Do power cables make a difference?
Comments
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I can totally appreciate @tonyb 's post, and I get it (to a point). But it also shows that the work hasn't been done yet, an I mean work by there isn't an established correlation between cable sonic signature (or any component for that matter) and how it sounds. Blind testing with a sizeable test group to establish a commonality would be required, then breaking it all down to find that "thing" that establishes the difference.
I'll be ok with that up until it's time for me to make a purchase, then the objectivist in me is gonna have an issue. (My problem, not being imposed on anyone else). -
I can totally appreciate @tonyb 's post, and I get it (to a point). But it also shows that the work hasn't been done yet, an I mean work by there isn't an established correlation between cable sonic signature (or any component for that matter) and how it sounds. Blind testing with a sizeable test group to establish a commonality would be required, then breaking it all down to find that "thing" that establishes the difference.
I'll be ok with that up until it's time for me to make a purchase, then the objectivist in me is gonna have an issue. (My problem, not being imposed on anyone else).
Seriously doubt that it would work that way. Being that it's ONLY A LINK IN A CHAIN you have to consider upstream and downstream components. Not all will work the same with every cord and it's geometry and makeup. Too many variable, which is what we've been saying all along.
It's organic, more or less. -
^ Bingo ^Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
We were actually busy out in the actual world ("meatspace" as some would have it) today
but I wanted to say a word (ok many words!) about the Amp Camp Amp -- since the ACA got brought up in this thread (for whatever reason).
As many folks here may know, do the the extreme (nay, the outrageous) kindness and generosity of an anonymous forum member, there's a rather tricked-out ACA -- one which was laid out and reduced to practice by the forum's own @ALL212 -- on a long-term visitation at our house.
I've been listening to it exclusively for a week and a half or so, mostly on the Frankenaltecs (but also on some other highish-sensitivity loudspeakers). Nelson Pass designed the amp as an entry level exercise to teach (or at least to reveal) how simple a fine sounding amplifier can be, and how fine sounding a simple amplifier can be. The ACA breaks many of the de facto rules of modern solid state hifi design, being a single-ended solid state amplifier with very little (if any?) negative feedback. As such, it is inefficient (SE power amplifiers operate in Class A by definition), low powered (due to the simplicity and fairly low P/S voltage), and possesses fairly high output impedance (low "damping factor") and not particularly low distortion (of the harmonic kind, at least).
In fact, on paper it "measures" a lot like a single-ended 2A3 amplifier.
... and it has some of the there-ness and soul of an SE 2A3 amp. It even does a little better in terms of bass (extension and definition) than my SE 2A3 amps -- probably because I didn't spend an order of magnitude more on the output transformers equipping the latter! Where the 2A3 amp beats the ACA (edit: to my ears and taste) is in the richness and palpability of the midrange. The ACA ain't bad at all -- but the 2A3 just plain has soul in the midrange that the ACA doesn't quite get.
This being said, the ACA costs a fraction of a stereo 2A3 amplifier, and also costs a fraction of almost any (at least current production) solid state amplifier that would sound as good.
The trade-offs are profound (the choice of appropriate loudspeakers will be much more critical for success with the ACA than a typical ss amplifier), but the opportunity to learn is great.
Now, this has absolutely nothing to do with power cables (since the ACA is designed to run off of a laptop computer "brick" type power supply*) but either of the amplifiers mentioned above (ACA or SE 2A3) will quickly and emphatically reveal
how important everything else in the chain can be to the final, audible product.
_______________
* It would of course be possible, and maybe quite interesting, to design and implement an old-school linear power supply for the ACA.
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Why they do yes they do. Here is one the OP should try out himself.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/181548/shunyata-research-diamonback-powerecord-20a-c19-5-5ft-long#latest
Try it out and see what you think. If it is not up your alley you should be able to resell it pretty easily. I should get this and try it out at that price.Home Theater
Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable
2 Channel
Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+
Stuff for the Head
JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365
Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin
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@gudnoyez unfortunately my components are all C13. For sale is a C19. I was this -><- close to picking up an AQ power cable while at my local BB (for another Airport Express, AirPlay zone spdif to an MA5200) but then what do I upgrade to make the most difference? Preamp, Amp etc. Also they only had one left so I passed.
