Looking forward to L800 but have concerns, what are your thoughts?

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Comments

  • stevep
    stevep Posts: 327
    it is not desirable to have any obstruction near either ear during critical listening sessions.

    I got the chance to hear the L800 last night and this was very apparent. Any "shadowing" greatly reduced the imaging and impression of an extended sound stage. As long as you weren't sitting with someone else blocking either speaker there was quite a bit of latitude in position from center left to right or front to back.

    6at4530ctiny.jpg
  • pglbook
    pglbook Posts: 2,161
    stevep wrote: »
    it is not desirable to have any obstruction near either ear during critical listening sessions.

    I got the chance to hear the L800 last night and this was very apparent. Any "shadowing" greatly reduced the imaging and impression of an extended sound stage. As long as you weren't sitting with someone else blocking either speaker there was quite a bit of latitude in position from center left to right or front to back.

    6at4530ctiny.jpg

    I think you are one of the first Polkies to hear the L800s in person and we'd be interested to know your impressions of them in some more detail. Thanks.

  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 24,981
    The listening room is not doing any favors either...
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,874
    edited November 2019
    The listening room is not doing any favors either...

    is that Masonite paneling or lauan on the back wall?

    :#
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,628
    edited November 2019
    I bet that baseboard heater rings like a mofuggah. HAHAHAHA

    Vanilla edited M0F0!!! :p
  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,465
    Reminds me of a 1970's basement.
  • Viking64
    Viking64 Posts: 6,628
    DaveHo wrote: »
    Reminds me of a 1970's basement.

    Yeah, it's just screaming for some orange shag carpet and a few beanbag chairs. Dave, are you up for a game of Pong®? :p
  • tonyb wrote: »
    Head in a vice ?? With SDA's ?

    When I see extremely misinformed comments like that it makes me wonder if the person isn't just parroting what they read elsewhere, rather than speaking from personal experience.

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • stevep wrote: »
    I got the chance to hear the L800 last night...
    6at4530ctiny.jpg

    So glad to see Polk requiring proper seating arrangement for stereophonic evaluation. The typical "row seating" at these kind of events has been a peeve for many, many years.

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • soupbone
    soupbone Posts: 104
    tonyb wrote: »
    Head in a vice ?? With SDA's ?

    When I see extremely misinformed comments like that it makes me wonder if the person isn't just parroting what they read elsewhere, rather than speaking from personal experience.

    Well...I must have been doing something wrong that last 33 years. Three different houses and a lot of different equipment. My image has always been high & wide with lack of depth. So wide that, while on the second floor, I've checked the porch door for someone knocking while listening to Phil Collins, One More Night. I've been startled out of my mind with sonic images a full 90 degrees to the left or right. I love the SDA sound and the illusion it provides but my listening position has always been super tight to keep that illusion balanced. While listening to Karen Carpenter I can hear the piano well to the right of the speaker but if I move my head a few inches it collapes and the piano shifts to right edge of the speaker. Maybe I'm doing something wrong:(
  • stevep
    stevep Posts: 327
    I was lucky to have 5 mins with Stu before the room started to fill up.

    I was impressed with the L800's ability to throw images far outside the space between the two towers but I had trouble with the images rest of the soundstage. They seemed compressed and overlapping. I can't say if that was due to my ears, the room, the source recording, or the speakers but it was disappointing considering how strong the images were at the extremes.
  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 4,470
    I'm out.
    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears
  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 501
    Is this comparing to your 1.2tl's or what other polks?
    stevep wrote: »
    I was lucky to have 5 mins with Stu before the room started to fill up.

    I was impressed with the L800's ability to throw images far outside the space between the two towers but I had trouble with the images rest of the soundstage. They seemed compressed and overlapping. I can't say if that was due to my ears, the room, the source recording, or the speakers but it was disappointing considering how strong the images were at the extremes.

  • aprazer402
    aprazer402 Posts: 3,076
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    is that Masonite paneling or lauan on the back wall?

