Burglary is a risky business....
Comments
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The shooter is wrong in initiating a confrontation that was otherwise completely avoidable. The protesters turning it into a race issue are also wrong, and subsequently are the main reason the shooter is getting raked over the coals so much publically.
The real issue here? The courts. The people doing the robbing probably would have faced little to no jail time. This has been a constant source of frustration when the criminal justice system turns into a revolving door. We need to start enforcing laws that are on the books to their fullest extents so people don't feel compelled to partake in vigialante justice.
Trust me, I, as much as anybody get that the guy doing the shooting probably wasn't a bad guy and the guy that was killed probably was. That just doesn't make the shooting justified.
Had this happened on his own personal property it's a completely different situation, and in Texas I believe he would have been well within his rights to do what he did. -
If the neighbors gave him consent, hes still within his rights, even if no immediate threat was posed to him.
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The key is if you happen to shoot them while exiting drag them back in the door then youre good. But in this guys case, Im sure he'll get time for it. Sux but Im sure he will. I wouldnt have killed them, maybe just shot out the tires on the vehicle or something.Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!
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A .45 in the knees tends to slow down burgalars for a loooong time."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
exalted512 wrote: »I really have to disagree with some people here.
I do agree, yes, just because you see someone standing outside of a house that you dont know, you shouldnt go shoot them.
That wasnt the case. He saw them break into the house with a crow bar and come outside with stolen goods. If that happened to me, I would hope to God my neighbor shot them dead, or at least knee capped 'em.
Theres not much more I hate than a thief, and who doesnt want the neighbors helping out? The fact of the matter is, if you watched the video, it took over 7 minutes for the cops to show up in town in a residential area. Thats piss poor response time if you ask me.
Thieves arent going to stop until they have a legit. fear for their lives, if it takes more shootings like this, I'm all for it. It'll teach em that just because the people youre robbing arent home, doesnt mean youre not going to get blown away by the guy living next door.
-Cody
We all like the shooting of thugs. The problem is the law. This guy is going to be in and out of
court for years. Once again, if it was inside a home, he'd be ok. Go check the law.
I hope he gets off. But reality isn't like tv with a happy ending for the good guy."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
A .45 in the knees tends to slow down burgalars for a loooong time.
absolutely,,, kill em' all,,let God sort them out
JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut) -
A .45 in the knees tends to slow down burgalars for a loooong time.
No way shoot in the HEAD will stop them for good, let the courts figure that out. Shoot them in the knees and they can sue me instead no thanks.
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disneyjoe7 wrote: »No way shoot in the HEAD will stop them for good, let the courts figure that out. Shoot them in the knees and they can sue me instead no thanks.
What the matter don't want the burglars moving into your house with your money?
I agree, at the firearms class I took the instructor said(off the books obviously) "Never shoot to wound, you end up with more headaches and you lose everything, shoot to kill and don't stop shooting till the clip is empty. Then double and triple check for the police get there to make sure they aren't getting up." -
disneyjoe7 wrote: »No way shoot in the HEAD will stop them for good, let the courts figure that out. Shoot them in the knees and they can sue me instead no thanks.
...."SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE" -
I am going to disagree with the majority here. I believe every one has the right to protect one's propety and I think that goes to the extent of lethal force if in doing so your life is at stake. There is nothing I own that is worth trading a life for...regardless of the scum that tries to take it. If there is a threat to my safety or that of my family...that is different...and any force necessary is warranted.
This instance is so far over the line that the man deserves jail time and I hope he gets it. He was fine until he made the confrontation...he should have stayed in his house on the phone, got descriptions of the thiefs, their vehicle etc, and let LE handle it from there. There was no one at risk for harm including the shooter since they were not armed and he shot them in the side and back. He was TOLD to stay inside. He was TOLD not to confront them. There was a cop there that just pulled up in response to the 911 call who witnessed the shootings and would have arrested the suspects. Vigilantism has a poor history in this country and that is exactly what this man did when he decided to play cop, jury, judge and executioner in this case. One of the key phrases in the original post
He wasn't protecting his property and had no right to kill those men."Joe Horn, the Pasadena man who shot and killed two men he suspected of burglarizing a neighbor's home more than two weeks ago."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
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Oh, don't worry, if they enter MY home, it'll be a head shot.
NO, NO, NO. First four shots go center mass, then two to the head
while he's down. Stop him first, then go for it.
Then kick him a couple times somewhere he's not bleeding.
Then piss on him. See what his momma thinks of that!"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
I'm pro-gun, you all know that--but I can't justify the way this was handled. Now if the neighbor had suspected his neighbors might be in the house, that would be different as a potential for murder or serious injury is there; but he was fully aware that there was no one in the house (we was watching it for his neighbors) and the ****-bags were merely stealing things. There's a right way and wrong way to do things--responsibly. This incident hurts the gun owners of America by making us all look like a bunch of yahoos. He could have handled this differently and possibly detained them.
I'm not blaming the victim here, just saying that he handled it poorly and he's probably going to face some serious punishment for his poor judgement. Take note "bad-guys" sometimes people shoot first, and ask questions later...Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
I'm pro-gun, you all know that--but I can't justify the way this was handled. Now if the neighbor had suspected his neighbors might be in the house, that would be different as a potential for murder or serious injury is there; but he was fully aware that there was no one in the house (we was watching it for his neighbors) and the ****-bags were merely stealing things. There's a right way and wrong way to do things--responsibly. This incident hurts the gun owners of America by making us all look like a bunch of yahoos. He could have handled this differently and possibly detained them.
That is an interesting post. However, how would you go about detaining them? I'm willing to bet if he tried they would have said something to the effect of "You won't shoot us, get lost". To which then what does he do? Fire a warning shot? That alone would land him in jail for wrongfully discharging a firearm. So maybe he does end up detaining them, he could probably be sued by the burglars for detaining them at gunpoint, and holding them against their will.
Who is to say if he tried to detain them and they said "F you", got in their car and tried to run him over.
The guy Joe Horn was faced with an impossible "right" decision once he left the front door of his house. There was no right and wrong way to handle it. He made the decision when he walked out the door to stop them and that was it. -
I would have remained in my home, shotgun and phone at my side--watching them carefully. When they didn't respond to him, he should have simply backed up into his home, shotgun trained on them the whole way. Sure if they start approaching him as he's backing off---fire away. Now you have a justifiable shooting. But this was not the case.
Now, given that he did go out there--I would have a fired a shot into the ground, it lets them know that the gun is in fact loaded, and you are prepared to use it. Been more forceful, whatever--pursuing someone is just a tactically dumb thing to do, (not to mention legally dumb thing) if you don't have to.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
BaggedLancer wrote: »The guy Joe Horn was faced with an impossible "right" decision once he left the front door of his house.
Exactly, this was a bad decision.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
Those of you commenting on how you would handle one of these situations may want to think twice about posting it on the internet for all to see. It may sound cute right now, but it won't be cute if you're ever involved in an altercation and a prosecutor has access to everything, including your home computer. Whether you like it or not, this system makes the defender of property the criminal. The stuff you post here will be here forever unless you edit your comments. In a way it's essentially a part of the public record.
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Exactly, this was a bad decision.
Yes, but the point I was trying to make is it's almost like he didn't have the choice but to shoot them. I thought I remember seeing somewhere that once he left the house and called them one of them started to approach him, or did they both start running? If they both started running, I agree he should have moved back in his house. -
Yep, he injected himself into a bad situation--I agree w/you 100%. He should have listened to the 911 dispatcher.
All the facts are not out yet, but autopsy evidence suggests both were shot in the back. Not good. Keep in mind there was a plain clothes detective who saw the whole thing go down---he didn't know "who" the bad guys were, so he stayed put. He actually thought that the guy with the shotgun (Horn) might be the get away driver--This is why the dispatcher kept telling Horn to "stay in your house."
Right or wrong as it is, to a Jury it sounds like he was "looking for a fight." Don't kill the messenger, I'm just telling you how it will be portrayed in court.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
If there was a detective there who watched everything go down he should be charged for allowing it to play out the way it did, especially if the detective knew there was a plain clothes detective right there watching it and didn't tell the guy with the shotgun.
Not knowing who the bad guys were? B/S, the ones with the loot are the bad guys. It would have taking maybe 10 seconds for the 911 dispatcher to tell the detective the guy with the shotgun is the worried homeowner. -
When I was having my basement finished, my contractor had access into my house when we weren’t home. He would basically break into the side gate and go down to my basement which we would leave unlocked and alarm off for him.
