Documenting: My SDA-1c upgrades from start to finish

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    Pro amps, while providing high wpc power, are not noted for their high fidelity and fidelity is what most are trying to obtain. Your goal may be different.

    A high current amp matters more than a high power amp.

    The noise floor is evident while music is playing. The sound has less clarity, is strident and fatiguing, especially at higher volume levels.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,365
    Not to mention bridged amps see half the impedance of the speaker load, so I believe the 1C is 6ohm in bridged mode your amps will be dealing with 3ohm load.
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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,160
    What F1 said and I’ll add to that,
    Although the wattage output is increased by a ****-pot the current capability is compromised.
    The reason why they suggest no loads below 8 ohms.
    8 & above ok.

    It’s best to go with high current amps even if the watts isn’t of the same value… to a point.

    I’ve never understood the reason of why to bridge an amp.
    If someone can explain the benefits I’d appreciate it.

    Skip
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    I’ve never understood the reason of why to bridge an amp.
    If someone can explain the benefits I’d appreciate it.

    Skip

    I haven't found them either
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    Bridging allows for higher sound pressure levels, but that's about it.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,160
    Okay but, I have a question regarding that…
    How does one bet higher sp without current?
    Only way that can happen is with easy to drive speakers yes?

    Doesn’t that eliminate speakers of 4 ohms & less?
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,462
    edited October 2022
    skipshot12 wrote: »
    Okay but, I have a question regarding that…
    How does one bet higher sp without current?
    Only way that can happen is with easy to drive speakers yes?

    Doesn’t that eliminate speakers of 4 ohms & less?

    BINGO. We have another believer in Ohms Law lol. It's all about transients though. Some amps can put out more amps AND power into a given load for a short period of time without clipping. More than their rating would indicate. Dynamic Headroom spec is an attempt to address this. Most amplifier makers don't give that spec for good reason. Not just because it isn't perfect but because they don't want you to know.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,160
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    skipshot12 wrote: »
    Okay but, I have a question regarding that…
    How does one bet higher sp without current?
    Only way that can happen is with easy to drive speakers yes?

    Doesn’t that eliminate speakers of 4 ohms & less?

    BINGO. We have another believer in Ohms Law lol. It's all about transients though. Some amps can put out more amps AND power into a given load for a short period of time without clipping. More than their rating would indicate. Dynamic Headroom spec is an attempt to address this. Most amplifier makers don't give that spec for good reason. Not just because it isn't perfect but because they don't want you to know.

    As a retired lineman I’m an understander of ohm’s law…… 😬
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    One reason why most manufacturers state bridged mode speakers must be 8 ohms or higher.
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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,160
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    One reason why most manufacturers state bridged mode speakers must be 8 ohms or higher.

    👍
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    Well, that's no good [re-reads all the comments on bridging].

    [hrm]

    So, do you guys think the positives I hear in my p2250 over the AX-596 (or my other R's and HTR's) is a matter of current transfer? The p2250 being a beefier unit and being able to push out current more effectively?

    And the sound quality I enjoy from the p2250 is something that will suffer if I bridge and use 2 at a time.

    SO, now comes the big question of

    What do I look for in the $800 range that would be better for the 1C?

    I'm serious when I say I really do like the sound I get out of this amp. Even though it's a waste of electricity, I like the sound of my HTR-5960 and 5990 as a preamp for it (the digital file enhancer is nice on the 5960, too). But I will put an amp upgrade on the list, if it will make a real difference.
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    $800 range is going to be slim. $1500-1800 you have better options. Might be able to find a good used Parasound A21
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    Oof.

    [thinks]

    Oof.

    $1500, a possibility if I get a higher paying job next year... or a raise... but that's $750 extra if I sold the amps...

    So, best used options from $800 to $1000?
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • joebass3
    joebass3 Posts: 284
    edited October 2022
    If you search hard enough there are deals to be had for a good amp. When I bought my 1C's I asked the forum for amp suggestions. Ended up buying a used B&K Reference 200.2 amp for $500. Parasound HCA-1500 was also recommended and I bought one of those ($300) for my 2B's. I have been lucky but just be aware that these units have some age on them and if you find one it may need servicing.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    Or need servicing within a few years. It's a gamble to be honest.
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    These Yamahas were made in 1983.

