Documenting: My SDA-1c upgrades from start to finish
Comments
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Update/Observations
The Studio and Real Wood (RW) cabinets differ in more ways that the construction of the grilles (the Studio's grilles are much thicker and have sharp edges on the inside of the frame).
- The tweeters on the RW are 3x the distance from the top edge of the cabinet than the Studio. They're 2x the distance from the top of the internal cavity than the Studio's, too.
- The distance from the top of the passive to the bottom of the mids is twice the length on the RW, compared to the Studio.
Does this affect what I'll hear?
I expect the grilles might help diffraction against those top and bottom wood overhangs on the RW. I've already got a 3D-print + foam thing in my head to throw together to mitigate the negatives whilst goin' grille'less.
Tweeters
Still don't like the 194 in the top slot.
Still using Dayton up top and 194 on bottom.
Still going to try 4 Daytons when I can, then do some more comparisons.
Monitor 12 dilemma
I *was* going to part out the new 1C, but that seems like a bad option now.
I doubt the M12 will see much use, and 3 pairs of big speakers is pushing it... so, keeping a spare pair of 1C ain't a bad idea. I could part out the M12, instead. I won't get nearly as much out of them whole as I would parted out.
BUT. Question: Anyone use the speaker in the 12 as a replacement for the 1C? Only a few listening takes out there. Listeners seem to like the M12 drivers as a replacement, but a lot of people tell them it's a bad idea.
Friends continue to have 'OMG' moments
"I've listened to this song since 1986. I had no idea his voice was anchored left of center here."
"That guitar is on stage somewhere [gestures with hand] over there."
"I can't get over how wide and complete this soundstage is."
SDA, hey hey.The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage -
So, why not just TL mod and use RD-0198 for all tweeters?
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So, why not just TL mod and use RD-0198 for all tweeters?
Not all can have that mod. -
They already have the LSD mod, no reason to TL them..
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Oh? I didn't know that. Is there any reason why? -
Yes because polk never designed one for it. Some have tried to do it but there's more to it than just placing a cap across a resistor. Some also need inductors changed to accommodate. @inspiredsports did a thread a decade or more ago, I do not remember how it turned out.
All I can tell you is it was not sanctioned by Polk. -
Yes because polk never designed one for it. Some have tried to do it but there's more to it than just placing a cap across a resistor. Some also need inductors changed to accommodate. @inspiredsports did a thread a decade or more ago, I do not remember how it turned out.
All I can tell you is it was not sanctioned by Polk.
Ah yeah, I went to the schematics thread and see that now. Wouldn't someone be able to create a mod pretty easily? We know the T/S for the drivers and we know the values of the XO components, right? It definitely would take work but I can't see it being impossible.
Did inspiredsports have those values or was he working from scratch? -
Of course, he knew the values, but he was still working from scratch. Years ago a few of us visiting Polk HQ asked two of the engineers about a TL mod for the 1C. They looked at each other and agreed it could probably be done (the right way) and that they would look into, but that was the end of it. So, there it is, the end of it.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Of course, he knew the values, but he was still working from scratch. Years ago a few of us visiting Polk HQ asked two of the engineers about a TL mod for the 1C. They looked at each other and agreed it could probably be done (the right way) and that they would look into, but that was the end of it. So, there it is, the end of it.
Well that's nice closure. Too bad it never came to be. -
Of course, he knew the values, but he was still working from scratch. Years ago a few of us visiting Polk HQ asked two of the engineers about a TL mod for the 1C. They looked at each other and agreed it could probably be done (the right way) and that they would look into, but that was the end of it. So, there it is, the end of it.
There was no profit in it for Polk. Now you have the real story.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Tweets
I like the 198 I put in my M12. So far, it's my favorite Polk tweeter. I haven't heard the ring ones, but I imagine they're amazing (based on all the reviews and accounts here).
Related/unrelated: Gardenstater found some info on a neato set of speakers. The tweeters have a backwave absorber that's like a fancy version of my pinkeye testers for the Wuhan.
On the Dayton's:
I put lamb's wool, per xschop's suggestion, in the back chamber of the Daytons. Subtle, but pleasant. A little like heavy cream vs. Half and Half in my coffee.
I still need to order the resistors for the vacant polyswitches. Interested to see how I feel about the 194 after that.
Otherwise, whether they're matched to the crossover or not, we all enjoy the way they sound
Steps
Anyone gave a good method for fixing loose cloth on the sides of the Real Wood?
I have one panel I took off because it was loose. That one will be fine. The other 3? Different story. Dan't want to wreck them pulling them off.
The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage -
I really don't believe that was the case as I knew both of those gentlemen pretty well. They loved vintage Polk speakers and us Polkies. It was a hectic day and while I can't say for sure I believe it was a matter of they simply forgot about it.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Of course, he knew the values, but he was still working from scratch. Years ago a few of us visiting Polk HQ asked two of the engineers about a TL mod for the 1C. They looked at each other and agreed it could probably be done (the right way) and that they would look into, but that was the end of it. So, there it is, the end of it.
There was no profit in it for Polk. Now you have the real story.
You're a fool!! There was no profit in it either when they made one for the CRS+ that they never put out, it just so happened you were able to use with the SDA2b. They still posted the schematics!
