Documenting: My SDA-1c upgrades from start to finish

plastic_avatar

bcwsrt wrote: »

...(along with not being able to see what you’re rocking in your signature at the moment)...

My main system? Everything I have was on a budget:

- Yamaha P2250 amp (FB Marketplace)
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/yamaha/p2250.shtml

- Parasound P/HP-850 pre (see in thread above)
https://parasound.com/vintage/php850.php

- Nakamichi CD-4 ($10 thrifting 10 years ago, got remote on ebay for $30, and I love the way it sounds compared to the other consumer players I've had, BUT hoping a better dac makes a difference)
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/nakamichi/cd-4.shtml

- Audiosource EQ-Fourteen (not hooked up, but I'm dying to (sorry @heiney9!)), a $75 shopgoodwill find, in the box, looking like it was never used, with mic
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/450056/Audiosource-Eq-14.html

- Ariston Q Deck (have a Signet needle on it now, but I've got Shure and Stanton and... something else... a Grado...). Was free for helping a friend move. It sounds nice. No frills. It's the belt companion to my main DD turntable.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/ariston/q-deck.shtml

- And my Luxman P-272, that I got out of a dumpster at the WVU Journalism School when they re-did the studio. I was so geeked, I didn't check the dumpster for more than that and the pro tripod I've used for the past 18 years... Haven't figured out which stylus works best on it.
https://audio-database.com/LUXMAN/player/pd272.html

- That little WiiM Mini, which is a pretty kick-**** little device. Beats the pants off an Echo Dot. And wants a real dac to feed into.
https://www.amazon.com/WiiM-Mini-Multiroom-Preamplifier-Assistants/dp/B09HC5GRKY

The 1C are the only things I've put real money into. And it's been worth every penny for the experience. I planned for this to be a fun, meaningful project, and I got it.

So!

My list for improvement right now are:

- dac (@VicBinCT ordered a Geshelli in exactly the same color combo I had in my mind- red with smoky plexi... and I'm curious about it paired with the WiiM)
- room treatment (pre and post finishing the room, since it's an unfinished basement)
- wiring my basement room (right now, I'm running extension cables everywhere (not a good look... or sound)

I figure after those, it's power supplies/conditioners, cables, and prayer.

Thoughts?

bcwsrt

Well, that's considerably more detail than what's in your sig. Lol I'm not familiar with most of the list, but everyone has a budget at the end of the day no matter how big or small it is. There are some DIY room treatment options if you're up for it. Otherwise, that can get pricey. I look at it like it's another component.

Continue enjoying your journey ...

heiney9

A good dac will better the Nak cdp. Many moons ago I had a Nak MB-2s that I thought sounded great, added an Adcom dac and the difference was night and day.

H9

skipshot12

Got yourself a fine piece of gear in that Parasound.
Happy listening.

skipshot12

I found quite a difference when putting my preamp into the system vs the amp being driven directly from the disc player.
Big difference in lower frequency impact.
Bass & drums are sick. A whole nuther level of low end performance of my SDA’s.
Sounds on par or just a tad better than my Infinity Kappa 9’s… and that’s saying something.

plastic_avatar

skipshot12 wrote: »

...Sounds on par or just a tad better than my Infinity Kappa 9’s… and that’s saying something.

That's amazing. I will hear a pair one day.

I always drooled over the Kappas at one audio store, then Klipschorns at another. Those 2 lines/models were my first speaker crushes.

bcwsrt

I'll look forward to your comments on the Geshelli DAC. Pretty cool-looking unit. I see it has a fiber optic input, which is compatible with my Sony CDP-508ESD. While it still sounds pretty good to me, I see comments where its internal DAC is pretty long in the tooth by today's standards.

plastic_avatar

SDA thoughts and questions

- Wow. Listening to Dark Side of the Moon. Original CD master. Though it sounds reserved and veiled (compared to some modern CD mixes I’ve been playing with), a few times the sound on the right wrapped around a good 6ft in front of the speaker plane and outside the right wall. Felt like it was coming towards my ear from someplace it couldn’t be. Wow.

- I may have asked this before, but are there things you do not enjoy hearing on SDA speakers? I think part of my sadness w/ some of my music is it’s just not being processed beautifully (hoping dac will help), or the better my system gets the more I hear bad mixes as… bad? Do you guys go through transitions as you chase a more complete sound? Does better equipment always = less forgiving?

dpowell

I believe the bass on the left is more taut. Could be room, could be coating on the passive chamber, could be both.

Bass isn't as strong in force as the M12, imo, but the quality of it is better. Might be the benefit of SDA clarity?

