Warm up time or is it my ears?

afterburnt

These 707s have certainly opened up with some time one them but it sure seem like I don't like what I hear from them for almost the first hour of letting them play. what the hell is wrong with me? Wait that is another conversation lol. Should stuff take that long to warm up???

mikeyb128

I honestly feel that both my systems don't start sounding there best for about 2 hours. The longer they are on, the better they sound. I have 705's in my main system. Bought in April of this year, they keep sounding better and better, I haven't done anything special to break them in, just using them, not leaving them on all day for the dogs. Been thinking about running them for a week straight to see what happens.

nooshinjohn

My amps need at least an hour of idle time before I sit in the sweet spot

afterburnt

Funny I run my gear for the dog too lol. Anyway the last memory of the sound kinda blows compared to the first memory of the last listening session. I am becoming too much of a curmudgeon about my own stuff lol.

afterburnt

nooshinjohn wrote: »

My amps need at least an hour of idle time before I sit in the sweet spot

I guess it makes sense since I have been running Playschool gear to start out. this is too much fun and too damned expensive, but what the hell I am enjoying it lol

F1nut

afterburnt wrote: »

These 707s have certainly opened up with some time one them but it sure seem like I don't like what I hear from them for almost the first hour of letting them play. what the hell is wrong with me? Wait that is another conversation lol. Should stuff take that long to warm up???

I get the impression you power up your gear just before listening, so try this instead. Leave all the gear powered up while you are at work, sleeping or whatever you do when not listening. That way when you are ready for the next listening session you should be able to tell if it is gear warm up time or your ears.

nooshinjohn

I agree with Jesse, but if you are running tube amps, it may not be practical to do that. I could watch my power meter roll if I left my amps on all the time.

afterburnt

No tubes here. I turned everthing on when I got up this morning then reflexively turn them off as I walked out the door duh lol

fmw

F1nut wrote: »

afterburnt wrote: »

These 707s have certainly opened up with some time one them but it sure seem like I don't like what I hear from them for almost the first hour of letting them play. what the hell is wrong with me? Wait that is another conversation lol. Should stuff take that long to warm up???

I get the impression you power up your gear just before listening, so try this instead. Leave all the gear powered up while you are at work, sleeping or whatever you do when not listening. That way when you are ready for the next listening session you should be able to tell if it is gear warm up time or your ears.

You could tell if you compared two identical systems side by side. But it isn't possible to remember sonic characteristics through a work day. Hearing bias, on the other hand, can convince you that hear nearly anything.

F1nut

fmw wrote: »

You could tell if you compared two identical systems side by side. But it isn't possible to remember sonic characteristics through a work day. Hearing bias, on the other hand, can convince you that hear nearly anything.

If you truly believe that I suggest you get rid of whatever audio system you have. I mean, it's obvious you can't be sure of what you're hearing, so why bother.

fmw

Sorry but I know exactly what I can and cannot hear. I spent two years doing bias controlled comparisons. Since you don't know what I can and can't hear a better comment would be that you disagree with me. That would make sense since you have never done a bias controlled comparison.

F1nut

Sorry but I know exactly what I can and cannot hear.

Ummmm....you just told us that you can't trust YOUR ears. Hello!

Since you don't know what I can and can't hear

Yet, you're going to tell the collective what they can or can't hear? LMAO!!!

fmw

F1nut wrote: »

Sorry but I know exactly what I can and cannot hear.

Ummmm....you just told us that you can't trust YOUR ears. Hello!

Since you don't know what I can and can't hear

Yet, you're going to tell the collective what they can or can't hear? LMAO!!!

Not at all. I am simply explaining why you hear what you year. Just say you don't disagree. Attacking me won't change the truth.

F1nut

Your truth is not my truth, so don't try to push your thoughts on the matter on me or others.

BTW, I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out the problems with your blanket statements.

BlueFox

fmw wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

afterburnt wrote: »

These 707s have certainly opened up with some time one them but it sure seem like I don't like what I hear from them for almost the first hour of letting them play. what the hell is wrong with me? Wait that is another conversation lol. Should stuff take that long to warm up???

I get the impression you power up your gear just before listening, so try this instead. Leave all the gear powered up while you are at work, sleeping or whatever you do when not listening. That way when you are ready for the next listening session you should be able to tell if it is gear warm up time or your ears.

You could tell if you compared two identical systems side by side. But it isn't possible to remember sonic characteristics through a work day. Hearing bias, on the other hand, can convince you that hear nearly anything.

Great, another troll throwing out opinion as fact, and knows more than anyone else.

tonyb

fmw wrote: »

[it isn't possible to remember sonic characteristics through a work day. .

Maybe if you have Alzheimer's, because I can remember sonic characteristics of pieces I've heard from years ago. My house/car keys is another matter.

ZLTFUL

Don't waste your time guys...he is indeed either another iteration of Habanero Monk or Jinjuku or simply one of their sad little clique out to prove that everyone but him is wrong.

We are all very familiar with this thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/153-cd-players-dedicated-music-transports/1531056-differences-sq-ethernet-cable-challenge-4.html#post34384474

But you know the funny part, when I gave Monk a date and time to show up, he kept cancelling and making excuses...too afraid to put up or shut up.

Let me guess, @fmw ...the only way to properly eliminate hearing/expectation/crack smoking bias is with double blind testing?

I can't believe this forum continually lets worthless trolls like this fester without popping them like the zits that they are.

ZLTFUL

Interesting, after digging a bit more seems jinjuku, monk and fmw follow each other around AVS stroking each other's..."egos".

fmw

Rudeness and insults are the methodology here, it appears. Very sad. Anybody up for a bet?

tonyb

Sure, I'm a gambling man, whats the bet ?

fmw

The bet. We set up two identical systems. We test them with a bias controlled comparison to ensure they sound the same. We allow one to warm up all day and the other one for 10 minutes. Then we repeat the bias controlled test. If you can identify a difference, you get $5000. If you can't, I get $5000.

I have never tested this concept before so I am applying common sense to the issue. I did do a bias controlled test of speaker "break-in" once. We compare a pair B&W Matrix 801 speakers a dealer had had on demo for about three months to a brand new pair he unboxed to deliver to a customer. None of the 5 testers was able to distinguish between the two pairs.

I'm betting $5000 warm up of electronic audio gear will go the same way. Do you know where we can find two identical systems in the same room that can be switched to play through the same speakers?

polrbehr

Only if the test is carried out with Ethernet cables... paging @ZLTFUL

ZLTFUL

fmw wrote: »

Rudeness and insults are the methodology here, it appears. Very sad. Anybody up for a bet?

Merely stating a fact. It was not meant to be rude or insulting in any way. No need to get defensive if you have chosen to cast your lot in with a known schizophrenic sociopath. (jinjuku and habanero are quite literally the same person...and he has conversations with himself/agreeing with himself. If that isn't a sign of severe mental illness then cables don't matter).

tonyb

fmw wrote: »

The bet. We set up two identical systems. We test them with a bias controlled comparison to ensure they sound the same. We allow one to warm up all day and the other one for 10 minutes. Then we repeat the bias controlled test. If you can identify a difference, you get $5000. If you can't, I get $5000.

I have never tested this concept before so I am applying common sense to the issue. I did do a bias controlled test of speaker "break-in" once. We compare a pair B&W Matrix 801 speakers a dealer had had on demo for about three months to a brand new pair he unboxed to deliver to a customer. None of the 5 testers was able to distinguish between the two pairs.

I'm betting $5000 warm up of electronic audio gear will go the same way. Do you know where we can find two identical systems in the same room that can be switched to play through the same speakers?

I'm betting you can't get 2 separate systems in the same room with the same placement in that room on the exact same gear and cables.

BTW....who were these 5 testers ? Did they even know what they were listening for, or were they just friends with a passive interest ?

Your premise is that nobody should be able to hear a difference because to you they don't exist. Because they don't exist to you, then they don't exist to anyone else. Sound logical to you ? If that's how you approach audio in general, your going to be stuck in the mud where your at.

fmw

ZLTFUL wrote: »

fmw wrote: »

Rudeness and insults are the methodology here, it appears. Very sad. Anybody up for a bet?

Merely stating a fact. It was not meant to be rude or insulting in any way. No need to get defensive if you have chosen to cast your lot in with a known schizophrenic sociopath. (jinjuku and habanero are quite literally the same person...and he has conversations with himself/agreeing with himself. If that isn't a sign of severe mental illness then cables don't matter).

