Started my new custom SDA's today

xsmi

Ben,

You tha man! Does the sda effect work? Are you going to post the plasn so that we may build our own? How much would you charge for the plans? Wow those are incredible and if they sound as good as the look you have some special speaks man. I am so envious. I can not wrap my head around what you just did.

ben62670

I thought about tapering the the woofer levels, and wired it so that I could taper them later. The SQ is very detailed. The sound is so incredibly full its unbelievable. I went to an OZZY concert, and had 5th row tickets, and it was as loud as mine(ears rang for the next day after 4 hours at the concert), but definitely not as clear as this. Initial SQ was very good. I have some new drivers that have to be broken in still. I was running some fancy thin monster cable with the tube in it for the highs. The mids were kinda muffled. I thought I was going to have to adjust the tweeters amp level. I switched to AQ star quad solid core speaker wire. I am going to be adding an in the speaker XO for the tweets to bring the slope up to 24db, and I need to roll off the highs a tad. It isn't perfect, but it is so much closer than I though it would be with this basic setup. The imaging is very good kinda like RTA15's. Those Morel tweeters present an incredible sound stage. The SDA part still needs some tweaking. I am doing that part differently from the original design seeing there are no caps or inductors setting the XO level inside the speaker(XO is handled before the amp).

NIN is incredible. The bass definitely reaches down to 15hz or less with an strong solid punch.
Alison Krause sounds very smooth, and the dynamics are very present compared to before.
DS BIA Money for nothing is a crappy 80's song, but it is an excellent test for dynamics. Passed with only a hair missing in the mid range.
Fleetwood Mac has a song with a male singer. I can't remember the name of it. Something about going insane, and too much trouble in this world. His voice is lacking somewhat compared to before. Nice and clear, but somewhat muffled(roll off some highs again here).
As you can see the mid range needs some work. I expected this, and will be working on this when I get this thing plotted out.
Well I gotta get back to work.
Thanks for the interest. This project has been most rewarding.
Ben

audiobliss

Wow. Man, there truly are no words for you, your effort, this project, or the result!

Congrats and keep tuning!

:eek:

dudeinaroom

Ben what are you running the XO slopes at right now?

jakelm

You shouldnt have mentioned vids. Got me wanting vids now.

Muffled mids could be the result of a phase issue.

ben62670

jakelm wrote: »

You shouldnt have mentioned vids. Got me wanting vids now.

Muffled mids could be the result of a phase issue.

You ****:eek: Let me get a little sleep. Thats an awfully long whip to be whipping me from there. Those Fmods suck so bad. All they do is make your frequencies bumpy. They don't block ****. I lost 2 tweeters:mad: I'm not running it loud right now. Keeping it under 110. I have my electronic XO at 2000hz 12db slope. Sounds real nice. The nice thing about active I can hook up any tweeters I want to, and not have to worry about what has happened to the XO cause of impedance change.:)

Deadof_knight

Damn I wished I had some of his time ! You go guy

ben62670

Deadof_knight wrote: »

Damn I wished I had some of his time ! You go guy

Me too:D

madmax

Just a general question about arrays if you don't mind. Is there something about not wanting an array to be too tall for a given distance away? I thought I had read something about it but can't find it now.
madmax

ben62670

madmax wrote: »

Just a general question about arrays if you don't mind. Is there something about not wanting an array to be too tall for a given distance away? I thought I had read something about it but can't find it now.
madmax

Depends on the type of array. If its convex, or straight. Straight arrays work well near field. I do find the listening position is better at 15' instead of previous 12'.

The main thing about arrays is that the SPL level doesn't drop off as fast when you double distances. The other important key about arrays is the distance that you can have between the centers of drivers. My centers are less than 7 inches apart, so I can run up to 2200hz without lobing, or phase issues. If I had used 8" drivers I could only run up to about 1700hz. 5 1/4 inchers allow up to about 3500hz. Don't hold these to true figures, but just as a general idea.

This is the best line array link I have found that pertains to home. Definitely check it out. Page three is what it is all about.

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf

jakelm

I'm curious to see what your xover looks like. IC cables too. And if you had a wire diagram.

ben62670

jakelm wrote: »

I'm curious to see what your xover looks like. IC cables too. And if you had a wire diagram.

