Do power cables make a difference?

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  • FestYboy
    FestYboy Posts: 3,862
    I can totally appreciate @tonyb 's post, and I get it (to a point). But it also shows that the work hasn't been done yet, an I mean work by there isn't an established correlation between cable sonic signature (or any component for that matter) and how it sounds. Blind testing with a sizeable test group to establish a commonality would be required, then breaking it all down to find that "thing" that establishes the difference.

    I'll be ok with that up until it's time for me to make a purchase, then the objectivist in me is gonna have an issue. (My problem, not being imposed on anyone else).
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  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    FestYboy wrote: »
    I can totally appreciate @tonyb 's post, and I get it (to a point). But it also shows that the work hasn't been done yet, an I mean work by there isn't an established correlation between cable sonic signature (or any component for that matter) and how it sounds. Blind testing with a sizeable test group to establish a commonality would be required, then breaking it all down to find that "thing" that establishes the difference.

    I'll be ok with that up until it's time for me to make a purchase, then the objectivist in me is gonna have an issue. (My problem, not being imposed on anyone else).

    Seriously doubt that it would work that way. Being that it's ONLY A LINK IN A CHAIN you have to consider upstream and downstream components. Not all will work the same with every cord and it's geometry and makeup. Too many variable, which is what we've been saying all along.

    It's organic, more or less.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,221
    ^ Bingo ^
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 30,057
    edited April 2018
    We were actually busy out in the actual world ("meatspace" as some would have it) today :p but I wanted to say a word (ok many words!) about the Amp Camp Amp -- since the ACA got brought up in this thread (for whatever reason).

    As many folks here may know, do the the extreme (nay, the outrageous) kindness and generosity of an anonymous forum member, there's a rather tricked-out ACA -- one which was laid out and reduced to practice by the forum's own @ALL212 -- on a long-term visitation at our house.

    I've been listening to it exclusively for a week and a half or so, mostly on the Frankenaltecs (but also on some other highish-sensitivity loudspeakers). Nelson Pass designed the amp as an entry level exercise to teach (or at least to reveal) how simple a fine sounding amplifier can be, and how fine sounding a simple amplifier can be. The ACA breaks many of the de facto rules of modern solid state hifi design, being a single-ended solid state amplifier with very little (if any?) negative feedback. As such, it is inefficient (SE power amplifiers operate in Class A by definition), low powered (due to the simplicity and fairly low P/S voltage), and possesses fairly high output impedance (low "damping factor") and not particularly low distortion (of the harmonic kind, at least).

    In fact, on paper it "measures" a lot like a single-ended 2A3 amplifier.

    ... and it has some of the there-ness and soul of an SE 2A3 amp. It even does a little better in terms of bass (extension and definition) than my SE 2A3 amps -- probably because I didn't spend an order of magnitude more on the output transformers equipping the latter! Where the 2A3 amp beats the ACA (edit: to my ears and taste) is in the richness and palpability of the midrange. The ACA ain't bad at all -- but the 2A3 just plain has soul in the midrange that the ACA doesn't quite get.

    This being said, the ACA costs a fraction of a stereo 2A3 amplifier, and also costs a fraction of almost any (at least current production) solid state amplifier that would sound as good.

    The trade-offs are profound (the choice of appropriate loudspeakers will be much more critical for success with the ACA than a typical ss amplifier), but the opportunity to learn is great.

    Now, this has absolutely nothing to do with power cables (since the ACA is designed to run off of a laptop computer "brick" type power supply*) :p but either of the amplifiers mentioned above (ACA or SE 2A3) will quickly and emphatically reveal
    how important everything else in the chain can be to the final, audible product.

    :)

    _______________
    * It would of course be possible, and maybe quite interesting, to design and implement an old-school linear power supply for the ACA. :)
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  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 7,825
    edited April 2018
    Why they do yes they do. Here is one the OP should try out himself.

    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/181548/shunyata-research-diamonback-powerecord-20a-c19-5-5ft-long#latest

    Try it out and see what you think. If it is not up your alley you should be able to resell it pretty easily. I should get this and try it out at that price.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
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  • mpitogo
    mpitogo Posts: 462
    @gudnoyez unfortunately my components are all C13. For sale is a C19. I was this -><- close to picking up an AQ power cable while at my local BB (for another Airport Express, AirPlay zone spdif to an MA5200) but then what do I upgrade to make the most difference? Preamp, Amp etc. Also they only had one left so I passed.

    Currently streaming some Tidal

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    Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
    Media Room HT-7.2.4/11.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x4], height LSiM703 [x4], HSU VTF-15H MK2 Dual | Marantz AV8805A | Appollon NC500 11ch | Sony UBP-X800 | AppleTV | JVC RS2100
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    Of Course they do!