    :#

    Looking at the vertical boards above the red curtains (there appears to be windows behind the curtains) the variety of the grain in the boards leads me to believe the wall is not paneling, but individual oak boards butted together vertically. The sheen is pretty glossy where the lights shines on them near the top, so I would guess a poly or lacquer was applied. I may be wrong, it's hard to tell from a photo. We used to call Lauan or Luan, Filipino mahogany years ago.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,007
    edited November 2019
    I had a jam session with my SRS2s and other sets today.
    The sound stage was the size of that paneling. This song was like a live stage act!
    Seriously. :D
    I forgot to add this...I hope the new SDAs can match the magic I heard today. ;)
    https://youtu.be/tfeV2ZDP3UY
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Tears for beers fears! Love em! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Oleta Adams kills it on Woman in Chains! I picked up a few of her solo albums.
    3q0tlm2awy5e.png
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,007
    She seems to be an excellent tweeter test voice. ;):)
    https://youtu.be/QzkK3ZtI9SU
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • mpitogo
    mpitogo Posts: 475
    Heard them, pretty amazing!
    • Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
    • Media Room Ht-7.2.6/13.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x4], height LSiM703 [x6], HSU VTF-15H MK2 Dual | Marantz AV8805A | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Sony UBP-X800 | AppleTV 4K | JVC RS2100
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    • Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
  • soupbone wrote: »
    Well...I must have been doing something wrong that last 33 years. Three different houses and a lot of different equipment. My image has always been high & wide with lack of depth. So wide that, while on the second floor, I've checked the porch door for someone knocking while listening to Phil Collins, One More Night. I've been startled out of my mind with sonic images a full 90 degrees to the left or right. I love the SDA sound and the illusion it provides but my listening position has always been super tight to keep that illusion balanced. While listening to Karen Carpenter I can hear the piano well to the right of the speaker but if I move my head a few inches it collapes and the piano shifts to right edge of the speaker. Maybe I'm doing something wrong:(

    Thank you for further details.

    The kind of imaging collapse you experience is typical of what I hear with most conventional speakers, but never with SDAs, not even with electronics of mid-level performance capability. The lack of depth you describe is also of concern.

    What you describe could be caused by some defect in the crossover (miswiring or bad component) or the characteristics of your hearing, or a combination of the two. The noise characteristics of audio electronics can also cause imaging anomalies. Whatever the cause, as I, and others on the forum, and even Matthew Polk have stated, what you have been experiencing runs counter to the design and performance of SDAs.








    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • stevep wrote: »
    I was lucky to have 5 mins with Stu before the room started to fill up.

    Which dealer hosted this event?

    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    verb wrote: »
    Oleta Adams kills it on Woman in Chains! I picked up a few of her solo albums.
    Tony M wrote: »
    She seems to be an excellent tweeter test voice. ;):)
    On man, I'm a sucker for 80's- early 90's Pop, British Invasion, R&B, Pop Rock, House Music, Dance stuff. Tears for Fears, Oleta Adams, yeah man! The Mrs. says I get stuck in that era...she's right.

    Verb, did you get the 'Circle of One' album? Its a nice album, I love the songs "Get Here", and "Everything Must Change"

    If you like Oleta, you might like these;

    Anita Baker - 'You Bring Me Joy'
    Regina Belle - 'Make it Like it Was'
    Brenda Russell - 'Piano In The Dark'
    Randy Crawford - 'Street life'
    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Oh yeah! I have Circle of One, and Best Of. Love em! :)
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • mpitogo
    mpitogo Posts: 475
    edited November 2019
    I have a stereo pair of L800 on the way from a local dealer, paper work all signed... before what comes next below. Of course I listened to them first and was impressed before signing. I was not totally blown away since these show rooms tend to have issues but I can still hear the potential.

    Continuing from my post 319 above

    So after coming back for a second listening, still impressive. I asked a few questions and it sparked a discussion around something I think everyone should know about the SDA interconnect between L/R speakers.

    If your amps are balanced differential then the SDA effect will not be as pronounced because the SDA signal will lose half of the waveform produced. At least that was my interpretation from Scott Orth.

    I love the sound of my McIntosh with the LSiM 707 but the new L800 SDA brought in a new listening dimension and I would like to take advantage of it but I will not give up my amp. I'm now a bit worried the true potential of why I'm buying the L800 in the first place will be moot as the dimensional array will not function correctly.

