I've heard them as well....in a noisy large open environment. Due to the conditions, the volume was turned up at times and the four 10" drivers had no problem belting out very full midbass/bass.
Polk's goal was to make a smaller SDA and so naturally they figured out a way to use large conventional woofers in a smaller cabinet vs. smaller woofers and passive radiators. Even with the 10's I could hear good separation but I've heard good separation with some conventional speakers. It was just not the day to get a good ear on them. Maybe someday I'll heard them again under better circumstances.
The left side and the back of this space was open to the other showroom areas:
Anyway, rather a person is 100% correct ,100% incorrect or just has a different opinion or experience, there are cordial ways of communicating. Just saying...
Geez, no wonder, you are sitting sideways on your chair, AND on a phone...lol
And km's agenda marches on. Your notions about audio in general and members of this forum have been proven wrong time after time. Give it up, no one believes you.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
I've got no problem with large loudspeakers, but some of those old SDAs just have/had ...
too many drivers
The idea back then was to use several low cost drivers, and hopefully equal one much larger more expensive woofer.
But lobing and dispersion issues were not at the top of the agenda back then nor as well thought out.
Ive had people see our "Big" sdas and ask why 8 small woofers, instead of maybe 2 10" woofers......not sure, maybe they got a better deal on bulk 6.5" woofers...
Another clueless post from someone that doesn’t know what they are talking about....
Posts like this are what are turning me off to the Polk forum. I'm a firm believer in what my parents taught me over half a century ago. "If you haven't got something nice to say, don't say anything at all." So with that in mind, let me finish this post by saying...nothing at all!
The post you quoted is a public service message. You should be grateful there are people here that care enough to speak up and set the record straight.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
I could do without the public service announcements. I prefer to form my own opinions about the validity of postings made by members here. Fortunately, I can usually tell when someone is "clueless" or when they are just voicing opinions that differ from someone else's opinion on a particular subject. Even if K_M was totally clueless, and I believe she is not, the participants in this thread would have been better served by a meaningful and respectful discussion of the differing opinions.
McIntosh MA252 Integrated Amp, LUMIN D2 Network Music Player, Yamaha Aventage RX-A840 receiver, Emotiva XPA Gen3 2 channel amp, Polk LSiM 703 speakers. Oppo UDP-203 Blu-Ray player, Polk LSiM 705 speakers. Polk Signature S20 speakers.
That has been tried until we are blue in the face. If you take the time to review threads going back a long ways, you will find that even people from Polk Audio pointed out where KM is wrong or misunderstands what she posts and even then continues to insist everybody else, including Polk, is wrong.
We are at the point where engaging in the back and forth with her is fruitless.
The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 505 SACD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.
Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
We are at the point where engaging in the back and forth with her is fruitless.
Then say nothing at all.
Yet, you have.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
We are at the point where engaging in the back and forth with her is fruitless.
Then say nothing at all.
Yet, you have.
Yes, here I am having a conversation with you and John. We may disagree with each other, but there is no disrespect or name calling on either side. This is the way I think it should be. Kudos to both of you gentlemen.
McIntosh MA252 Integrated Amp, LUMIN D2 Network Music Player, Yamaha Aventage RX-A840 receiver, Emotiva XPA Gen3 2 channel amp, Polk LSiM 703 speakers. Oppo UDP-203 Blu-Ray player, Polk LSiM 705 speakers. Polk Signature S20 speakers.
What was I thinking? I saw four new posts for this thread and got all excited but it's all ****. I love SDA and am very interested with the new line. Seems silly that I have weed through all this crap:( I have to apologize, I guess by posting this I'm part of the problem.
What was I thinking? I saw four new posts for this thread and got all excited but it's all ****. I love SDA and am very interested with the new line. Seems silly that I have weed through all this crap:( I have to apologize, I guess by posting this I'm part of the problem.
Yeah sorry for my part in this also.
I fell victim to the gang of know it all's.