Currently streaming some Tidal
Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Marantz HD-CD1 | Denafrips Aries II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55” | Sony DVP-S500D
Office Music-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Office Music 3-2.0 Martin Logan Motion 40 | Martin Logan Forte
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570 | Rotel RB-1590
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | Martin Logan Forte
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Martin Logan Motion 50xt, Sony PS HX-500, Polk RT55, CS300, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500, AMC 2445 bridged
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine -
Of Course they do!
Everything Matters!
lord does even amp or speaker make a difference?j
Here is just my thoughts! As I have went thru many different ones starting with the Pangea's and Franks Signal cables one..now I have Voodoo cable & PS Audi and Douglas Connections power cable and a Audio art I got from Marvin that sounded to good to ever sell!
I trust what Marvin or Skip tell me to try and they have never failed me! so why have i never tried wireWorld or cullen? I never said I was the sharpest tool in the shed!2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
......not according to some forums.....
LOL
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
~ I have found excellence ~
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~
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Yes power cables make a difference! If I didn't upgrade all of my power cables I would have money for the Sub that I want. I do need to upgrade all of my Sub power cables though.
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but as so many others here have said so many times...
Try them for yourself and make your own opinions on the subject!
Don't trust me or any piece of paper...trust your own ears as that is all that matters in this game.
If you don't hear a difference then maybe you setup can't hear any difference or your ears... consider yourself lucky as your going to save a lot of $$$ and stay away from that hole
Enjoy your ride in the audio world! may it be a good one! Hope you find something special to listen to.
2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Do recording studios use upgraded power cables? I’m thinking maybe or not...Living Room Music-2.0 Polk Legend L800 | McIntosh C70 | McIntosh MA5200 (Treble) | McIntosh MC452 (Bass) | Sublimeacoustic K231 Active xover | Denon DP-2500A | Marantz HD-CD1 | Denafrips Aries II | Belkin Soundform Connect | iPad Air USB to DAC
Family Room Home Theater-7.2.2 (Atmos) Polk LSiM 707, 706c, Dual DSW microPRO 3000, LSiM 702 F/X [x4], RC65i | Marantz SR7009 | Marantz PM-10 [FL/FR] | Marantz SA-10 | Sony UBP-X800 4K | Xbox One S 4K | AppleTV 4K | HTPC | Sony 75” XBR X850D 4K
Office Home Theater-5.1 Polk LSi25, LSiC, LSiF/X | Onkyo TX-SR705 | AppleTV | Samsung 55” | Sony DVP-S500D
Office Music-2.0 QAcoustics 3030i | Sansui AU-6900 | Topping DX7s | Sansui FR-1080
Office Music 2-2.0 Klipsch RP-600M | Topping DX7s (BAL out) | PASS ACA (kit) Class A balanced monoblocks
Office Music 3-2.0 Martin Logan Motion 40 | Martin Logan Forte
Master Bedroom Music-2.0 Totem Hawk | Rotel RA-1570 | Rotel RB-1590
Patio Music-2.0 Polk Atrium8 | Martin Logan Forte
Airplay zones: Family Room (HDMI), Family Room SA-10 (optical), Master Bedroom (Optical), Office (HDMI), Office DX7s (optical), Living Room Ares (Optical), SR7009 (AVR direct) and Patio (analog). Apple Music multi-stream to any, combo or all.
Spares: Martin Logan Motion 50xt, Sony PS HX-500, Polk RT55, CS300, CS400, PSW450, f/x 500, AMC 2445 bridged
Maintenance: Pro-Ject VC-S Record Cleaning Machine -
Recording studios and the reproduction of music in a home are not the same. That said, some of best studios use high end cables including power cords from MIT or Shunyata.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
One of many professional use of Shunyata power cables and power conditioners.