    I have an RB-1590 in the closet and it was not my favorite amp with my LSiM 707s. While it was adequate, it did not provide the liveliness and full bodied sound I found from my Quad Balanced McIntosh. The latter I felt had more slam and oompf while at the same time the smoothness and finesse to handle the speaker. I realize the RB-1590 maybe more suitable for the SDA since it is not a true balanced amp design end to end so will feed the SDA cable the full signal. To me the RB-1590 is nice but a down grade.

    Besides the SDA dilemma another realization today was that the LSiM 707 are not "8 ohm" speakers they are "8 ohm compatible" speakers which are per Polk Audio realistically closer to 4 ohm speakers. All this time I have been incorrectly using the 8 ohm taps on my amp. I will need to experiment and see if the magic is gone when moving to the 4 ohm taps.

    Yikes I am in for a world of hurt.

    Is there a way tweak trick SDA to get a the full waveform from a balanced amp? Do anyone who own the older SDA use balanced amps with your setup?

    REL article on balanced amps
    • Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
    • Media Room Ht-7.2.6/13.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x4], height LSiM703 [x6], HSU VTF-15H MK2 Dual | Marantz AV8805A | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Sony UBP-X800 | AppleTV 4K | JVC RS2100
    • Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV 4K | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
    • Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
    • Office-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX, DSW microPRO3000 | Rotel RA-1570 | Marantz HD-CD1
    • Daughter's Bedroom 1-2.0 TBD Martin Logan Forte
    • Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Martin Logan Forte
    • Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
    • Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080 | TV
    • Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Well, congrats on your purchase of the L800's! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • ptrooper
    ptrooper Posts: 501
    edited November 2019
    Wow,Yes,Gratz on the purchase.I bet all your worries disappear while your running them in!
    Can't wait on our feed back.

    I gather Scott must know this and informed you from the manual supplied with the floor stock L800's ?
    Are the left and right channels truely isolated!
    I wouldn't want anything that removes half of the wave form to each channel .

  • motorstereo
    motorstereo Posts: 2,034
    Congrats to you on your purchase and I'm looking forward to your impressions on them and especially paired with your Mcintosh gear.
    I run my modded 1.2tl's with a pair of fully balanced mc1201's (the phrase quad balanced hadn't been coined yet) and I honestly could not be happier with that pairing. I've used several different amps over the years and the 1201's make them sound their very best by a long shot. If there is a diminished sda effect (there's not) I haven't noticed it.
    Perhaps your dealer may let you try a non Mac amp with similar specs just to put your mind at ease?
  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,341
    The article above from REL concerns McIntosh monoblock amplifiers, which the MC452 is not. It's a single chassis stereo amplifier that puts out a lot of power regardless of speaker load. The MC452 does use what they call "Quad Balanced" technology that McIntosh has used for a very long time because people like the sound it produces (i.e. euphonic distortion that's pleasant to the ears).

    I would use the MC452 and see how it sounds then compare the SDA imaging with a different amp. My bet is the MC452 will still sound better than the Rotel.

    Here's a good review from earlier this year of the update to the MC452 that explains what's going on inside that type of amp, and the comment section is pretty informative too:

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/mcintosh-laboratory-mc462-power-amplifier
  • mpitogo
    mpitogo Posts: 475
    Thank appreciate the feedback. Hoping I am worrying for noting when they land next week. They don’t do Saturday delivery 🤨

    @Emlyn yes the REL article did not mention it since it was referring to monoblocks, I couldn’t find similar articles but it does refer to amp topology at the bottom. Single ended vs balanced different. The topology is the same in the MC452 in a shared chassis.
    • Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
    • Media Room Ht-7.2.6/13.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x4], height LSiM703 [x6], HSU VTF-15H MK2 Dual | Marantz AV8805A | Rotel RB-1590 (L/R) | Appollon NC500 11ch | Sony UBP-X800 | AppleTV 4K | JVC RS2100
    • Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV 4K | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
    • Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
    • Office-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX, DSW microPRO3000 | Rotel RA-1570 | Marantz HD-CD1
    • Daughter's Bedroom 1-2.0 TBD Martin Logan Forte
    • Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Martin Logan Forte
    • Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
    • Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080 | TV
    • Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine