using deadly force to defend themselves."

that?
-Cody

Is there something unclear there?

That's the crux of the bill as stated by the Texas Department of Public Safety.

If you'd like to read through the whole Senate bill, here it is. Nowhere does the word neighbor appear or state there is any authorization for someone to confront burglars and kill them on someone elses property when nobody is in any physical danger.

The only danger was the danger this home owner created for himself while repeatedly being told not to by the 911 dispatcher.

SKsolutions

If there is no existing statue to rule, there will be coincidental reference to other existing statutes. I have no idea if the neighbor by extension thing exists in Texas or not.

exalted512

Demiurge wrote: »

Is there something unclear there?

That's the crux of the bill as stated by the Texas Department of Public Safety.

If you'd like to read through the whole Senate bill, here it is. Nowhere does the word neighbor appear or state there is any authorization for someone to confront burglars and kill them on someone elses property when nobody is in any physical danger.

The only danger was the danger this home owner created for himself while repeatedly being told not to by the 911 dispatcher.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but thats still not the full bill. The one I read through originally had all the sections lined out, so when you see "habitation as defined by section 30.01", that section was at the bottom of the page.
-Cody

SKsolutions

Footnotes!

phuz

No charges.

http://www.click2houston.com/news/16749087/detail.html

I love Texas.

phuz

Threads merged. Redundant post removed.

Sami

That's scary. Makes me think should I start shooting all these preachers and salesmen that show up at my doorsteps...

ND13

Wow!!!

I understand the castle doctrine laws, but how did this apply in this case? It was his neighbors house and he shot them in the back. I'd probably shoot someone that broke into my house without blinking an eye, but this is totally different. With my **** neighbors, I'd probably not even take notice if their places were being robbed;).

sucks2beme

Sami wrote: »

That's scary. Makes me think should I start shooting all these preachers and salesmen that show up at my doorsteps...

It's Texas. Bring a chainsaw to the door. That should remove all doubt
that a sale ain't gonna happen.

sucks2beme

Bring it on!

JohnLocke88

Thank the lord for Texas. At least that **** doesn't fly there. In California, someone has to be violating your loved ones with a hacksaw before you're allowed to do anything; and even then you better plant a gun on them just to be safe.

Sami

sucks2beme wrote: »

It's Texas. Bring a chainsaw to the door. That should remove all doubt
that a sale ain't gonna happen.

I figured shooting them brings too much trouble anyways, I'll just scare them off. Yes, sometimes they really are that pesky, especially the ones trying to sell their version of god. They are stealing from me, my time! About the shooter, I wouldn't be too surprised if he's in a coffin within the next few months.

F1nut

Excellent!!! I wish Mr. Horn all the best. We need more neighbors like him.

Sami

Alrite guys, I'm off to buy some guns now. I sold everything I had to a friend of mine, he had trouble buying from the store because of the background check they do. Now I'm feeling left out of all the fun...

steveinaz

Moral of the story: Get a damn JOB like the rest of us, commiting crimes can be hazardous to your health.

fatchowmein

deleted

hockeyboy

This is Texas man, it is highly unlikely that he will get more than probation for offing two black illegal aliens committing a felony on a white home owner. The biggest problem for Horn in his defense is that the autopsy shows that one of the guys was blasted IN THE BACK. Even in Texas, shooting a man in the back is as low as it gets.

phuz

hockeyboy wrote: »

This is Texas man, it is highly unlikely that he will get more than probation...

He won't get anything at all. Local DA isn't pressing charges, and the Grand Jury isn't indicting. Not even a civil suit. The new castle doctrine prevents civil suits in cases like this.

petrym

Stop breaking the law to stop getting shot, it's simple.

shack

It's a damn shame. Horn should be in jail. He executed someone that was no immediate threat and he didn’t let the cops do the job. He became judge, jury and executioner with a pull of the trigger. Texas obviously condones vigilante justice. They may have been thugs and scum...but the ultimate punishment did not fit the crime. Horn committed a worse than crime that the thieves he killed IMO!

Rivrrat

Here in Arizona, if there's an intruder in you house, you can drop him, period. That was recently changed from "imminient danger or threat" or whatever it was called.

Now I don't know about defending my neighbors property. I'm not so sure I'd want to test that one out.

McLoki

But where will my tax dollars go now that the robbers won't be in jail living off the state for a few months (if that)? Also, now they will have to import others to commit petty theft and other crime in that area. Its a damn shame and someone should do something about it.

If there are many other people like that getting involved where it does not directly affect them, it could throw a wrench in the whole crime business. Oh sure, its petty theft interrupted now, but think about the affect this could have on rape, armed robbery, extortion, drug dealing and the other crimes that not only survive but flourish when people are smart enough to mind their own damn business.

It will end up getting to the point that crime doesn't pay and thats just not what America was founded on. We should be out protesting in the streets.

JohnLocke88

McLoki wrote: »

But where will my tax dollars go now that the robbers won't be in jail living off the state for a few months (if that)? Also, now they will have to import others to commit petty theft and other crime in that area. Its a damn shame and someone should do something about it.

If there are many other people like that getting involved where it does not directly affect them, it could throw a wrench in the whole crime business. Oh sure, its petty theft interrupted now, but think about the affect this could have on rape, armed robbery, extortion, drug dealing and the other crimes that not only survive but flourish when people are smart enough to mind their own damn business.

It will end up getting to the point that crime doesn't pay and thats just not what America was founded on. We should be out protesting in the streets.

What's it say about a country that was founded on rugged individualism and self reliance that a man has to be afraid for his rights when he is in the morally superior position. Whether you agree that pulling the trigger was the right thing to do, you must admit that his intentions were nothing short of honorable, attempting to be a good neighbor. Not everyone has insurance, and certain possessions that can be hawked on the street for a few hundred dollars can have insurmountable personal or familial value.

McLoki

JohnLocke88 wrote: »

What's it say about a country that was founded on rugged individualism and self reliance that a man has to be afraid for his rights when he is in the morally superior position. Whether you agree that pulling the trigger was the right thing to do, you must admit that his intentions were nothing short of honorable, attempting to be a good neighbor. Not everyone has insurance, and certain possessions that can be hawked on the street for a few hundred dollars can have insurmountable personal or familial value.

Reread my post from a more sarcastic position....