"Located in the United Kingdom, Astoria Studio is widely recognized as one of the most respected recording studios in the world. Owned by David Gilmour of Pink Floyd, Astoria has served as recording venue to some of the most renowned recording artists in the music industry. Anyone familiar with the state-of-the-art production values on Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, The Wall, Momentary Lapse of Reason, The Division Bell, and David Gilmour in Concert 2002 DVD, can appreciate the meticulous nature with which the Pink Floyd albums are put together. Astoria Studio’s principles are renowned for reviewing every aspect of their recording chain continually. It was this perfectionist approach that led Astoria to seek out and implement Shunyata Research’s Hydra power distribution systems, PowerSnakes power cables and Aeros Series signal cables to their state-of-the-art recording equipment. Astoria’s principle engineers actively endorse Shunyata Research products to other studios and mastering engineers and have paved the way for may subsequent Shunyata studio applications."
http://shunyata.com/professionals-comment/Lumin X1 file player; Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Suh-weet.
My Venom 14s should be shipping this week! -
Just in general my experience
Silver core metal - cleaner edges of music, less hash
Larger gauge of power cable - more bass, warmth
Just my 2 centsJoey's Gear:
Current Gear:
Primary:
Digital: Torus RM15 -> Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x/TSDx
Analog: VPI Avenger Reference w/ Rim Drive w/ ADS + 12" Fatboy Dual Pivot + Lyra Etna
Pre/Amp/Speakers: Audio Research Ref40 -> Boulder 2060 (w/ AQ WEL Signature) -> ??? + JL F113v2 x2 + JL CR1
Secondary:
Rotel RA1592 -> SF Olympica 3
Tertiary:
Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570/RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2 -
ImpressiveMojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...Velodyne Optimum 8 subwoofer
1KVA Dreadnought
Marantz SA 8005
Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
Sony PS4
Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video
"All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER" -
So I found another site talking about cables and found that Jay Victor is member of the site.
I did a search on PS Audio and Pangea and found a member who thought they were the same cable due to PS Audio using Patents from Jay.
This was his response.
No, Pangea cables and PS Audio cables are definitely not the same. XLO is the best I can do. Pangea is the most cost effective, and yes, does not rely on different shape conductors. It is interesting how good they sound, because it proves the importance of the geometry itself, without relying on very exotic materials. PS Audio is a step up from Pangea, and does offer better performance, and does utilize my patented conductor shapes. Thanks to all for the enthusiastic response to Pangea. I am very happy to be able to offer something that offers so much performance for such a modest price. Correction: I do not own Pangea. I design and manufacture the cables. Pangea is owned by WS Distributing. Thanks for your support!!! - Jay Victor
Main room- RTiA9 x4, CSiA6, in ceiling Atmos RT-70 x4, SVS PC 4000 x2, Marantz 8805A, OPPO 203, Emotiva DR3 G3, Emotiva XPA-2 G3, Emotiva XPA-5 G3, Emotiva X300, Sony 75" 940E, Panasonic Plasma VT50, PS Audio Power Port X2, PS Audio AC-5 x8, AQ Rocket 33 Biwire speaker cables, AQ King Cobra XLR IC, Furman PFi20 W/Cullen cable, SoildSteel S4-4 rack, Gik room treatments
Office- Legend L600, in ceiling Polk RC80i, Marantz 7704, OPPO 203, Pioneer Elite PDF-59 CD, PSA Stellar 300, Sony 55" 800B, Gik room treatment
Master BR- Signature ES60, Signature S35 Center, Signature S15 Dolby Height, LSI700 in ceiling, SVS-SB4000, Marantz 5012, Emotiva XPA5 G2, OPPO 203, Pioneer DVL-919 Laser Disc, Sony 55" OLED
Patio- SDI Atrium8 x3, Emotiva A-100 amps x3 -
I've been through power cords of all kinds of levels and I've noticed very little differences in overall performance. Cost vs performance gains in my opinion might not be worth the retail price. If you can get them used or a good discount then the value goes up.
I use all custom power cords in my system for 2 reasons. 1 I like the small benefit in overall performance and lower noise floor and 2 I really like having correct length so I don't have a power cord mess behind my rack I gotta deal with. I upgrade and test gear all the time so having shorter power cords is golden.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I just put the Shunyata Venom 14 in place of the stock Marantz CD6004 cable. Listening now.