Apparently you don't have the ability to detect rudeness and insults. You did it again. In a back handed way you referred to me as schizophrenic sociopath. I don't know these people but I can assure you haven't cast my lot with anyone, let alone schizophrenic sociopath. I'm not a member of your faithful so attack away. It doesn't really matter to me and it makes you look bad.

BlueFox

I will take the bet. Duplicate the gear in my sig and we will set it up on the wall opposite my current setup. Then using my office chair I can be spun around to face one setup or the other. Of course you will have to pay for the gear, and the three additional 20 amp lines required. At least you will have a nice stereo at the end of the test, but be $5000 poorer. I get to keep the additional 20 amps lines.

My setup sounds much better after being on 48 hours compared to just being turned on.

polrbehr

fmw wrote: »

ZLTFUL wrote: »

fmw wrote: »

Rudeness and insults are the methodology here, it appears. Very sad. Anybody up for a bet?

Merely stating a fact. It was not meant to be rude or insulting in any way. No need to get defensive if you have chosen to cast your lot in with a known schizophrenic sociopath. (jinjuku and habanero are quite literally the same person...and he has conversations with himself/agreeing with himself. If that isn't a sign of severe mental illness then cables don't matter).

Apparently you don't have the ability to detect rudeness and insults. You did it again. In a back handed way you referred to me as schizophrenic sociopath. I don't know these people but I can assure you haven't cast my lot with anyone, let alone schizophrenic sociopath. I'm not a member of your faithful so attack away. It doesn't really matter to me and it makes you look bad.

There is no faithful here. Other than a (reasonable?) expectation for people to discover on their own whether there are differences, subtle or not, in what they hear with their own ears in their own audio systems. With different pieces of gear, speaker placement, and on and on it goes; not something you read somewhere or heard about.

It's just a hobby, it's supposed to be enjoyable, and finding out things you didn't know existed is part of that enjoyment.

F1nut

fmw wrote: »

The bet.

Typical naysayer BS. Throw out a challenge that you know isn't going to happen for any number of reasons and then say, but nobody took my bet. It's a pathetic desperation move on your part.

Rude and insulting? Yes indeed, all of your posts have been, so stop trying to spin it around. You're not that good, not even close.

ZLTFUL

fmw wrote: »

Apparently you don't have the ability to detect rudeness and insults. You did it again. In a back handed way you referred to me as schizophrenic sociopath. I don't know these people but I can assure you haven't cast my lot with anyone, let alone schizophrenic sociopath. I'm not a member of your faithful so attack away. It doesn't really matter to me and it makes you look bad.

And apparently, you lack reading comprehension...a basic skill taught in any elementary school (how's that for a back-handed insult, cupcake?).
I did not say that you were a schizophrenic sociopath (beginning to have my doubts on the sociopath front though) but that you have cast your lot with one (or do they refer to themselves in multiples?).

You have laid out that because you or 5 of your passively interested friends can't discern a difference that there isn't one.

We have been round and round with this limited way of thinking around here so we take a very intolerant view of it.
You are postulating that every ear works the same. Every brain processes what the ear hears the same and that for all intents and purposes, every one hears identically to you. Sounds awful conceited, doesn't it?

I will now reference a post I made some time back...you would do well to read it and ask yourself those same questions I posed.

In light of the recent trolling vitriol and inane babbling of a small, miniscule really, group of members (I won't honor them with the tag of Polkie because its meaning is wasted on them), I want to discuss the senses.

Now, I believe that everyone experiences those 5 senses differently. Our brains, while similar in composition, are wired differently from one person to the next. So lets break down what I mean by delving into each of the senses.

Smell
To me, the smell of a swamp, smells pleasant. It has an earthiness to it I enjoy. Same goes for decomposing loam and compost. It smells to me of life perpetuating itself. The living feeding off of the dead.
Others though, may think that those smells are unpleasant. My youngest daughter claims to enjoy the smell of her farts. Disgusting, to be sure but because I accept that others smell differently than I do, I accept that it *could* be possible that she does.
In fact, some people love the smell of pine forests but loathe the scent of roses or lilies. Or they think that the desert smells warm and welcoming but a mountain meadow after a rain storm smells cold and harsh.
But that is the wonderful thing about the sense of smell. We all perceive it differently.

