Warm up time or is it my ears?
Comments
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What was in that sausage thread anyway?
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Sausage, and lots of it.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
I should have read it
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So if I understand what you wrote, you basically did these tests to determine if there was any sonic differences in cables, specifically digital cables. Yes? And in doing these tests, you used several pieces of gear over a fairly lengthy period of time.
But one more ? for you, do you have the test results? Other than the "no difference was heard", you kept score and all, so there must be some stats you collected.
At any rate, thanks for replying; I honestly was not expecting one.So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
So if I understand what you wrote, you basically did these tests to determine if there was any sonic differences in cables, specifically digital cables. Yes? And in doing these tests, you used several pieces of gear over a fairly lengthy period of time.
No we did the tests in one day on the same equipment.But one more ? for you, do you have the test results? Other than the "no difference was heard", you kept score and all, so there must be some stats you collected.
No we didn't keep the scores. Our purpose wasn't to do tests for anyone other than ourselves.At any rate, thanks for replying; I honestly was not expecting one.
Any time. I have no problem answering question. But I have stopped responding to the insults I get from others. -
But it isn't insulting of you to discount quite literally everyone elses testing and experiences?
You say I haven't done any testing of my own and if I had, I would think like you...which seems rather conceited and decidedly arrogant really.
Because it assumes things of me of which you know nothing about. You don't know me. You don't know what equipment I own. You don't know the methods by which I evaluated and chose the gear I do own. You don't know how I compared equipment that was swapped out of my systems. You make a grand amount of assumptions based on little more than I have hurt your precious little ego and brittle little feelings by questioning your very weak postulations.
You keep throwing around the term "bias controlled". Which means that my testing isn't valid unless I close my eyes and have someone else controlling the test to you.
It isn't that anyone is being insulting (ok...I am really) but that you have taken this posture that your views and methods are right and scientifically infallible. But someone else with two PhDs directly related to the fields being discussed has pointed out the flaws in your methodology and you continue to discount them as wrong.
Sorry, but I am going to go with the research of someone who consistently posts his results here and outlines his testing methodology completely over some internet crusader who is out to save us from ourselves because our views don't mesh with yours.
You will continue to be ignored or ridiculed until you post actual results and testing methodology. And having x ask you to come back so he has at least one ally is pathetic really."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
But it isn't insulting of you to discount quite literally everyone elses testing and experiences?
I don't think so. You, me and everyone else experiences hearing bias. All I am doing is explaining that some audible differences are in the bias and not the equipment. It is the truth.You say I haven't done any testing of my own and if I had, I would think like you...which seems rather conceited and decidedly arrogant really.
No, I said you haven't done any bias controlled comparisons.Because it assumes things of me of which you know nothing about. You don't know me. You don't know what equipment I own. You don't know the methods by which I evaluated and chose the gear I do own. You don't know how I compared equipment that was swapped out of my systems. You make a grand amount of assumptions based on little more than I have hurt your precious little ego and brittle little feelings by questioning your very weak postulations.
You keep throwing around the term "bias controlled". Which means that my testing isn't valid unless I close my eyes and have someone else controlling the test to you.
I know how you evaluate audio equipment by what you write. Your testing is not valid for determining whether an audible difference is biased or actual. Some are biased, some are not. Your method can't possibly sort that out. You don't want to sort it out so it isn't an issue for you. But it is for me. If the bias works for you, then that's great. It doesn't work for me.It isn't that anyone is being insulting (ok...I am really) but that you have taken this posture that your views and methods are right and scientifically infallible. But someone else with two PhDs directly related to the fields being discussed has pointed out the flaws in your methodology and you continue to discount them as wrong.
If the person with two PhD's has engaged in bias controlled comparisons I'd be very interested in his opinions. If he hasn't then all I can say is what I said above. All humans experience hearing bias. Academic degrees don't change that.Sorry, but I am going to go with the research of someone who consistently posts his results here and outlines his testing methodology completely over some internet crusader who is out to save us from ourselves because our views don't mesh with yours.
By all means. Actually I'm not trying to convert you to anything. I write for newcomers to the hobby that I think would benefit from the information.You will continue to be ignored or ridiculed until you post actual results and testing methodology. And having x ask you to come back so he has at least one ally is pathetic really.
I'll be ready for it.But it isn't insulting of you to discount quite literally everyone elses testing and experiences?
You say I haven't done any testing of my own and if I had, I would think like you...which seems rather conceited and decidedly arrogant really.
Because it assumes things of me of which you know nothing about. You don't know me. You don't know what equipment I own. You don't know the methods by which I evaluated and chose the gear I do own. You don't know how I compared equipment that was swapped out of my systems. You make a grand amount of assumptions based on little more than I have hurt your precious little ego and brittle little feelings by questioning your very weak postulations.
You keep throwing around the term "bias controlled". Which means that my testing isn't valid unless I close my eyes and have someone else controlling the test to you.
It isn't that anyone is being insulting (ok...I am really) but that you have taken this posture that your views and methods are right and scientifically infallible. But someone else with two PhDs directly related to the fields being discussed has pointed out the flaws in your methodology and you continue to discount them as wrong.
Sorry, but I am going to go with the research of someone who consistently posts his results here and outlines his testing methodology completely over some internet crusader who is out to save us from ourselves because our views don't mesh with yours.
You will continue to be ignored or ridiculed until you post actual results and testing methodology. And having x ask you to come back so he has at least one ally is pathetic really.
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What information? So far you has posted squat. Saying you did tests in the past means nothing. Provide the links to this research so the newcomers can evaluate the tests, and determine if they are valid, or just junk tests by wannabe psuedo-engineers.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
It is a fairly long story but I will simplify. I was on a forum years ago and read a discussion about the audibility of digital cables. I couldn't think of a law of physics that could explain how a cable transmitting digitally encoded audio could have a sound since it doesn't become sound again until after conversion. So I visited my friend the audio dealer and borrowed some digital cables. I did some bias controlled comparisons with my wife assisting and confirmed that there was no reason for anyone to believe that a digital interconnect cable could have a sonic signature.
One thing led to another. 10 men from our local audiophile group decided to do all kinds of bias controlled tests and so we did so over the next 2 years.
We used two venues for the tests. One was the dealer's showroom and the other was in my home. The speakers were B&W Matrix 801 at the dealer and B&W Matrix 802 at my home. At the dealer's location we used several amps and preamps and CD players. At my home those products were all made by Audio Research - the dealer's top product line.So if I understand what you wrote, you basically did these tests to determine if there was any sonic differences in cables, specifically digital cables. Yes? And in doing these tests, you used several pieces of gear over a fairly lengthy period of time.
No we did the tests in one day on the same equipment.
Now I'm really confused; first, the tests were conducted over two years, using all kinds of biased controlled tests. You also state you used your equipment, as well as a dealer's, using several amps, preamps, CD players, etc.
Then you reply that the tests were done in one day on the same equipment.
I am not being a martinet here, I really don't know if we are referring to the same things, just hoping you'd clarify.So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
What information? So far you has posted squat. Saying you did tests in the past means nothing. Provide the links to this research so the newcomers can evaluate the tests, and determine if they are valid, or just junk tests by wannabe psuedo-engineers.
Feel free to consider what I say as junk by wannabe pseudo-engineers. I don't care a whit.
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It is a fairly long story but I will simplify. I was on a forum years ago and read a discussion about the audibility of digital cables. I couldn't think of a law of physics that could explain how a cable transmitting digitally encoded audio could have a sound since it doesn't become sound again until after conversion. So I visited my friend the audio dealer and borrowed some digital cables. I did some bias controlled comparisons with my wife assisting and confirmed that there was no reason for anyone to believe that a digital interconnect cable could have a sonic signature.
One thing led to another. 10 men from our local audiophile group decided to do all kinds of bias controlled tests and so we did so over the next 2 years.
We used two venues for the tests. One was the dealer's showroom and the other was in my home. The speakers were B&W Matrix 801 at the dealer and B&W Matrix 802 at my home. At the dealer's location we used several amps and preamps and CD players. At my home those products were all made by Audio Research - the dealer's top product line.So if I understand what you wrote, you basically did these tests to determine if there was any sonic differences in cables, specifically digital cables. Yes? And in doing these tests, you used several pieces of gear over a fairly lengthy period of time.
No we did the tests in one day on the same equipment.
Now I'm really confused; first, the tests were conducted over two years, using all kinds of biased controlled tests. You also state you used your equipment, as well as a dealer's, using several amps, preamps, CD players, etc.
Then you reply that the tests were done in one day on the same equipment.
I am not being a martinet here, I really don't know if we are referring to the same things, just hoping you'd clarify.
I'm sorry. I thought you were referring to the first digital cable comparison. Yes, we did do many comparisons over a two year period at two different venues. However, each test was done on a single day at a single venue. In other words, if we were testing interconnect cables, all of them were tested the same day at the same place. -
You must give a "whit" since you are spreading your opinion all over the place. If you didn't care, you'd make your opinion statement and move on. But you are hell bent on telling everyone that doesn't believe your opinion they are wrong.
Time to move along as you've made your views and opinions known. See, it's getting to a point where you are beating a dead horse and becoming annoying. People that truly don't give a "whit" don't act like you are acting.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
...and in the time span of 10 seconds. LOLPolitical Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Without facts to back up your "testing" all you are doing is the same thing everyone else is doing here...expressing an opinion. And your opinion is not any more or less valid than anyone elses without fact to back it up. It is an opinion and you have expressed it.
Why do you internet crusaders find it necessary to save people from themselves? You are no better than the rabid televangelists trying to save people from eternal damnation. Give it up. I won't change your mind, you won't change anybody's mind here so move along to somewhere else where your intolerant opinions are tolerated.
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
You must give a "whit" since you are spreading your opinion all over the place. If you didn't care, you'd make your opinion statement and move on. But you are hell bent on telling everyone that doesn't believe your opinion they are wrong.
Time to move along as you've made your views and opinions known. See, it's getting to a point where you are beating a dead horse and becoming annoying. People that truly don't give a "whit" don't act like you are acting.
H9
You misunderstand. I don't give a whit about an audiophile's opinion of sound quality. I do give a whit about providing information that I think might be useful to newcomers. The audio industry is a cesspool of misinformation.
Are you somehow afraid of what I write? Since you want to silence me, why not ask the site owner to ask me to leave. I will do so if the site owner doesn't want me to post here. But I won't do it for you. -
I tried to listen to 10 second snippets of different music last night. Most frustrating and annoying session I've ever had. Talk about an ineffective method of music evaluation.
Let's just read the first sentence of each chapter of a book and then make a review about it. That's what the 10 second evaluation seems like.
Completely ineffective and ridiculous as it has no basis in how one realistically listens to and enjoys music.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
You misunderstand. I don't give a whit about an audiophile's opinion of sound quality. I do give a whit about providing information that I think might be useful to newcomers. The audio industry is a cesspool of misinformation.
Are you somehow afraid of what I write? Since you want to silence me, why not ask the site owner to ask me to leave. I will do so if the site owner doesn't want me to post here. But I won't do it for you.
Kids, this is what is known as an "opinion". His is no more or less valid than anyone elses. So do you take the opinion of a single troll out to show his intolerance of views that differ from his or do you take the opinion of a majority who advise you to let your own ears decide for you?
Me, I will always take the advice of someone that suggests I do my own research and discover for myself because I, unlike this worthless troll, realize that everyone hearing and brains work differently and am not naive enough to think I know better than everyone else like this guy does.
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
Without facts to back up your "testing" all you are doing is the same thing everyone else is doing here...expressing an opinion. And your opinion is not any more or less valid than anyone elses without fact to back it up. It is an opinion and you have expressed it.
I accept that. So why all the passion aimed at silencing me? If you don't like the opinion you can ignore it. Opinions don't hurt do they?Why do you internet crusaders find it necessary to save people from themselves? You are no better than the rabid televangelists trying to save people from eternal damnation. Give it up. I won't change your mind, you won't change anybody's mind here so move along to somewhere else where your intolerant opinions are tolerated.