    Everything Matters!

    lord does even amp or speaker make a difference?j

    Here is just my thoughts! As I have went thru many different ones starting with the Pangea's and Franks Signal cables one..now I have Voodoo cable & PS Audi and Douglas Connections power cable and a Audio art I got from Marvin that sounded to good to ever sell!

    I trust what Marvin or Skip tell me to try and they have never failed me! so why have i never tried wireWorld or cullen? I never said I was the sharpest tool in the shed!
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 15,422
    ......not according to some forums.....

    LOL

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~

    ~ I have found excellence ~

    ~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~

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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Yes power cables make a difference! If I didn't upgrade all of my power cables I would have money for the Sub that I want. I do need to upgrade all of my Sub power cables though.
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  • voltz
    voltz Posts: 5,384
    but as so many others here have said so many times...

    Try them for yourself and make your own opinions on the subject!

    Don't trust me or any piece of paper...trust your own ears as that is all that matters in this game.

    If you don't hear a difference then maybe you setup can't hear any difference or your ears... consider yourself lucky as your going to save a lot of $$$ and stay away from that hole :p

    Enjoy your ride in the audio world! may it be a good one! Hope you find something special to listen to.


    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
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  • mpitogo
    mpitogo Posts: 462
    Do recording studios use upgraded power cables? I’m thinking maybe or not...
    Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Denafrips Ares II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
    Media Room HT-7.2.4/11.1 (Atmos/Auro-3D) Polk LSiM707, LSiM706c, LSiM702 F/X [x4], height LSiM703 [x4], HSU VTF-15H MK2 Dual | Marantz AV8805A | Appollon NC500 11ch | Sony UBP-X800 | AppleTV | JVC RS2100
    Game Room-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X, DSW microPRO3000 | Marantz SR7009 | AppleTV | Xbox One S | Sony PS2, PS3 | Nintendo Wii | Gaming PC | Sony 75" LCD
    Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570 (Treble) | Rotel RB-1590 (Bass) | Marantz HD-CD1
    Office-2.0 Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX | Marantz PM-10 | Marantz SA-10 | SONY PS-HX500
    Daughter's Bedroom 1-2.0 TBD Martin Logan Forte
    Guest Room 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Martin Logan Forte
    Guest Room 3-3.0 Martin Logan Motion 40, 50XT | Onkyo TX-SR705 | Apple TV | Samsung 55" TV
    Guest Room 4-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080 | TV
    Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,221
    edited April 2018
    Recording studios and the reproduction of music in a home are not the same. That said, some of best studios use high end cables including power cords from MIT or Shunyata.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,255
    One of many professional use of Shunyata power cables and power conditioners.

    "Located in the United Kingdom, Astoria Studio is widely recognized as one of the most respected recording studios in the world. Owned by David Gilmour of Pink Floyd, Astoria has served as recording venue to some of the most renowned recording artists in the music industry. Anyone familiar with the state-of-the-art production values on Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, Momentary Lapse of Reason, The Division Bell, and David Gilmour in Concert 2002 DVD, can appreciate the meticulous nature with which the Pink Floyd albums are put together. Astoria Studio’s principles are renowned for reviewing every aspect of their recording chain continually. It was this perfectionist approach that led Astoria to seek out and implement Shunyata Research’s Hydra power distribution systems, PowerSnakes power cables and Aeros Series signal cables to their state-of-the-art recording equipment. Astoria’s principle engineers actively endorse Shunyata Research products to other studios and mastering engineers and have paved the way for may subsequent Shunyata studio applications."

    http://shunyata.com/professionals-comment/
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,102
    Suh-weet.

    My Venom 14s should be shipping this week! :)
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 7,884
    Just in general my experience

    Silver core metal - cleaner edges of music, less hash
    Larger gauge of power cable - more bass, warmth

    Just my 2 cents
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Primary:
    Digital: Torus RM15 -> Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x/TSDx
    Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
    Pre/Amp/Speakers: Audio Research Ref40 -> Boulder 2060 (w/ AQ WEL Signature) -> ??? + JL F113v2 x2 + JL CR1
    Secondary:
    Rotel RA1592 -> SF Olympica 3
    Tertiary:
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570/RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2
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  • machone
    machone Posts: 1,337
    Impressive
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
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    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
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  • dolbyd
    dolbyd Posts: 430
    So I found another site talking about cables and found that Jay Victor is member of the site.
    I did a search on PS Audio and Pangea and found a member who thought they were the same cable due to PS Audio using Patents from Jay.

    This was his response.