    I expect, to be as good as they can be, they'll need recapped sometime.

    Maybe... since I like them, sell the 2nd and look for a deal like @joebass3 found... Though it's a little harder for me in WV looking in the Pittsburgh area. I only found the 2nd amp because I looked specifically for it... and at a 7.5 hour round trip, I only did it because I was 1/3 of the way there this weekend.
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,160
    Hey p_a...

    Did you see this in the "Looking for Misc Audio Deals of the Day? Updated info here!"?

    m5ebibu0zacg.png

    $375, it'll probably need a going thru...
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    Well, damn @skipshot12

    Didn't know about that thread. I'm mostly just in Vinrage. Bookmarked!

    I'll start hanging out there for amp deals after the New Year.

    Might just re-list my 2nd amp around Christmas and prep... Thanks for the thread!
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,160
    edited October 2022
    👍
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    2 things:

    - Redesigned the terminal plates. Makes more sense to me with this mirrored, horizontally aligned layout. If anyone wants the 3D file, I'll share it.

    c9ej9576qqyc.jpeg

    I might etch the names of everyone who contributed to this project on the cabinet/interior face. Sort of like the old Macs.

    Lot of names to collect...

    - I might hook both amps to my Rti10.

    I doubt it'll change the voicing or improve imaging, but they're so damn pretty with the veneer... I really hate to part them out on ebay =(
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,000
    I'd say a tribute to F1 is in order. :D
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,462
    Sometimes having someone who is hoping for your project to be an utter failure is ironically, the best form of inspiration lol
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    Standard Armacell is too thick for my faceplates. I tried different ways to gasket with it, but it's too thick. Played with it for almost 2 hours.

    I like using poster putty as a gasket in other things, and wonder if it would be like Mortite Junior- not as grippy, but can really squish down to an airtight, sticky layer...

    Having to wait for the coils means I'll start another thread on the 5B while I wait.

    And I have spikes to make for my Rti10. If my idea works, I'll print them for the 1C, 5B, and Monitor 12, too =)
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    And I have spikes to make for my Rti10. If my idea works, I'll print them for the 1C, 5B, and Monitor 12, too

    Plastic spikes are no beuno.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • joebass3
    joebass3 Posts: 284

    plastic_avatar wrote: »
    2 things:

    - Redesigned the terminal plates. Makes more sense to me with this mirrored, horizontally aligned layout. If anyone wants the 3D file, I'll share it.

    c9ej9576qqyc.jpeg

    (

    Just curious why the horizontal layout makes more sense? Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

    u4vg9pz4tmn4.jpg


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  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,462
    @F1nut Absolutely the only posts of yours that I have flagged are ones where you have flamed or slandered me, or on a few occasions another member, which is against forum rules. You are only making yourself look bad.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    Citizens arrest, citizens arrest, citizens arrest.....

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    Gardenstater wrote: »
    @F1nut Absolutely the only posts of yours that I have flagged are ones where you have flamed or slandered me, or on a few occasions another member, which is against forum rules. You are only making yourself look bad.

    I have neither flamed or slandered you by anything I have said as that would require a false statement. Stating your ideas are whacked out is my opinion, which I am entitled to whether you like it or not.

    I will say that you throwing temper tantrums isn't a good reflection on you. So, keep on flagging my posts and when you get to be too much of a pain in someone's side don't be surprised at the result. So, grow up.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 708
    The spikes that came with the Rti10 were plastic, but I misplaced them =(

    Is metal preferred because of density and vibration?

    On differences

    Do this for me, all:

    - If we don't like a mod, and want to dissuade, let's spell out the pitfalls.

    - If we like a mod, and want to coach, let's talk about the benefits.

    - If we feel strongly about a choice someone might make, let's give a rebuttal, but let's not get emotional.

    - Let's not make it personal. We shouldn't insult each other.

    I want to hear it all, positive and negative, but I don't want people fighting, lashing out, calling names, ganging up, putting people down, or just being mean.

    I've got a metric ****-ton of abrasive opinions, but I don't go whipping any of you with them.

    Be excellent to each other, you buncha dome-basses =)
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    Is metal preferred because of density and vibration?

    Basically, yes.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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