I'm not willing to be silenced by you either. Have the site owner talk to me. As to your insults, I choose not to respond.
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You must give a "whit" since you are spreading your opinion all over the place. If you didn't care, you'd make your opinion statement and move on. But you are hell bent on telling everyone that doesn't believe your opinion they are wrong.
Time to move along as you've made your views and opinions known. See, it's getting to a point where you are beating a dead horse and becoming annoying. People that truly don't give a "whit" don't act like you are acting.
H9
You misunderstand. I don't give a whit about an audiophile's opinion of sound quality. I do give a whit about providing information that I think might be useful to newcomers. The audio industry is a cesspool of misinformation.
Are you somehow afraid of what I write? Since you want to silence me, why not ask the site owner to ask me to leave. I will do so if the site owner doesn't want me to post here. But I won't do it for you.
Not trying to silence anyone, just stating an observation that you are rather singularly focused on a very narrow subject and really beating it to death. Are you that one dimensional and only here to troll about it? Or are you here to also become a part of the community and discuss other things related to audio.
We get your POV, I'm simply saying to move on or it makes you look like a bitter troll.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
And yet you just did.
As for your opinion, it isn't the opinion I am trying to silence but the fact that you have this insatiable desire to ram your opinion down everyone else's throat instead of stating it and moving along. Instead you keep regurgitating that your "bias controlled" testing is the only valid method of testing. And yet you can't post a single valid result to prove your opinions that you insist are better than everyone elses.
"Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
I'm not willing to be silenced by you either. Have the site owner talk to me.
I believe that a mod has already contacted you once
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
is a top fuel dragster gonna use factory spark plug wires ? o My
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You must give a "whit" since you are spreading your opinion all over the place. If you didn't care, you'd make your opinion statement and move on. But you are hell bent on telling everyone that doesn't believe your opinion they are wrong.
It's called being a bully.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
And yet you just did.
As for your opinion, it isn't the opinion I am trying to silence but the fact that you have this insatiable desire to ram your opinion down everyone else's throat instead of stating it and moving along. Instead you keep regurgitating that your "bias controlled" testing is the only valid method of testing. And yet you can't post a single valid result to prove your opinions that you insist are better than everyone elses.
I got it. I understand that you disagree. Why not let it go? I'm just responding to people who post attacks. Stop attacking, I'll stop posting mhy responses. -
EndersShadow wrote: »
Sorry I must have missed it. -
Why don't you just ignore and move on to another subject? Except I sense you have a singular purpose here and that is to troll about bias testing. Do you have anything else to offer or are you JUST here to indoctrinate all of us on this singular subject?
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I see it exactly the opposite way. I make a post innocently. I am then deluged by bullies like you insulting me and I respond to the posts the best I can. It is fine to disagree with me and post the reasons for your disagreement. it is ridiculous and childish to behave the way you and others have behaved. The only reason I am still here is the bullying leveled at me. I don't stand down to bullies. -
Yeah, right "innocently making a post". You came here with an agenda and you are getting push back and now playing the victim.
Typical internet troll behavior.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
fmw
I sent you a PM yesterday, did you receive it?
Ken -
KennethSwauger wrote: »fmw
I sent you a PM yesterday, did you receive it?
Ken
I didn't know I had but I looked for the PM control and found your post. You misunderstood what I said about being asked to return. That was an email from a forum member asking me to stay after I had decided to quit. Nobody sent me here in the first place.
My agenda, simple as it is, is to provide alternative information for newcomers to audio. If you look at my posts objectively you will see that I posted and was immediately beset by rudeness and insults. I responded to those posts the best I could and succeeding posts which were rude and insulting for the most part as well.
I have responded to almost all the posts made to me or about me. All the responses have done is generate a whole new slew of posts. Obviously the audiophile group doesn't care for my opinion any more than I care about theirs. But I do offer an alternative for those who have not decided to embark on the subjective audiophile journey. I followed that journey myself for over 40 years. Oddly enough I have a whole lot of experience in home audio and some experiences that none of the posters here have.
If you want me to leave, just say so and I will leave. I haven't left at the request of the bullies because I don't stand down to bullies. Tell me to go away and I will.
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