Touch
Here we have one of the most unassuming of our senses. Usually when we refer to feeling, it is in reference to an emotion and not to the physical act of touching something.
But this sense is yet another example of how one person can *feel* things differently than another.
My wife has a blanket that she has had for decades. It has a corduroy border that I find to be rough and unpleasant. But she runs that border between her fingers when she is stressed out because she finds the feeling relaxing. I have a hand woven Indian blanket that my wife and daughter both hate. They state that it isn't a comfortable blanket. I on the other hand like the "rough hewn" texture of the materials.
Heck, even my dog will eschew the soft fluffy bed for the rough woolen bed that he can scratch his nose in.
My point is, everyone experiences textures differently. One person may enjoy the feeling of gritty sand on their skin from the beach while someone else likes the exhilaration they get from jumping into an ice cold pool of water.
But that is the wonderful thing about the sense of touch. We all perceive it differently.

Taste
This sense is easy. My wife loves the taste of lemons with salt on them. I think that is disgusting. She enjoys the taste of really spicy biryani while she does not like the taste of spicy chicken wings or salsa. I am the opposite. I do not enjoy the spices and flavors in biryani but I can eat ghost chile sauce wings all day. If everyone tasted things the same way, then restaurants wouldn't need to have multiple options. Everyone would take the chicken sandwich because everything tastes like chicken. But we don't. Our taste buds, again, while similar in make up, vary greatly from person to person. I don't enjoy sour flavors. My wife loves them. I enjoy the peaty earthiness of Islay Scotches while my wife prefers the flavor of Anejo Tequilas.
We all experience various flavors differently. Nobody ever gets chastised because they like different flavors than someone else.

Sight
Aesthetics for this sense are quite literally everything. How something looks is important to us. But lets face it, when it comes to this sense, yet again, we are all different. I prefer redheads. Some guys prefer blondes while others prefer brunettes. Some folks look at a Frank Lloyd Wright design and see nothing more than too many straight lines and 90* angles. I see an amazing architectural display. Some people enjoy the sight of a plant in their office while others prefer a view of a city skyline.
Sight is a very powerful sense in that what we see can induce a vast array of emotions. See a child getting hurt and you immediately experience concern, anger, sadness. Watching kittens play will induce amusement and happiness.
Walk into any art museum on the planet and you can rest assured that you won't enjoy seeing everything in there. All because what we perceive is good or bad visually varies drastically from one person to the next. Nobody is derided because they find something aesthetically pleasing when the next person doesn't.

Hearing
And last, but most certainly not least, hearing. Quite assuredly the most divisive of the senses when it comes to this forum.
Some people enjoy listening to jazz while others will enjoy Norse Death Metal. Nobody ever questions the music one enjoys. It is an individual preference.
So why is it, when someone says that they hear something differently than someone else, the naysayers burst into flames and immediately jump on some religious crusade to convince everyone that the other person is wrong and there is no way that the other can hear something that they can't?
Why is this sense suddenly different than all of our other senses?
Everyone's ears are different. Sure, they contain the same basic components but ears are a very individualistic body part. Difference in just the shape of the ear alone can have drastic effects on the way someone perceives sound. As an eardrum ages, it effects how we hear.
But why, then is it so taboo to some people when you claim that you can hear something that they can't?
My wife and I will listen to a song sitting side by side. I can ask her if she heard a finger drag a string at a certain point in the guitar solo or if she heard the drummer drop a stick during that softer passage and she may or may not hear it. It doesn't mean that she has better or worse hearing than the next person only that she hears differently than I do.


My point is, I don't get why it is so unbelievable to some people why *I* may be able to hear something that they can't. They instigate arguments and make long meandering posts that go off and on topic so many times that you eventually lose track of what the original question was. They seem to think that someone is challenging their intelligence when all it really boils down to is someone simply hearing differently than they do.

Why does Joe feel the need to chastise Frank because Frank hears differently than Joe? Is it some kind of mental disorder? Is it a sense of inadequacy? Or is it simply a closed mind that feels that every human being *must* experience everything the exact same way?

Me, well, I feel like you should listen to your song however you want to and damn what the naysayers say.

afterburnt

holy cow, what happened here?

ZLTFUL

afterburnt wrote: »

holy cow, what happened here?

You asked a good question.
Several people gave you good explanations.
Some troll hopped in and told those folks who gave you good, valid explanations that they were wrong.

That's the gist of it.