Perhaps the bass issues might stem from the fact you have them too far out from the back wall and you have them on stands instead of spiked to the floor. You may never know unless you give them a try installed as originally intended by the engineers.

plastic_avatar

You're right, @dpowell, about needing to follow the SDA recommended setup.

Right now, the layout is:

- 3ft from side walls
- 7.5 inches from wall behind speakers (haven't moved them closer yet)
- speakers are on cheapie spikes
- tweaking distance of listening chair, but it's close to recommended proportions
- I removed the stereo cabinet on the right, and put my sub in the right corner and guitar amp in the left (to balance out the objects in the room)

I never put them on stands. I keep thinking about it, because of floor obstacles.

The center tv stand is ahead of the speaker plane. I can't do anything about that for the near future.

heiney9

Piano can sometimes sound "phasey" for lack of a better word. The part of SDA that gives you that "all around, 3D sound" also can cause instruments to be a little diffuse.

I have been an SDA advocate for 35 years. I'm back to conventional speakers again and it's whole new world.

Time will tell what I miss about my SDA's. Not sure I'll ever get rid of them. One thing I have noticed is many of my well recorded live music I enjoy just doesn't have the same impact or "spread" on my L600's like it does on the SDA's. Maybe the word I'm looking for is "scale".

A really good live recording on SDA's can give you goosebumps at just the sheer scale of what's going on. As well as allowing a good live recording to "breath". The stage with SDA's just seems to have the allusion of being bigger on a live recording compared to L600's. It's subtle, but noticeable.

I've always thought SDA's did live recordings the best.

H9

plastic_avatar

Every live song, so far, has really been a treat, @heiney9. I can totally believe SDA is best at that.

I get the piano, too. Best piano so far from my lists is on Come Sail Away. It's sharp and precise, but in other songs... I can hear what you describe.

I'll keep an ear out for things.

So far, the worst song through the 1C is Prince's Kiss.

Prince loved his drum machines. There's an electronic, distorted 'bwuahhhhp' beat throughout the whole song. It sounds like a blown speaker when it hits. I tried CD and then WiiM streaming Amazon and Spotify; all the same. Swapped speakers left to right; all the same. Awful. Unlistenable because of it =(

When I was using my HTR as a pre, I had a similar problem with yhe drum machines on the Purple Rain soundtrack. They sounded so artificial it was unbearable. The Parasound gave it a sound that makes it enjoyable again. It's an artificial drum, yes, but now it sounds like it fits. But that beat on Kiss? Too terrible to listen to =(

dpowell

plastic_avatar wrote: »

I never put them on stands. I keep thinking about it, because of floor obstacles.

The center tv stand is ahead of the speaker plane. I can't do anything about that for the near future.

Got it, my bad. There are too many data points and proposed ideas in this thread to possibly keep track of. 😉

skipshot12

Will have to have a listen to come sail away

xschop

I only have two SDA build threads bookmarked here at the CCP. This being one of them, due to the sheer tenacity and ballz-out work ethic to get it done, irregardless of physical and social obstacles.

Props Steven.

plastic_avatar

dpowell wrote: »

There are too many data points and proposed ideas in this thread to possibly keep track of. 😉

You ain’t wrong.

This thing needs a persistent table of contents:

Prologue
Intro - Evaluation
Chapter 1 - Dismantling
Chapter 2 - All the ideas, everywhere at once
Chapter 3 - Summarized critiques
Chapter 4 - Crossovers and left field musings
Chapter 5 - Summarized critiques part II
Chapter 6 - Tweetering on the Edge, from Wuhan with Love
Chapter 7 - T. McGee and the Case of the Chrome Pasties
Chapter 8 - INCOMING!
[explosions and fire]
Ch p er 9 Su m r z d cr t qu s part Iii
[sounds of people dying, much wailing and gnashing of teeth, howls of despair, like something out of Dante’s Inferno]
Chapter 10 - Hotdogs!

Then it really should be split into Book 2, because it’s better to have 2 volumes when they’re different enough

Maybe 2 books and a hotdog supplemental.

Or, if we edited it to just relevant updates... it'd easily be 75% smaller

But I’m honestly happy to have food knowledge as part of this.

---

Next tests before dac purchase:

- felting or somesuch between mids and tweeters, thinking of DK's remarks on sound w/ plugs on his CRS

- still might raise the 1C up about a foot to clear some obstacles in the room.... it worked for the Monitor 12

Need:

- some homemade sound traps/diffusers on my right wall

I might:

- compare different tweeter plate designs, because I've got those cooked-up, too