    No, Pangea cables and PS Audio cables are definitely not the same. XLO is the best I can do. Pangea is the most cost effective, and yes, does not rely on different shape conductors. It is interesting how good they sound, because it proves the importance of the geometry itself, without relying on very exotic materials. PS Audio is a step up from Pangea, and does offer better performance, and does utilize my patented conductor shapes. Thanks to all for the enthusiastic response to Pangea. I am very happy to be able to offer something that offers so much performance for such a modest price. Correction: I do not own Pangea. I design and manufacture the cables. Pangea is owned by WS Distributing. Thanks for your support!!! - Jay Victor
    Main room- RTiA9 x4, CSiA6, in ceiling Atmos RT-70 x4, SVS PC 4000 x2, Marantz 8805A, OPPO 203, Emotiva DR3 G3, Emotiva XPA-2 G3, Emotiva XPA-5 G3, Emotiva X300, Sony 75" 940E, Panasonic Plasma VT50, PS Audio Power Port X2, PS Audio AC-5 x8, AQ Rocket 33 Biwire speaker cables, AQ King Cobra XLR IC, Furman PFi20 W/Cullen cable, SoildSteel S4-4 rack, Gik room treatments

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,385
    I've been through power cords of all kinds of levels and I've noticed very little differences in overall performance. Cost vs performance gains in my opinion might not be worth the retail price. If you can get them used or a good discount then the value goes up.
    I use all custom power cords in my system for 2 reasons. 1 I like the small benefit in overall performance and lower noise floor and 2 I really like having correct length so I don't have a power cord mess behind my rack I gotta deal with. I upgrade and test gear all the time so having shorter power cords is golden.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,102
    It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,623
    edited April 2018
    Clipdat wrote: »
    It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.

    And you haven't spent a fortune on a power cable yet. Imagine a 500.00 one. I'm reading more and more confirmations on what a good power cable can do. ;)

    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
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  • alucididea
    alucididea Posts: 113
    edited April 2018
    So, I was hoping to ask a question on this topic and didn’t see a reason to start another thread...

    A couple months ago a finally purchased a Furman Elite 15PF i & an NAD M22 for my Polk LSIM 707s that were previously matched with my RX-A3070. Now I’m ready to purchase some cables and wanted to ask a question or two...

    I’ve decided to go with the Pangea AC 9 MKII Signature power cable for the M22. But I was wondering whether it would behoove me to also purchase the same cable for the Furman power conditioner. I’m also considering getting another for the AVR as well. Should I even bother for the latter 2? Honestly I’m probabaly not going to bother with the AVR, but probabaly will for the Furman. Just thougt I’d consider some other points of view before I pull the trigger.

    Also upgrading my HDMI cable and interconnects, as well. Though those are self explanatory to me.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,221
    Same answer I gave in your other thread.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 11,102
    I feel like I've joined some elite group of people who have "seen the light" regarding the changes that an aftermarket power cable can bring! I'm a believer now!
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 21,004
    Oh you're in the group buddy trust me....
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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,488
    alucididea wrote: »
    So, I was hoping to ask a question on this topic and didn’t see a reason to start another thread...

    A couple months ago a finally purchased a Furman Elite 15PF i & an NAD M22 for my Polk LSIM 707s that were previously matched with my RX-A3070. Now I’m ready to purchase some cables and wanted to ask a question or two...

    I’ve decided to go with the Pangea AC 9 MKII Signature power cable for the M22. But I was wondering whether it would behoove me to also purchase the same cable for the Furman power conditioner. I’m also considering getting another for the AVR as well. Should I even bother for the latter 2? Honestly I’m probabaly not going to bother with the AVR, but probabaly will for the Furman. Just thougt I’d consider some other points of view before I pull the trigger.

    Also upgrading my HDMI cable and interconnects, as well. Though those are self explanatory to me.

    I think you might hate yourself for these heavy hard to control cables.
    I highly recommend Cullen cables as a better option.
    http://www.cullencable.com/
    you can discuss with Cullen which models are best for you.
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables by: Argento Organic Reference, Triode Wire Labs, Swiss Cables
    Wireworld Spaceport
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,255
    Clipdat wrote: »
    I feel like I've joined some elite group of people who have "seen the light" regarding the changes that an aftermarket power cable can bring! I'm a believer now!


    Good for you. This is just the start. Add in some decent power conditioning to go with power cords, and you are in a different game. Enjoy. :)
    Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,682
    I think the OP should upgrade his other cables first. I would normally go Speaker -interconnects=digital- then power cables.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • K_M
    K_M Posts: 1,612
    I have read many internet claims of positive results with better cords.
    On the other hand.....
    None of the claims are ever substantiated.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,385
    Clipdat wrote: »
    It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
    They don't make huge differences unless the factory cord is poorly constructed and picking up interference. This is where aftermarket power chords make bigger differences. EMI and RF interference sucks and can ruin your sound quality. Your amp could care less where the signal is coming from. if it comes in then it's in.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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