They are all in my head. Like my friends:D

The SDA isn't full width yet. I tried one design I came up with that is unlike any Polk has produced. I tried an inductor at the amp between the amps ground, and the negative on the speakers ground like the 1.2TL's. It didn't work effective enough because the speakers don't have a cap inside between the negative, and positive speaker terminals that allows the out of phase signal to bleed off fast enough. It widened it to about 3 feet beyond the speakers, but wasn't what I wanted. It also muddied up the sound in the dim array. I am going to do a passive inside the speakers like the SDA-SRS, but I'm going to half the inductors, and double the caps, because the dim array is 4ohms instead of 8.

ben62670

I might be able to set up my speakers in a church that is about 40*100. I'd like to be able to test them in an open area instead of my small apartment. Too much sound coming out of my speakers even at low DB levels. I hate to say it, but I may have gone overboard this time:eek: I was in an office in the next room with my meter for ha ha's, and while it was peaking around 118 in my room it was 109 in the next room, and the doors where closed.

rskarvan

Your setup is a little like two sets of 1.2's stacked vertically!

BaggedLancer

They look great...time to build a match set for the rear!

ben62670

BaggedLancer wrote: »

They look great...time to build a match set for the rear!

I have custom SDA-SRS for the rears!

These were my fronts. A little over 6 feet tall, and 1.5 inch thick walls. They are pretty ugly, but sound amazing. I will get my new ones to sound just as good.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24140&d=1176423933

I did a lot of tweeter experimenting with them, single Morel tweeter worked best. I just have to figure out how to get it in the center. I could just rip the face off.

ben62670

ben62670 wrote: »

They are all in my head. Like my friends:D

The SDA isn't full width yet. I tried one design I came up with that is unlike any Polk has produced. I tried an inductor at the amp between the amps ground, and the negative on the speakers ground like the 1.2TL's. It didn't work effective enough because the speakers don't have a cap inside between the negative, and positive speaker terminals that allows the out of phase signal to bleed off fast enough. It widened it to about 3 feet beyond the speakers, but wasn't what I wanted. It also muddied up the sound in the dim array. I am going to do a passive inside the speakers like the SDA-SRS, but I'm going to half the inductors, and double the caps, because the dim array is 4ohms instead of 8.

:eek:

I FINALLY FN GOT IT!!! THE WHOLE PACKAGE!!! SDA, MIDS, TWEETS, AND ALL!!!

WOOOOOHHHHHOOOOO!!!

I AM BESIDES ME SELF!!!

I FINALLY FN GOT IT!!!

As you can see I am very happy. Between the FMOD in-line passive crossovers, tweeter phasing, level adjustments I am finally done. I mean it is so freaking close to perfect it ain't funny. Every time I fixed something I F'ed something up. Biggest issue was the Fmods. They suck! I lost 2 tweeters in the battle for mind blowing sound. They gave their best, and are no longer with us. They will be sent back to their maker:( Second issue was a resonance I thought was the room. Loose driver. One screw was loose:o Like me:D BTW it is now 5am here. Next issue was the tweeters. 2 tweets wired parallel. Mids came and went. I thought I was having issues with the mids rolling off improperly. Nope. Electronic crossover insured that wasn't the case with a few sine wave test. OK so I pulled one tweeter, and reversed the polarity. Close, but not right. If I stood on a chair it sounded pretty good. I'd sit down, sounded like doo. Top tweet is now out of phase, bottom in phase with the woofers. OK for kicks I changed the tweeter speaker wires in the binding post. Neg to Pos, and Pos to Neg. HOLY CRAP THATS IT. XO's, and SQ near a done deal. No SDA up, and running. I took that out of the loop. I had enough problems getting the stereo running with just 8 MW's per side, and 2 tweeters. I am laughing as I type this:D The SDA took less then 2 minutes to get right. It is so simple when use 3 channels per side that it's laughable. You are not going to believe how many components it take to convert the stereo operating dimensional drivers to the full SDA effect! (long pause) (real long pause) I can't tell you. I would feel like a ****. Polk has the absolute best customer service. I would feel wrong without talking to them before releasing the info. I have the up most respect for those guys, and girls that I can not disclose this info.