First thing I notice is that the stereo image/effect is noticeably better. I can actually move around now and hear the stereo image shifting/moving as I move in and out of it.
I've always thought that my system's stereo imaging was its weak point. The difference in imaging with this power cable on the CDP is NOT subtle. Wow. -
It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
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It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
And you haven't spent a fortune on a power cable yet. Imagine a 500.00 one. I'm reading more and more confirmations on what a good power cable can do.
Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them. -
So, I was hoping to ask a question on this topic and didn’t see a reason to start another thread...
A couple months ago a finally purchased a Furman Elite 15PF i & an NAD M22 for my Polk LSIM 707s that were previously matched with my RX-A3070. Now I’m ready to purchase some cables and wanted to ask a question or two...
I’ve decided to go with the Pangea AC 9 MKII Signature power cable for the M22. But I was wondering whether it would behoove me to also purchase the same cable for the Furman power conditioner. I’m also considering getting another for the AVR as well. Should I even bother for the latter 2? Honestly I’m probabaly not going to bother with the AVR, but probabaly will for the Furman. Just thougt I’d consider some other points of view before I pull the trigger.
Also upgrading my HDMI cable and interconnects, as well. Though those are self explanatory to me. -
Same answer I gave in your other thread.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I feel like I've joined some elite group of people who have "seen the light" regarding the changes that an aftermarket power cable can bring! I'm a believer now!
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Oh you're in the group buddy trust me....
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alucididea wrote: »So, I was hoping to ask a question on this topic and didn’t see a reason to start another thread...
A couple months ago a finally purchased a Furman Elite 15PF i & an NAD M22 for my Polk LSIM 707s that were previously matched with my RX-A3070. Now I’m ready to purchase some cables and wanted to ask a question or two...
I’ve decided to go with the Pangea AC 9 MKII Signature power cable for the M22. But I was wondering whether it would behoove me to also purchase the same cable for the Furman power conditioner. I’m also considering getting another for the AVR as well. Should I even bother for the latter 2? Honestly I’m probabaly not going to bother with the AVR, but probabaly will for the Furman. Just thougt I’d consider some other points of view before I pull the trigger.
Also upgrading my HDMI cable and interconnects, as well. Though those are self explanatory to me.
I think you might hate yourself for these heavy hard to control cables.
I highly recommend Cullen cables as a better option.
http://www.cullencable.com/
you can discuss with Cullen which models are best for you.Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
Power Cables by: Argento Organic Reference, Cullen cables Triode Wire Labs, Swiss Cables -
I feel like I've joined some elite group of people who have "seen the light" regarding the changes that an aftermarket power cable can bring! I'm a believer now!
Good for you. This is just the start. Add in some decent power conditioning to go with power cords, and you are in a different game. Enjoy.
Lumin X1 file player; Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
I think the OP should upgrade his other cables first. I would normally go Speaker -interconnects=digital- then power cables.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
I have read many internet claims of positive results with better cords.
On the other hand.....
None of the claims are ever substantiated.Lsi15, Lsi9, LsiC,Rta11t,M5jr+,M4, SDA SRS 2.3TL, Rti6....Still listing stuff, a work in progress.
B+W-Sold
Electro Voice EV-SIX
Infinity-Sold
Advent-Now gone
Yamaha A-S801
Yamaha RX-V377
Yamaha RX-A860
Yamaha RX-A3060
Harman Kardon Hk-350i
Harman Kardon Hk-........
Harman Kardon PM-665
Harman Kardon HK-775
Pioneer.......Stereo Receiver -
They don't make huge differences unless the factory cord is poorly constructed and picking up interference. This is where aftermarket power chords make bigger differences. EMI and RF interference sucks and can ruin your sound quality. Your amp could care less where the signal is coming from. if it comes in then it's in.It doesn't make any logical sense in my mind in regards to how a power cable could make this much of an improvement in stereo imaging. But wow. Crazy.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