I could do without the public service announcements. I prefer to form my own opinions about the validity of postings made by members here. Fortunately, I can usually tell when someone is "clueless" or when they are just voicing opinions that differ from someone else's opinion on a particular subject. Even if K_M was totally clueless, and I believe she is not, the participants in this thread would have been better served by a meaningful and respectful discussion of the differing opinions.
I am truly exicted to see any measurements that Stereophile does on the new line of speakers!
I guess to really hear the SDA imaging, it would be quite limited to a very narrow listening spot.
Yup, that's the one problem to SDA, very narrow listening spot. I wonder if the new line has a little bigger sweet spot. Seeing as how they lined the chairs up in row I'm thinking this is not the case.
Polk’s manual recommends speakers set up only 6 to 8 feet apart with the music listener 10 to 12 feet away. At least 3 feet from speakers to side walls unless the walls are treated to absorb reflections. Owners will have to adjust to what sounds best to them. No different than it’s always been with SDA speakers. If a room is too small for proper setup, the speakers won’t sound their best.
Room shape and size will affect the sound but the speakers are designed for normal homes, not concert halls. I’ve never heard anyone say their listening space was too big for SDA to work as intended in their home.
FWIW, all stereo speakers if set up properly for music listening have a small sweet spot where a listener can hear the best stereo imaging reproduced. Normally this setup for conventional speakers will be so they are toed in and roughly in an equilateral triangle. The L800s are a bit different in that regard.
Conventional speakers can be set up so they are wider apart for home theater use and toed in to whatever degree covers the main seating area with good enough sound. Mine are around 12 feet apart and 12 feet from the main listening area. A center speaker anchors the sound in the middle. Stereo imaging in that system is not really the primary concern because DSP comes into play to address timing and room reflections.
Personally, I think the L600s would be better suited to home theater setups because of cost and functionality, but the L800s better for a music only system where a single owner wants to be in the sweet spot to get the best experience.
1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables 2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables 3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
I agree Emlyn. The SDA image is only smeared by being too close to a side wall. The illusion of a bigger space would be at its best without sidewall refections. A long wall would not have a negative affect to the illusion.
Given the placement considerations, I think a listening room around 18 to 20 feet by 18 to 20 feet or so would be better than something smaller. These are not speakers to cram into a 10 foot by 10 foot man cave. They need room to do their thing.
1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables 2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables 3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
This is worth repeating because some still don't get it.
all stereo speakers if set up properly for music listening have a small sweet spot where a listener can hear the best stereo imaging reproduced.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
What was I thinking? I saw four new posts for this thread and got all excited but it's all ****. I love SDA and am very interested with the new line. Seems silly that I have weed through all this crap:( I have to apologize, I guess by posting this I'm part of the problem.
Yeah sorry for starting yet another mess.
Fixed
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
This is worth repeating because some still don't get it.
all stereo speakers if set up properly for music listening have a small sweet spot where a listener can hear the best stereo imaging reproduced.
Very true but the SDA line seem to be the most head in a vice speakers of all. Earlier models were worse but they made improvments. Let's hope the L800 is the best yet.
Yup, that's the one problem to SDA, very narrow listening spot. I wonder if the new line has a little bigger sweet spot. Seeing as how they lined the chairs up in row I'm thinking this is not the case.
Interaural crosstalk cancellation actually facilitates a wider and deeper sound stage and a wider and deeper sweet spot. Imaging will be best at dead center, however the sound stage should remain stable for some distance away from dead center. With some speakers I have auditioned, the sound stage collapsed with only minor head movements of a few inches to either side (the dreaded "head in a vice" requirement).
In my experience, SDAs have generated a much wider sweet spot (2-3 ft. wide) than conventional stereo speakers. Of course, the size of the sweet spot will vary depending on the quality of the signal fed to the speakers, distance from the front of the speakers, room acoustics, and how the speakers are placed in the room. With my 1.2TLs, the sound stage does not collapse with small lateral head movements, or even with turning my head nearly 90 degrees to either side.