I sure as hell would hate for a neighbor (who maybe had the day off from work that day) to come running over with a gun and blaze him down (no questions asked) thinking he was robbing the place. But if they really were surprised, I sure as hell wouldn’t mind them calling 911 and letting the people trained and experienced in that kinda thing come by and see what’s up (they might notice his truck has a contractor sign on it). I tend to trust the coppers in this kinda thing more then my goofy neighbors.Testing
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You always have a choice of whether or not to shoot. And as stated by Shack and SteveinAZ, this guy made a very bad choice that is not supported by law or by the pro-gun groups. He was not defending his property, and he was not in danger until he decided to be a hero and inserted himself into the situation. All this situation will result in will be a possible punishment of the shooter, and empowerment of the criminal element. If he really wanted to be effective he would of followed them in his vehicle, reporting where they were going to the 911 operator.DKG999
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Good lord, the guy was wrong. I'm an NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, and there is conduct involved in how you use firearms. You own them in hopes you never have to use them for defensive purposes. This guy created the situation, it wasn't brought upon him."Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."
"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."
This guy did nothing right other than calling 9-11, but he was too stupid to listen to them. -
BaggedLancer wrote: »If there was a detective there who watched everything go down he should be charged for allowing it to play out the way it did, especially if the detective knew there was a plain clothes detective right there watching it and didn't tell the guy with the shotgun.
Not knowing who the bad guys were? B/S, the ones with the loot are the bad guys. It would have taking maybe 10 seconds for the 911 dispatcher to tell the detective the guy with the shotgun is the worried homeowner.
Read the updated reports for yourself and draw your own conclusions. I may or may not have the facts straight--but I believe this is what I last read. I feel ya brother on this, I do..but there's a right way and a wrong way to do things.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
This guy did nothing right other than calling 9-11...
Exactly what I was going to say....Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Source: Rotel CD14MkII CD Player - Speakers: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2 -
When I was having my basement finished, my contractor had access into my house when we werent home. He would basically break into the side gate and go down to my basement which we would leave unlocked and alarm off for him.
I sure as hell would hate for a neighbor (who maybe had the day off from work that day) to come running over with a gun and blaze him down (no questions asked) thinking he was robbing the place. But if they really were surprised, I sure as hell wouldnt mind them calling 911 and letting the people trained and experienced in that kinda thing come by and see whats up (they might notice his truck has a contractor sign on it). I tend to trust the coppers in this kinda thing more then my goofy neighbors.
In that case it would have been the responsible decision on your part to let your neighbors know that you were having work done on your home by a contractor while you weren't home and you specifically left the door open and alarm off for him to have access to it.
There have been numerous cases in my neighborhood where next door neighbors called alerting us to when they were having this kind of work done while they weren't home.
End result, if they saw your contractor walking out with audio equipment and other non construction goods....they would know what to do. If they saw him walking in or out with construction materials...they would know what to do.
I wouldn't call your neighbors goofy, they might just be the ones to call 911 if your house is burning down or someone is actually breaking in. -
Read the updated reports for yourself and draw your own conclusions. I may or may not have the facts straight--but I believe this is what I last read. I feel ya brother on this, I do..but there's a right way and a wrong way to do things.
I'm afraid to watch/listen to the updated reports. The 911 assessed how unstable the guy was and to have a cop on seen and just let it play out the way it did would make me kind of sick.
I am definately not saying the guy made the right decision at this point. I'm just saying if a cop was there on seen it should have been much different and a much happier outcome. -
BaggedLancer wrote: »In that case it would have been the responsible decision on your part to let your neighbors know that you were having work done on your home by a contractor while you weren't home and you specifically left the door open and alarm off for him to have access to it.
There have been numerous cases in my neighborhood where next door neighbors called alerting us to when they were having this kind of work done while they weren't home.
End result, if they saw your contractor walking out with audio equipment and other non construction goods....they would know what to do. If they saw him walking in or out with construction materials...they would know what to do.
I wouldn't call your neighbors goofy, they might just be the ones to call 911 if your house is burning down or someone is actually breaking in.
I do have neighbors to trust but believe me, we have some serious neighbors that are actually goofy (after a 24 pack of Miller Light and 10 perscription pain killers) and would probably come out of the house guns blazing. I won’t go into detail.Testing
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then those are the first you let know about what is going on
Back on topic, anyone know what charges have actually been filed? Manslaughter or murder? Neither? -
BaggedLancer wrote: »then those are the first you let know about what is going on
Back on topic, anyone know what charges have actually been filed? Manslaughter or murder? Neither?
It's going to a grand jury."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
It's going to a grand jury.
Thanks shack....probably going to end up with murder charges with a plea out on manslaughter for both if i had to guess.