Thanks guys for your support, warnings about the complexity of a huge line array/SDA, tri amped, one off kinda project. There is some more work to be done. Mostly cosmetic, and some playing with stuffing. Little tweaks. I am just sitting here shaking my head in disbelief. I can't believe where I was just 6 months ago. Thanks to you guys reading this. It is truly heart warming. I could not have ever come up with something like this on my own. Less than a year ago I was listening to a 1988 JVC stereo receiver with a pair of infinity 2 ways, and a passive sub. I was happy as a pig in slop. I still have a lot of respect for that setup. It really did sound good. You know what I am now getting pissed. I was happy with that system! Over 15 years you ****:p I want my time and money back!

Later I am outta here!

disgruntled Ben:mad:

engtaz

Congrats are your findings and your great work on the speakers. NOW GET SOME SLEEP!!!

heiney9

Congrats Ben, another feather in the cap for Polk CS and the whole gang for sharing proprietary info on SDA's. Not many, if any companies would give you the time of day for a project like yours. I'm sure they detected your sheer enthusiasm and wanted to help.

Once you get them 100 % dialed in it's time to take the 7 foot SDA tour to all the cities where us Polkies reside so we can have a demo of the damn things.

Glad your project came off as planned, enjoy them that's what this hobby is all about. Now...................stop hoarding all the used MW drivers leave some for the rest of us

H9

BlueMDPicker

bikezappa wrote: »

Progress is deviation from the norm.

Amen! Have fun Ben. I hope to be able to slide by and hear them the end of next month.

BaggedLancer

These will be at polkfest right?

Ricardo

That's an impressive work Ben. Congrats.

Now that you're done, you should Karma them

bikezappa

Ben

How long do you think your hearing will last while listening at 120db levels?

My ears ring now very slightly. I'm 58 and wish I had ear plugs at those concerts in the 60s and 70s. My ears would ring all night after those concerts.

You don't want to compromise your hearing.

jakelm

Ben what would happen if you took the tri amp out of the equation and just used a single or bi amp configuration? Can the speakers be used this way, or do they require multiple amps? Would the ohm load be too much for a single or bi amp?

ben62670

bikezappa wrote: »

Ben

How long do you think your hearing will last while listening at 120db levels?

My ears ring now very slightly. I'm 58 and wish I had ear plugs at those concerts in the 60s and 70s. My ears would ring all night after those concerts.

You don't want to compromise your hearing.

I will listen to a song at 120db, and turn it down. 105 with these guys is louder than 105 with my other ones. I am pretty sure its more presure from all those drivers. I like 95 to 105 for listening to say an album.

ben62670

heiney9 wrote: »

Congrats Ben, another feather in the cap for Polk CS and the whole gang for sharing proprietary info on SDA's. Not many, if any companies would give you the time of day for a project like yours. I'm sure they detected your sheer enthusiasm and wanted to help.

Once you get them 100 % dialed in it's time to take the 7 foot SDA tour to all the cities where us Polkies reside so we can have a demo of the damn things.

Glad your project came off as planned, enjoy them that's what this hobby is all about. Now...................stop hoarding all the used MW drivers leave some for the rest of us

H9

I'd like to thank you directly for advice on amps, and the cautions on these kinda speakers.
These things are too heavy to move across the room never mind leaning them enough to get them under a door!

Thanks Ben

ben62670

jakelm wrote: »

Ben what would happen if you took the tri amp out of the equation and just used a single or bi amp configuration? Can the speakers be used this way, or do they require multiple amps? Would the ohm load be too much for a single or bi amp?

Hey Jake I would like to thank you for cracking the whip when I got tired or discouraged:D
They need to be Tri amped.

ben62670

BlueMDPicker wrote: »

Amen! Have fun Ben. I hope to be able to slide by and hear them the end of next month.

Swing in! Bring hearing protection for the "getting punch in the chest" drum demo!

ben62670

HTrookie wrote: »

That's an impressive work Ben. Congrats.

Now that you're done, you should Karma them

Single guys need only apply. The WAF is out the window on these! Well except Joe maybe. His wife sounded real excited when I spoke to him:) Way to go Joe!

ben62670

engtaz wrote: »

Congrats are your findings and your great work on the speakers. NOW GET SOME SLEEP!!!

Thanks for all the encouragement along the way E!

Ben