The chairs in a line is the standard laboratory arrangement for having several people evaluate a stereo speaker pair at the same time. Even with a wide sweet spot, it is not desirable to have any obstruction near either ear during critical listening sessions.
Post edited by DarqueKnight on
"So hot it burnsMice!"~DK
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
Cool. Music Direct would be better for me...local sales tax avoidance!
Listing says they may be available for shipping in two to three weeks. Getting closer.
1. Polk LSiM707, 704C, 703; Dual SVS SB2000 subwoofers; Marantz SR7011 receiver; Parasound A23 amp; Oppo 205; Sony 65" 4K TV; FIOS; PS Audio Power Plant Premier; MIT S2 cables 2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables 3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
Very true but the SDA line seem to be the most head in a vice speakers of all. Earlier models were worse but they made improvments. Let's hope the L800 is the best yet.
Properly set up SDAs should exhibit the opposite sweet spot size characteristics. This was true from the earliest SDAs. The quote below is from Matthew Polk's 1984 Audio magazine article on SDA technology (page 40, column 3, under "Audible Benefits"):
"The finished system, in many respects, has exceeded our expectations. The flexibility of listening position is greater than was expected, allowing not only front-to-back movement, but substantial side-to-side tolerance as well. Analysis of signals at the ears for listening locations off the central axis somewhat justifies this, but predicts a more dramatic image shift than the "changing seats in a concert hall" effect actually observed. More easily explained is the observation that phantom sources localized to the sides seem to remain stationary as the listener moves away from the system, rather than moving with the listener."
"So hot it burnsMice!"~DK
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
Comments
Geez, no wonder, you are sitting sideways on your chair, AND on a phone...lol
B+W-Sold
Electro Voice EV-SIX
Infinity-Sold
Advent-Now gone
Yamaha A-S801
Yamaha RX-V377
Yamaha RX-A860
Yamaha RX-A3060
Harman Kardon Hk-350i
Harman Kardon Hk-........
Harman Kardon PM-665
Harman Kardon HK-775
Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
The post you quoted is a public service message. You should be grateful there are people here that care enough to speak up and set the record straight.
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
We are at the point where engaging in the back and forth with her is fruitless.
Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
Then say nothing at all.
Yet, you have.
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Yes, here I am having a conversation with you and John. We may disagree with each other, but there is no disrespect or name calling on either side. This is the way I think it should be. Kudos to both of you gentlemen.
Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
No accountability.
HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
Yeah sorry for my part in this also.
I fell victim to the gang of know it all's.
B+W-Sold
Electro Voice EV-SIX
Infinity-Sold
Advent-Now gone
Yamaha A-S801
Yamaha RX-V377
Yamaha RX-A860
Yamaha RX-A3060
Harman Kardon Hk-350i
Harman Kardon Hk-........
Harman Kardon PM-665
Harman Kardon HK-775
Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver
I am truly exicted to see any measurements that Stereophile does on the new line of speakers!
B+W-Sold
Electro Voice EV-SIX
Infinity-Sold
Advent-Now gone
Yamaha A-S801
Yamaha RX-V377
Yamaha RX-A860
Yamaha RX-A3060
Harman Kardon Hk-350i
Harman Kardon Hk-........
Harman Kardon PM-665
Harman Kardon HK-775
Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver
Hmm....yeah I was kidding with you!..
I guess to really hear the SDA imaging, it would be quite limited to a very narrow listening spot.
B+W-Sold
Electro Voice EV-SIX
Infinity-Sold
Advent-Now gone
Yamaha A-S801
Yamaha RX-V377
Yamaha RX-A860
Yamaha RX-A3060
Harman Kardon Hk-350i
Harman Kardon Hk-........
Harman Kardon PM-665
Harman Kardon HK-775
Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver
Or do you recommend him for the break in period?