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Ok then, they were just lazy.
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Here's an exploded view of that tweeter from that fairly new company in France:
George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
Ok then, they were just lazy.
What a jerk, they could have not done anything for the vintage speakers, but they did. -
No doubt supported them for decades, made how many runs of drivers for replacements 🙄 and redesighed NEW replacement tweeters that cost how many thousands of dollars of R & D and production. AFAIK still making them.
But hey they were lazy.... -
I invoke the wiener clause to pause current hostilities
Jack's, in Midland, MI, has an amazing assortment of hotdog-like sausages.
The brats are amazing.
When I came back last week, after setting up the modded 5(B) for my ailing Dad, on a spur of the moment trip from WV, I stopped off and bought a selection:
^Jalepeno cheddar.The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage -
"Paging Doctor Freud!"
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Sometimes, $90 worth of wieners to share with the extended family is just... awkward.The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
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Full of it
After a lot of thought, I changed up the Dacron/BH5 arrangement.
[gasp]
Yeah, I get it.
[Dune paraphrase]
'Others have tried.'
'Tried and failed?'
'Tried and *died*.'
It bothered me- the arrangement of materials, in relation to the openings on the baskets, the path of reflected sound, and air movement.
So, I decided on some blaphemic experimentation.
There's not a lot of room in the mid chambers to tame reflected waves bouncing off the sides of the chamber and back to the cones, but I believe a better arrangement is splitting the BH5 into narrower pieces and mounting them to the sides of the drivers.
Putting the BH5 blocks behind the Dacron, behind the drivers, increases the absorption of energy within that chamber, but I wondered how effective the inconsistent rolls of material (butting against the basket areas) are compared to lining the immediately adjacent surfaces and filling the tweeter chamber.
So I changed the arrangement.
https://youtu.be/mAXnKge0n3o?si=qa29EqK2UQdt77mA
It uses 1 6x6 inch cube less of Dacron, leaves a better path of air to the passive, puts something in the way of sidewall reflections, and sounds pretty good- anecdotally.
I believe the Armacell mod does a lot for those internal basket reflections, and getting the angled reflections intercepted appropriately from the outside is *potentially* better with a different take.
My love of 8 and 9-ball might have something to do with my obsession with reflections and how things bounce around...
By-ear evaluations will continue when both Real Wood cabs are up and running.
(Thanks to the usual suspects for inspiration.)The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage -
They already have the LSD mod, no reason to TL them..
Don't be afraid to experiment. Mr. Polk did so many o' time. I think I'll continue his work and find a ragged-out set of 1A's to further his research...
Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
Abby Normal
The transplant is complete.
My original 1C parts now live in the Real Wood (RW) cabinets.
Changes:
- Both cabinets have the modded Dacron/BH5 layout. So far, I think it works great . Just listened to Living for the City to see how all the bits sound across the stage. Result is great: clear, separated, airy. Bass response is something I need to report on later because...
- ...I added the aluminum-backed butyl to both passive chambers. I ran the Studios with the left side matted, liked it, so went ahead and did both of the RW like my M12. Because of this *and* since the 1C are underpowered with the backup amp, I'll update on bass when I can feed them appropriately.
- The wire in my Studios is a combination of tinned and bare copper. In the RW, it looks the same. A rewire is in my future.
- I couldn't fit the abutted semi rings to the mids. The cutouts are a hair tighter than the Studios. So, the bottom mids only sport the lower rings.
- One screw won't go in, damn it... so I have to take the passive and lower inside mud out of the right cabinet to fix =[
- I had a nerve twitch, dropped a tool, and lightly scuffed the face of the right speaker in a few spots. I'll use that black rejuvenating stuff you guys recommended to cover it up. It's not a big deal, and it'll buff out, but ARGH.
- The grills on the RW are largely transparent, to me, compared to the Studio.
- Had to mount right crossover differently. Wires were a hair to short on this side =\
The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage -
Running the GFA-555ii again (fixed the bias, but still need to replace the caps).
Imaging and separation is fantastic.
Bass is still there, but the room eats more of it in this orientation. I've got twice the room to fill as before. I just have to turn it up a bit more to feel it in my skull. I don't feel the lined passive chambers hurt anything but boomy, exaggerated, *inaccurate* bass. My opinion.
Definitely more presence/force of presentation than with backup amp.
How much better is the 800 than these old SDAs?The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage -
Almost 30 pages in and we are still discussing this?The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Almost 30 pages in and we are still discussing this?
It's called a forum for a reason.Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists. -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Almost 30 pages in and we are still discussing this?
It's called a forum for a reason.
There is also beating a dead horse...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Almost 30 pages in and we are still discussing this?
Not much good information either. -
nooshinjohn wrote: »Almost 30 pages in and we are still discussing this?
Not much good information either.
Perhaps we could resurrect your twin threads; "Is $2800 to much for a fuse" and "Is $2800 too much for a fuse?"George / NJ
Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
Onkyo A-8017 integrated
Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
iFi nano iDSD DAC
iPurifier3
iDefender w/ iPower PS
Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform -
I came here to chew bubblegum and upgrade my 1C.
And I'm all out of bubblegum.The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