Yup, that's the one problem to SDA, very narrow listening spot. I wonder if the new line has a little bigger sweet spot. Seeing as how they lined the chairs up in row I'm thinking this is not the case.
Does the effect diminish in a larger bare room?
Does the "sweet spot" shrink in a smaller room?
soup bone beat it/me to the punch!
Room shape and size will affect the sound but the speakers are designed for normal homes, not concert halls. I’ve never heard anyone say their listening space was too big for SDA to work as intended in their home.
https://d3vqw2nv1topde.cloudfront.net/assets/Product Documents/Legend/Polk_Legend_Owners_Manual_English_L800_MP.pdf
FWIW, all stereo speakers if set up properly for music listening have a small sweet spot where a listener can hear the best stereo imaging reproduced. Normally this setup for conventional speakers will be so they are toed in and roughly in an equilateral triangle. The L800s are a bit different in that regard.
Conventional speakers can be set up so they are wider apart for home theater use and toed in to whatever degree covers the main seating area with good enough sound. Mine are around 12 feet apart and 12 feet from the main listening area. A center speaker anchors the sound in the middle. Stereo imaging in that system is not really the primary concern because DSP comes into play to address timing and room reflections.
Personally, I think the L600s would be better suited to home theater setups because of cost and functionality, but the L800s better for a music only system where a single owner wants to be in the sweet spot to get the best experience.
2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Fixed
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
Very true but the SDA line seem to be the most head in a vice speakers of all. Earlier models were worse but they made improvments. Let's hope the L800 is the best yet.
Interaural crosstalk cancellation actually facilitates a wider and deeper sound stage and a wider and deeper sweet spot. Imaging will be best at dead center, however the sound stage should remain stable for some distance away from dead center. With some speakers I have auditioned, the sound stage collapsed with only minor head movements of a few inches to either side (the dreaded "head in a vice" requirement).
In my experience, SDAs have generated a much wider sweet spot (2-3 ft. wide) than conventional stereo speakers. Of course, the size of the sweet spot will vary depending on the quality of the signal fed to the speakers, distance from the front of the speakers, room acoustics, and how the speakers are placed in the room. With my 1.2TLs, the sound stage does not collapse with small lateral head movements, or even with turning my head nearly 90 degrees to either side.
The chairs in a line is the standard laboratory arrangement for having several people evaluate a stereo speaker pair at the same time. Even with a wide sweet spot, it is not desirable to have any obstruction near either ear during critical listening sessions.
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/Polk-Audio-Legend-L800-Tower-Speakers?variant=APOLKLL800N?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=ppc&msclkid=85bd371afe9616991e936ada35536a51
Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
TMI... Spanky
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
Listing says they may be available for shipping in two to three weeks. Getting closer.
2. JM Labs Electra 920.1; Sonic Frontiers Line 3 Preamp; Classe Model 25 amp; Sony HAP-Z1ES; Oppo 105D; Music Hall MMF7 and Acoustech phono pre; PS Audio Power Director; MIT S1 Cables
3. Polk LSiM703; Parasound JC2BP and A21; Sony 48" 4K TV; Wyred4Sound DAC 2; Oppo 203; Squeezebox Touch; MIT S3 cables
Properly set up SDAs should exhibit the opposite sweet spot size characteristics. This was true from the earliest SDAs. The quote below is from Matthew Polk's 1984 Audio magazine article on SDA technology (page 40, column 3, under "Audible Benefits"):
"The finished system, in many respects, has exceeded our expectations. The flexibility of listening position is greater than was expected, allowing not only front-to-back movement, but substantial side-to-side tolerance as well. Analysis of signals at the ears for listening locations off the central axis somewhat justifies this, but predicts a more dramatic image shift than the "changing seats in a concert hall" effect actually observed. More easily explained is the observation that phantom sources localized to the sides seem to remain stationary as the listener moves away from the system, rather than moving with the listener."
The 1984 article is attached below.
"Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
"Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
"Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's